Stealing items off the internet

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Leegal said:
Yes it is stealing – the “fault” of the creator is not a license to steal and alter his copyright.

And yes, you should remove all illegally downloaded content (and those you have “tweaked” the registration), and use a file “shredder.”
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If you lighten your candle with another candle of another person, are you stealing the “fire” or the “light”?
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
If you lighten your candle with another candle of another person, are you stealing the “fire” or the “light”?
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I have made similar thoughts in my post.

examples can’t be perfect analogues. One would say that fire is a natural good and can’t be owned or stolen, very much unlike an authored work so your example doesn’t work with intellectual property and piracy. But here goes:

If you lighten your candle with another person’s candle you are “stealing” the potential match you would have lit from the match maker factory and the match seller. I am sure it sounds a bit off and that’s why I think piracy is not necessarily immoral (and the term “piracy” itself is way more bad than the reality it describes).

So, if every matchbox had a ‘terms of service’ or ‘end user’s license’ and prohibited you to share the fire lit with these matches then yes, law would consider your example as stealing.

But would that be immoral or sinful? That’s another story
 
Xlainamo said:
I don’t consider illegitimate downloading same as ‘stealing’. When I download a piece of software I have deprived some programmers from my money I would otherwise had given. However it is not the same as stealing a loaf of bread or a book because software is not expendable and your neighbour still has his own copy.

Here is a not-so-pefect example: is sharing a book in common with friends same as ‘stealing’ from the authors and merchants who sell this book? If I deny giving you my book, you will be forced to buy it and support the intellectual owners. But is this right?

Morally it’s exactly the same situation, only that legally it’s not. Software has ‘terms of service’ while books don’t. Sharing copyighted movies/software/ebooks/mp3 online is stealing while sharing objects is not.

Many people feel that the Internet is a kind of communal life. Someone buys something and all his virtual family/roommates/neighbours can benefit from it. For me, it’s not immoral.

In any case I think it’s a sin to download stuff that you can afford otherwise, or that you plan to buy. Many people download stuff that they would not buy in any case. If they could not download them for some reason, they would still NOT have bought them. So essentially they don’t deprive anyone of their money.

Some people might illegally download a software, and if they find it good and useful, they buy a legal copy from the store to thank and support the programmers. So if you really appreciate the work you have downloaded, please consider this.
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Yeah I have the same feeling. Is it immoral for me to play a copyrighted on on an mp3 player and show it to my friend? Further, is it immoral for me to put it on my computer AND my mp3? If a astranger came up to me and said can I listen to that song on your mp3? is that immoral? If a stranger came up to me on the internet and said can I listen to that song?

Where do you draw the line? because if it is immoral to sahre a song, or a book, or a game, ETC than im sure weve all broken that.

often times I Try out a game- then buy it - is THAT immoral? I just dont see where you draw the line
 
Xlainamo said:
I have made similar thoughts in my post.

examples can’t be perfect analogues. One would say that fire is a natural good and can’t be owned or stolen, very much unlike an authored work so your example doesn’t work with intellectual property and piracy. But here goes:

If you lighten your candle with another person’s candle you are “stealing” the potential match you would have lit from the match maker factory and the match seller. I am sure it sounds a bit off and that’s why I think piracy is not necessarily immoral (and the term “piracy” itself is way more bad than the reality it describes).

So, if every matchbox had a ‘terms of service’ or ‘end user’s license’ and prohibited you to share the fire lit with these matches then yes, law would consider your example as stealing.

But would that be immoral or sinful? That’s another story
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Suppose my neibors candle was lightened by a lightning or by pre-historian methods?
The program is there in the author’s ends and is safe and no one is going to steal it! But why does he put in the internet in the first place, knowing of the people«s atitudes which are around, people WHO WANT EVERYTHING FREE? Like Open Office, Apache, Phh, mysql, Ubuntu, and so on?

Why is he goind into the lion’s den with his own wishes of other people’s desires.

I use a lot of free stuff like, Drupal, Joomla, Apache, and the free stuff of net. I am a webmaster and have several sites all made with free studd.

Now when someone come trying to sell me somehting, I see him like a dressed person in a nudist beach…I do not feel like defending his clothes.

Actually, nowaadyas we generally do not need to buy anything to surf the net.

Now, comes the hard part of it that is songs and movies.
But these guys are earning a lot with downloads. Should I have moral qualms and think that I am going to hell because they did not earn a few more bucks on top of the hundresds of millions that they earned.

Should I be their gardian angel or can they defende themselves?
Fort Knox gold I think does not have its doors open fully and freely to the public…
 
You can’t steal something that isn’t scarce. When someone steals a book from me, I am deprived of the use of that book. When someone copies a file from my computer, I’m not deprived from the use of that file. Hence, it is not stealing.
 
Sorry, it’s a sin.

Someone put it like this: “If you were the copyright holder, would you be happy if someone was pirating your software?”

Suuure, I bet you’d LOVE that. 🙂

The software is licensed. You have permission to use it in a particular way.
  • You do not have permission to use it without paying for it first.
  • You do not have permission, unless the copyright holder grants it to you, to make copies for distribution.
But you can get a good lesson in how the Devil works when you examine your perceptions honestly as your mind tries to find excuses for what your conscience is against 😃
 
I can see what your saying but no one is saying where to draw the line! If disobeying the copyright law meant jail time, WE WOULD ALL BE IN JAIL. For example I have rights to 1 copy of a song that I bought, and I put it on my computer AND my ipod. EVERYONE DOES THAT. no one makes a fuss about it either!
 
I am a big fan of Japanese manga. BLEACH, NARUTO etc. Individual volumes can be quite costly. My collection isn’t very big and I love the stories. So I started browsing the internet for online scans. And I loved it. I kept saying to my self that I’ll be buying them eventually, so it’s not stealing.

But you know what? I don’t know what God has planned for the future. I don’t know if I’d ever be able to buy all these volumes. It is essentially stealing when you get down to it. You are breaking the law. You might not support it, you might disagree with copyright law etc., but copyright law is not immoral.

I will continue to read manga. But only when I’ve paid for the volumes.
 
Copyright law IS immoral. It creates scarcity where there is none. Copyright and patent law is a modern phenomenon. Is it suddenly a sin now whereas it wasn’t in years past?
 
Copyright law may be modern, but our duty to obey civil authority is ancient. At the end of the day downloading films, books etc., is done only for our own entertainment. Let’s not beat around the bush. You don’t need to watch the latest Harry Potter film or play the old Pokemons on a Nintendo Gameboy Emulator to live. It’s done for your own selfish entertainment.

Do not try to hide it behind a mask of virtue, fighting against the big, evil tyranny of the faceless corporations. It’s simply a self desire for entertainment.
 
Xlainamo said:
I don’t consider illegitimate downloading same as ‘stealing’. When I download a piece of software I have deprived some programmers from my money I would otherwise had given. However it is not the same as stealing a loaf of bread or a book because software is not expendable and your neighbour still has his own copy.
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So you are saying it is more similar to defrauding a workman of his wages. And you think that is morally acceptable?
 
smndtupidisaftr said:
Copyright law IS immoral. It creates scarcity where there is none. Copyright and patent law is a modern phenomenon. Is it suddenly a sin now whereas it wasn’t in years past?
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Indeed, knowledge is free and any attempts to control it will always fail. 👍
 
Laudate_Dominum said:
Copyright law may be modern, but our duty to obey civil authority is ancient. At the end of the day downloading films, books etc., is done only for our own entertainment. Let’s not beat around the bush. You don’t need to watch the latest Harry Potter film or play the old Pokemons on a Nintendo Gameboy Emulator to live. It’s done for your own selfish entertainment.
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Civil law is not the same as God’s law. I only care about following the latter. I only follow the former out of convenience. So can you make a case, other than referring to civil law, as to why filesharing is immoral?
Do not try to hide it behind a mask of virtue, fighting against the big, evil tyranny of the faceless corporations. It’s simply a self desire for entertainment.
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Let’s not build up a straw man, especially a false one.
 
Dale_M said:
So you are saying it is more similar to defrauding a workman of his wages. And you think that is morally acceptable?
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Huge difference. That would be a breach of contract. With regards to copyright, you can’t impose a contract on an uninvolved 3rd party. It’s not the same situation at all.
 
POSTER HERE

How can I know what to dow with so many opinions? How can I know what is opinion and what is actual moral ground.

Please base your comments on logic and moral law.

I did find one thing that I want to ask: Some of you where saying its depriving the makers of their money- but what if I wasnt going to buy it? there is no difference for the maker
 
marceleonidas said:
Hey,
Im a teen guy and I love computers- I got my first one when I was 9.
well in the past couple of years ive started to learn how to download, distribute, copy, even do a little hacking myself. In that time ive downloaded 35+ games, just as many songs and soundtracks a few movies etc etc

Its not been till recently that Ive really thought about wether it is immoral or not. The funny thing is I HAVE been to confession about it- but my confessor wasnt quite sure how to elaborate- he wasnt really in the computer era if you get what I mean

Some things I use for good- e.g I will download soundtracks for movies that are sometimes spiritual 😛

Say to install a program, I have to tweak it- maybe to get around a registraion requirement- Is it stealing? because im technically changing the program. Maybe its just the fault of the creator to not protect his program

If I do stop should I remove all downloaded content???
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I’m afraid that yes it would be considered stealing, and something to confess to a priest,and do no longer. Pray to God to help you stop and repent of this properly,and keep to your resolution 🙂 and yes it would be good to remove all the downloaded content.

Your soul and eternity is more important 🙂

God bless you.
 
People who create deserve to be paid, plain and simple. Taking it from them, even if their product is in electronic form, is theft. Take that to the limit and there is no reason to create software or music when the product will be stolen by anyone with the ability.
 
Georgia said:
People who create deserve to be paid, plain and simple. Taking it from them, even if their product is in electronic form, is theft. Take that to the limit and there is no reason to create software or music when the product will be stolen by anyone with the ability.
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Such an archaic view of the digital world.
There is this thing called donations and advertising both of which outpace pay per item in every situation.

Also please look up the different ways of marketing, one which continues to be the best is the effect of the recommendations of those who have used it. More people using/watching/listening something = higher percentage someone that can donate will come by, and higher hit rate for advertisement.

This view is naturally consistent when one seeks out freeware and opensource products. The patent/copyright is supported by those ignorant to technology for one reason or another, the facts all prove that this way of creating products is obsolete.
 
marceleonidas said:
but what if I wasnt going to buy it? there is no difference for the maker
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I have discussed this example in my first post. I don’t think it’s immoral but this is my personal opinion and conscience.

I think it is better to conserve our money for a better use (charities) than buying a digital good that we might not need or appreciate.

However this is a grey point. Law and morality do not depend on ‘would had done’ situations, so please try to have a sober judgment, be honest to yourself about this and don’t use it as an excuse to lighten your conscience. We should always consider that our downloads might have done some people poorer than they deserved.

And also don’t be greedy. If you want a spiritual life don’t go after things you don’t really need.
 
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