Sterilization followed by confession?

[Corki]

Not lip service but rather an act of the will. You decide you believe what the Church teaches.

Admitting you want to reform your life is easy when it doesn’t require any hard sacrifice from you. You got sterilized so that you can engage in sex without the consequences. After you confess you still are able to engage in sex without the consequences. Mission accomplished, and you don’t have to worry about going to hell. Hard decision, right? I think that more is required to get to actual attrition. Perhaps abstaining for 2 weeks a month or more. And really abstaining isn’t the problem, for most it is the fear of pregnancy, so maybe having the procedure reversed is the best route.

There are three things needed. 1) Contrition - an act of the will, as you put it. 2) Confession - to a priest in the Sacrement and 3) restitution - abstinence or reversal are possible ways to perform restitution but not the only ways. This is up to the individual’s confessor to decide.

 

[Bookcat]

restitution - abstinence or reversal are possible ways to perform restitution but not the only ways. This is up to the individual’s confessor to decide.

Restitution refers to sins contrary to justice…such as theft.

The person does need though to repent. And a person who ‘sterilizes’ themselves intending to later go to confession…is is a difficult situation. They will need to truly repent…which would include contrition: Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.” CCC 1451

(which may not though involve “emotion” but certainly requires the will…a sincere conversion)

Which of course with grace can happen…

But one should not presume on such… and one should do what was proposed.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

God knows what is in your heart. He knows if it is lip service or you truly repent.

God knows our heart, but the problem is that *we * don’t.

The person who goes through with a planned sterilization has put themselves between a rock and a hard place.

 

[cviolette]

There are three things needed. 1) Contrition - an act of the will, as you put it. 2) Confession - to a priest in the Sacrement and 3) restitution - abstinence or reversal are possible ways to perform restitution but not the only ways. This is up to the individual’s confessor to decide.

The bolded I certainly do not think it is wise to go above and beyond what my confessor says at the expense of the marriage. My marriage already has major problems if I decided either to reverse tubal or abstinence, my marriage would be over.

 

[joclucsylv]

If you don’t agree with Catholic Church teaching then you should look for a new Church. Anglican/Episcopal Churches don’t have a problem with birth control.

Well, I may as well leave the church. People who use ABC have already been condemned to hell several people on this board.

 

[Bookcat]

Well, I may as well leave the church. People who use ABC have already been condemned to hell several people on this board.

God alone knows the outcome of a soul…

But we do invite all who are engaged in objectively gravely sinful actions such as the use of contraception …not to “leave the Church” but to conform themselves with great courage to the teachings of the Church.

I invite a reading (to the end) of this homily of Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html

Also note that we love you and desire your true life. Pope Benedict XVI too I am sure would not want them to “leave the Church” but would propose to them to seek more and more the face of Christ …reading sacred Scripture and participating in prayer and other things they can still participate in… praying and seeking the grace they and we all need…

 

[1ke]

Well, I may as well leave the church.

This is NEVER an option.

People who use ABC have already been condemned to hell several people on this board.

This is not true.

 

[joclucsylv]

This is NEVER an option.

This is not true.

Yes it is 1ke. I understand people are just trying to convey the truth of the church, but truly when it comes to ABC people on this board are judgemental. You know what?? I am a cradle Catholic who has always loved my Church and the truth of Catholicism is only shining through to me right now. Life is a process and so is understanding the Catholic life. It is unfair for people on this board to stand in judgement of people trying to understand.

You are right. Leaving the Church is not an option. I LOVE it way to much. It is who I am.

 

[Bookcat]

Have some judged others? Some may have.

But it is important to distinguish between judging a person (condemning him…)…

and judging the objective nature of the actions.

I may no know if Tom is guilty of murder in such and such a case …but I certainly can say the action of murder that he did was objectively gravely wrong.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.277 He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;278
• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. and if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.279

 

[1ke]

Yes it is 1ke. I understand people are just trying to convey the truth of the church, but truly when it comes to ABC people on this board are judgemental.

I’m not sure who you refer to, and hopefully not me. Because I have not judged you.

To judge the morality of an action against Church teaching is not to judge the person.

The objective grave nature of an act does not mean it is subjectively a mortal sin. Full knowledge and free will are also components of mortal sin.

And, further, even if someone does commit a mortal sin, that does not mean they are going to Hell. They can repent and be reconciled.

Only God can judge if an objectively wrong action on the part of a person is, in fact, a sin. That’s not our place.

Unfortunately, when an issue is personal-- as I believe this is in your case-- people often take things personally that are not intended that way. Stating the facts about Church teaching isn’t judgment.

 

[runningdude]

Not lip service but rather an act of the will. You decide you believe what the Church teaches.

Admitting you want to reform your life is easy when it doesn’t require any hard sacrifice from you. You got sterilized so that you can engage in sex without the consequences. After you confess you still are able to engage in sex without the consequences. Mission accomplished, and you don’t have to worry about going to hell. Hard decision, right? I think that more is required to get to actual attrition. Perhaps abstaining for 2 weeks a month or more. And really abstaining isn’t the problem, for most it is the fear of pregnancy, so maybe having the procedure reversed is the best route.

The thing is, there are indeed consequences to sterilization. The consequences, often unanticipated, are the fruits of the sin.

These consequences are not totally horribly - they can lead to regret and imperfect contrition - the conditions necessary for absolution!

(Granted, one will still live with these consequences following absolution, but the eternal debt is paid)

 

[joclucsylv]

I’m not sure who you refer to, and hopefully not me. Because I have not judged you.

To judge the morality of an action against Church teaching is not to judge the person.

The objective grave nature of an act does not mean it is subjectively a mortal sin. Full knowledge and free will are also components of mortal sin.

And, further, even if someone does commit a mortal sin, that does not mean they are going to Hell. They can repent and be reconciled.

Only God can judge if an objectively wrong action on the part of a person is, in fact, a sin. That’s not our place.

Unfortunately, when an issue is personal-- as I believe this is in your case-- people often take things personally that are not intended that way. Stating the facts about Church teaching isn’t judgment.

Nope, definitely did not feel judgement from you. Quiet the opposite as a matter of fact. The info you posted on the Chuch fathers has made me closer to accepting the teaching of the church. I have to say that I don’t like it though. I see a baby and don’t have the wooey gooey feeling of wanting to hold it. As a matter of fact it is quite the opposite. It makes me NOT want another one. I have 2 that I love dearly and am doing my best to bring them up in the teaching of the Church as my parents did me. I DON’T want anymore. Ya, ya…I have heard it from all of you. It’s not about me. Does it make me a bad person that I feel deep in my soul that I don’t want another one?

 

[1ke]

Does it make me a bad person that I feel deep in my soul that I don’t want another one?

No. And the Church doesn’t require you to.

This is how you feel today. It might not be how you feel forever. The decision of when and whether to have more children is for you and your husband to discern in prayer.

 

[Corki]

Restitution refers to sins contrary to justice…such as theft.

The person does need though to repent. And a person who ‘sterilizes’ themselves intending to later go to confession…is is a difficult situation. They will need to truly repent…which would include contrition: Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.” CCC 1451

(which may not though involve “emotion” but certainly requires the will…a sincere conversion)

Which of course with grace can happen…

But one should not presume on such… and one should do what was proposed.

I typed ‘restitution’ but mean ‘reparation’.

CCC

1491 The sacrament of Penance is a whole consisting in three actions of the penitent and the priest’s absolution. The penitent’s acts are repentance, confession or disclosure of sins to the priest, and the intention to make reparation and do works of reparation.

 

[joclucsylv]

No. And the Church doesn’t require you to.

This is how you feel today. It might not be how you feel forever. The decision of when and whether to have more children is for you and your husband to discern in prayer.

Oh yes it’s a forever feeling. I am 38 my baby is 4 and I am not starting over. Not everyone has the “mother” instict of wanting a million babies behind her. YUCK is what I say to that. Just being honest.

 

[KWR_1]

There is only one Church. Suggesting that a person leave the Church and join a group that does not have the fullness of truth is highly irresponsible and, frankly, grave matter.

And, God’s truth is immutable. Joining some other religous group under the guise of then being morally in the clear is a delusion.

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
2 Every branch in me that bears no fruit he cuts away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes to make it bear even more.
3 You are clean already, by means of the word that I have spoken to you.
4 Remain in me, as I in you. As a branch cannot bear fruit all by itself, unless it remains part of the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me, with me in him, bears fruit in plenty; for cut off from me you can do nothing.
6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a branch – and withers; these branches are collected and thrown on the fire and are burnt.
7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for whatever you please and you will get it.
8 It is to the glory of my Father that you should bear much fruit and be my disciples.
9 I have loved you just as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.
11 I have told you this so that my own joy may be in you and your joy be complete.
12 This is my commandment: love one another, as I have loved you.
13 No one can have greater love than to lay down his life for his friends.
14 You are my friends, if you do what I command you.
15 I shall no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know the master’s business; I call you friends, because I have made known to you everything I have learnt from my Father.
16 You did not choose me, no, I chose you; and I commissioned you to go out and to bear fruit, fruit that will last; so that the Father will give you anything you ask him in my name.
17 My command to you is to love one another.

 

[Bookcat]

I typed ‘restitution’ but mean ‘reparation’.

CCC

Ok

The penance is particular to that.

One can add of course others…

Prayer, fasting, almsgiving, mortification, indulgences…

CCC

Satisfaction

1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”

1460 The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent’s personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear. Such penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all. They allow us to become co-heirs with the risen Christ, "provided we suffer with him."63

The satisfaction that we make for our sins, however, is not so much ours as though it were not done through Jesus Christ. We who can do nothing ourselves, as if just by ourselves, can do all things with the cooperation of “him who strengthens” us. Thus man has nothing of which to boast, but all our boasting is in Christ . . . in whom we make satisfaction by bringing forth “fruits that befit repentance.” These fruits have their efficacy from him, by him they are offered to the Father, and through him they are accepted by the Father.64

 

[LaSainte]

Yes, the teaching on contraception is a matter of morals.

The teaching of the Church on contraception is intimatey and strictly connected with revealed truth. Specifically, it is connected with the revealed truth about the Sacrament
of Marriage.

covered.

Clearly established doesn’t mean that you will get 100% agreement by taking a poll of the current bishops. It has nothing to do with consensus. The teaching of the Church on contraceptives has been clearly estabished over the centuries. It is clearly an infallible teaching.

(BTW, the opinions of lay theologians or even priests aren’t relevant in a discussion of infallibility. It is the teaching of the ordinary magisterium - the Pope and the Bishops.)

It is not as clear as you would like to believe. Here is a very well-written and researched article about infallibility itself, how it relates to contraception and how there is absolutely no agreement by theologians etc. as to whether or not the teaching on contraception a.) CAN be infallibly taught (hint: just beig related in some way to the Bible’s teaching on the sacrament of marriage doesn’t even come CLOSE to fulfilling the requirements as far as being related to revealed truth) and also b.) IF It meets the requirements of something that can be infallibly taught, has it been CLEARLY ESTABLISHED that it has in fact been infallibly taught?

All of this is according to the definitions that the magisterium itself has established.

ts.mu.edu/content/54/54.3/54.3.6.pdf

 

[Corki]

It is not as clear as you would like to believe. Here is a very well-written and researched article about infallibility itself, how it relates to contraception and how there is absolutely no agreement by theologians etc. as to whether or not the teaching on contraception a.) CAN be infallibly taught (hint: just beig related in some way to the Bible’s teaching on the sacrament of marriage doesn’t even come CLOSE to fulfilling the requirements as far as being related to revealed truth) and also b.) IF It meets the requirements of something that can be infallibly taught, has it been CLEARLY ESTABLISHED that it has in fact been infallibly taught?

All of this is according to the definitions that the magisterium itself has established.

ts.mu.edu/content/54/54.3/54.3.6.pdf

What is this “article”? It looks like pages scanned from a book. Who is the author, the source?