'Steer clear' of triumphalism, Belgian cardinal tells African bishops [CC]

[Catholic_Press]

In an interview with La Stampa’s Vatican Insider, Cardinal Godfried Danneels directed pointed words to bishops in Africa. Advising "everyone to steer clear of all forms of …

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[dans0622]

“Africans may also experience a situation similar to ours. Then they might call us up to see how we dealt with it. To get some useful tips.”

And what would those tips be? Does the Cardinal think the Europeans have dealt with it in a way worthy of imitation?

Dan

 

[SWolf]

“Africans may also experience a situation similar to ours. Then they might call us up to see how we dealt with it. To get some useful tips.”

And what would those tips be? Does the Cardinal think the Europeans have dealt with it in a way worthy of imitation?

Dan

Some African bishops tell us: you are pagans. You wiped everything out. But I remember Belgium being full of vocations, there were huge seminaries and novitiates being built up until the 60s. Christian families did everything they could to give their children a sense of belonging in the Church. But we started seeing the faith dwindling in boys and girls aged 17-20. This wounded them it caused great suffering. Is it right to say it was their fault and that the parents were not good Christians? No, that’s not the case

What happened in the 60’s? And what did Belgium do to react that is worthy of emulation? Perhaps the Cardinal could take a full notebook of tips from Africa home with him and emulate what THEY are doing.

 

[Scottgun]

 

[ARSpade]

“Africans may also experience a situation similar to ours. Then they might call us up to see how we dealt with it. To get some useful tips.”

And what would those tips be? Does the Cardinal think the Europeans have dealt with it in a way worthy of imitation?

Dan

Well, I assume the Cardinal could offer tips like, “Make sure you search people for tape recorders before meetings.”

 

[dans0622]

Well, I assume the Cardinal could offer tips like, “Make sure you search people for tape recorders before meetings.”

Ouch.

It’s not as though I think he’s wrong about “Africa” or “Africans” having to face the same problems that have swept across Europe over the past 50 years but the “they’ll ask us for tips” notion, while Europe (Belgium in particular) is a pile of ecclesiastical rubble…that takes some nerve.

Besides, it’s not as though “Africa” is a bed of roses now…

Dan

 

[Bballer32]

Honestly, I would say we should let the African Bishops tip-toe the lines of “Triumphalism” because they are still going to get more done than most of the Bishops in Europe.

 

[GEddie]

While the faith is arguably gasping for breath in some of the European countries, it is evident that racial chauvinism is not.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ARSpade]

While the faith is arguably gasping for breath in some of the European countries, it is evident that racial chauvinism is not.

ICXC NIKA

He is Belgian.

One of my historical areas of interest, back when I was a MA candidate, was the dirty little wars in West and South Africa.

When a Belgian, like here, starts talking about Africa like this the hair on my neck goes up. In the Congo they made slavery in the American South look the slaves had a union and modern regulatory conditions.

And then they made it better by suddenly saying, “Hey, people we’ve brutally oppressed and kept uneducated on purpose. We suddenly decided having you as a colony is bad. So, bye! Have fun running a country! We’d like to keep our stake in your mineral wealth though. thanks!” I swear they did it just to turn around and say, “Well, we always knew they weren’t capable of running things.”

So I don’t trust them. I especially don’t trust the cardinal in question.

 

[LongingSoul]

He is Belgian.

One of my historical areas of interest, back when I was a MA candidate, was the dirty little wars in West and South Africa.

When a Belgian, like here, starts talking about Africa like this the hair on my neck goes up. In the Congo they made slavery in the American South look the slaves had a union and modern regulatory conditions.

And then they made it better by suddenly saying, “Hey, people we’ve brutally oppressed and kept uneducated on purpose. We suddenly decided having you as a colony is bad. So, bye! Have fun running a country! We’d like to keep our stake in your mineral wealth though. thanks!” I swear they did it just to turn around and say, “Well, we always knew they weren’t capable of running things.”

So I don’t trust them. I especially don’t trust the cardinal in question.

One wonders whether some institutions teach history with the purpose of preserving centuries old rivalries and divisions between peoples, to bolster their claim to the moral high ground.

 

[ARSpade]

One wonders whether some institutions teach history with the purpose of preserving centuries old rivalries and divisions between peoples, to bolster their claim to the moral high ground.

Centuries?

Ex-Belgian Congo became independent in 1960 and the Belgians were involved in the place for years later. This isn’t ancient history here. And, as shown by the Cardinal’s speech and Cardinal Marx’s words, many still look down upon Africa.

“To get some useful tips.” Yes, it surely is the European White Man’s Burden to help out those ignorant Africans who don’t know any better.

 

[LongingSoul]

Centuries?

Ex-Belgian Congo became independent in 1960 and the Belgians were involved in the place for years later. This isn’t ancient history here. And, as shown by the Cardinal’s speech and Cardinal Marx’s words, many still look down upon Africa.

“To get some useful tips.” Yes, it surely is the European White Man’s Burden to help out those ignorant Africans who don’t know any better.

When was the Rosa Parkes incident? It’s not just the Europeans who looked down on Africans.

 

[ARSpade]

When was the Rosa Parkes incident? It’s not just the Europeans who looked down on Africans.

Yeah, I’ll take being forced to the back of a bus over having a company cut off my kid’s hands over missing my rubber production quota any day of the week.

 

[clem456]

patronizing

 

[LongingSoul]

patronizing

I think this constitutes a breaking of forum rules since criticising clergy is out. I wouldn’t call the African bishops ‘patronising’ as you have. Sure they used words like pagans to describe western Catholicism and ‘decaying’… but as always, the media presents the global Church as divided and angry which it isn’t. Just as in this article in which the nameless journalist reported Cardinal Daneels as going on some hostile offensive against the Africans when its so obvious from the original interview it linked too, that he was merely responding very reasonably to the interviewers barbed questions.

I think you should offer an apology for calling the African bishops ‘patronising’ for their accusations of ‘pagan’ and ‘decaying’ and really take time to read the original context of the African Bishops words and the generous context of Cardinal Daneels words. I know I would certainly be reported for calling clergy ‘patronising’ but I haven’t reported you since I’m not that type of person. I’m just letting you know in a nice way. Don’t call African bishops ‘patronising’. It’s not Catholic etiquette, clem 456.