Sterilization followed by confession?

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One last thought, LaSainte. There a countless number of Catholics who feel like you and I. They aren’t going to speak up on this board. Sometimes we feel alone against the bombardment of exteme Catholicism. Number 1…being here is intimidating. Quite honestly, I graduated with a 3.8 from Univerisity and I have a hard time comprehending what some posts say. Sometimes, I have to read them more than once and still left :confused: Number 2…anyone new who comes to this board with questions such as ours is immediately bombarded with an intervention. One simple question is bombarded with doctrine, quotes from the Catechism and that still leaves the person all :confused: and feeling frustrated.:banghead: They leave and never return to the board because they can’t make heads or tails of what is being said. Finally number 3…there are the lurkers who are entertained by the threads. I dare say that perhaps they feel like us, but just don’t say anything.
But again, I understand this is Catholic Answers!! I am thankful for this site even though it causes frustration!! 🙂
Bonne journee LaSainte!! Aie foi en Dieu!! Il est misericordieux!!!
Hi,

I did not choose to reply this part of the reply with the other thread, as it was growing longer, and I choose to keep the replies short. Thank you for your understanding.

The use of the word extreme in identifying a Catholic who stands with the Apostolic authority of the Church/Magisterium [and if they dont stand with the Magisterium, how can they be Catholic in the fullest sense of the word? ] is quite misleading. Let me illustrate.

There was a man named Joe who loved to burn down houses. However, Joe would not burn down houses if there were people inside. Richard on the other hand, loved to burn down houses, but he would only burn down houses with peope inside them. Still another man, named Bobby, would not burn down houses at all. According to Joe both Richard and Bobby are extreme because Richard only burns down houses with people inside, and Bobby won’t burn them down any houses at all, but Joe burns them down with no people inside them. Therefore Joe thinks he is in the middle , but clearly he is not becuase the real norm is not to burn down houses at all.

God bless.
 
What would you call it? I mean this sincerely. There are those people and posters who believe or at least accept everything the Church teaches. This group has been tagged with the terms “faithful Catholics”, “authentic Catholics”, “Cathoics who follow the Magesterium”, etc.

“Cafeteria Catholic” used to be considered a badge of honor by those who considered themselves Catholic by orientation but not bound by the teachings of the Church. Now it seems that people are offended by the term.

You use the term "dissent’. Is “dissenting Catholic” a more appropriate term?
Call it whatever you want. I know what/who I am and so does God. You and I are both Catholic and you are not better than me or am I better than you.
 
Indeed. And if the Church were to teach that <random sexual activity that does not have its end in procreation/union> is okay, it would open the door for Cafeteria Catholics to say, “See! The Church cannot make up its mind! Either sex is only for procreation/union, or it’s not. And since they permit , then they really haven’t thought out their teaching very well. And this is proof that it’s man-made. And this gives me permission to disobey it.”
Ahhh but here is where Faith enters the picture. The Church cannot err in doctrinal matters of Faith and Morals. This has been stated time and time and time and time and time and time again. This will never be taught in the Church, becuase doctrines never change.

So your situation is an impossible and irrevelant one. And the Church is not man-made, it is Divinely instituted by Jesus Christ who is God and Man. And if you disobey the Church you do so at at your own peril. For to disobey the Church is to disobey God.

God bless.
 
Like I told you in a previous post, if I end up by burning in hell for enjoying my sex life with my husband then I will be playing cards with ALOT of other Catholics in hell. (to be honest, it completely makes no sense to me how a person who doesn’t ejaculate in the vagina at every sex act would end up in hell with Hannibal Lector. Does the thought of that even make any sense???)
It is not the act itself that puts your soul at risk. It is the disobedience to natural law, and the impiety against the Church and God that stems from you trivializing the issue, especially the graveness of it. To say nothing of the wrong you do your brothers and sisters in the faith who struggle to live by the law of God every day, whom you uncharitably ridicule as “extremists.”
I have just realized through this thread that there are extremists in every religion. There are extremists in the muslim faith, and there are extremists in any protestant faith, and yes there are extremists in the Catholic faith. Here on this board you will of course find the extremists in the Catholic faith. I hold nothing against the extremists in our faith, because those are the ones who try to keep us grounded and they are the ones I seek for advice even there are many times roll my eyes at many posts and chuckle. You know what??? Even though I don’t follow the teaching of how to fulfill the marital act, I feel God’s blessings everyday and that he loves me. My anxiety for such a trivial rule has left me.
There is nothing “extremist” about adhering to the truth as it has been revealed both through natural and supernatural revelation. And there is no value in moderation where it comes at the expense of goodness.

The words are all right there – in the Bible and the Catechism and the works of the Church fathers. You do not even have to read them; familiarize yourself with Aristotelian/Thomist metaphysical inquiry and you will be able to discern the same truths on all your own. That is the supreme goodness of God: He gave us reason that we might know the truth, and will that we might act in accordance with it. It is not given to you to “feel” which aspects of that law to apply to you. We are called to exercise our reason, not our intuition; to know God individually, not obey Him selectively.
One last thought, LaSainte. There a countless number of Catholics who feel like you and I. They aren’t going to speak up on this board. Sometimes we feel alone against the bombardment of exteme Catholicism. Number 1…being here is intimidating. Quite honestly, I graduated with a 3.8 from Univerisity and I have a hard time comprehending what some posts say. Sometimes, I have to read them more than once and still left Number 2…anyone new who comes to this board with questions such as ours is immediately bombarded with an intervention. One simple question is bombarded with doctrine, quotes from the Catechism and that still leaves the person all and feeling frustrated. They leave and never return to the board because they can’t make heads or tails of what is being said. Finally number 3…there are the lurkers who are entertained by the threads. I dare say that perhaps they feel like us, but just don’t say anything.
But again, I understand this is Catholic Answers!! I am thankful for this site even though it causes frustration!!
Bonne journee LaSainte!! Aie foi en Dieu!! Il est misericordieux!!!
I understand that natural law is not an easy thing to comprehend. But if you struggle with it, we are here to help you in that regard, as well. And that you do not understand this or that teaching is not cause sufficient to violate it.

Natural law synthesizes a lot of philosophers’ works: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas, to name a few. But you can get a much simpler and much shorter treatment of the issue in Edward Feser’s The Last Superstition, which is as enlightening a read as it is an enjoyable one. It is probably available at your local library, or if not, copies can be purchased cheaply online. It was Feser’s book that synthesized all the teachings in a way that, to me, was so completely and simply rational that I could no longer deny or rationalize away the truth that has been revealed to us, and which compelled me to join the Church.
Ike…am I offending the Church or am I offending God. Rules are man made. Here you are 1ke telling me I will go to hell.
These rules are not man-made. Where they are not divinely revealed, they are revealed by the exercise of reason – that is, they are facts which we discover about the world, not irrational value judgments arising from personal preference.

Everything in nature serves an end. The human sexual configuration serves the end of procreation. Therefore, the sexual act, in order to be good, must serve this end. Because it is the law which God has ordained and to violate it is to be in rebellion against God.

It seems to me no one here has said that you or LaSainte will go to Hell. That would be rank presumption and, incidentally, also an act of impiety. What we are saying is that to behave in a manner contrary to natural law is to gravely imperil your soul; to persist in that error, obstinately and in full knowledge of the Church’s contrary teaching, is to compound the graveness of the sin even further. We are warning you both away from a grave and sinful course of action.
 
Call it whatever you want. I know what/who I am and so does God. You and I are both Catholic and you are not better than me or am I better than you.
It’s not about that. Do you follow the ALL of the Magisterium of the Church and obey God? Or do you not follow ALL of it and disobey God? That’s what is boils down too.

You cannot be a Cathlolic in the fullest sense of the word and dissent from any Church Teaching. Period.

God bless.
 
Pope Benedict XVI speaking of Baptism and the dialogue of do you believe…do you reject…etc which we renew too at Easter…and even every time really we make the sign of the cross…

"Yes, Baptism inserts us into communion with Christ and therefore gives life, life itself. We have thus interpreted the first dialogue we had with him here at the entrance to the Sistine Chapel.

Now, after the blessing of the water, a second dialogue of great importance will follow. This is its content: Baptism, as we have seen, is a gift; the gift of life. But a gift must be accepted, it must be lived.

A gift of friendship implies a “yes” to the friend and a “no” to all that is incompatible with this friendship, to all that is incompatible with the life of God’s family, with true life in Christ.

Consequently, in this second dialogue, three “noes” and three “yeses” are spoken. We say “no” and renounce temptation, sin and the devil. We know these things well but perhaps, precisely because we have heard them too often, the words may not mean much to us.

If this is the case, we must think a little more deeply about the content of these “noes”. What are we saying “no” to? This is the only way to understand what we want to say “yes” to.

In the ancient Church these “noes” were summed up in a phrase that was easy to understand for the people of that time: they renounced, they said, the “pompa diabuli”, that is, the promise of life in abundance, of that apparent life that seemed to come from the pagan world, from its permissiveness, from its way of living as one pleased.

It was therefore “no” to a culture of what seemed to be an abundance of life, to what in fact was an “anticulture” of death. It was “no” to those spectacles in which death, cruelty and violence had become an entertainment.

Let us remember what was organized at the Colosseum or here, in Nero’s gardens, where people were set on fire like living torches. Cruelty and violence had become a form of amusement, a true perversion of joy, of the true meaning of life.

This “pompa diabuli”, this “anticulture” of death was a corruption of joy, it was love of deceit and fraud and the abuse of the body as a commodity and a trade.

And if we think about it now, we can say that also in our time we need to say “no” to the widely prevalent culture of death.

It is an “anticulture” manifested, for example, in drugs, in the flight from reality to what is illusory, to a false happiness expressed in deceit, fraud, injustice and contempt for others, for solidarity, and for responsibility for the poor and the suffering; it is expressed in a sexuality that becomes sheer irresponsible enjoyment, that makes the human person into a “thing”, so to speak, no longer considered a person who deserves personal love which requires fidelity, but who becomes a commodity, a mere object.

Let us say “no” to this promise of apparent happiness, to this “pompa” of what may seem to be life but is in fact merely an instrument of death, and to this “anticulture”, in order to cultivate instead the culture of life. For this reason, the Christian “yes”, from ancient times to our day, is a great “yes” to life. It is our “yes” to Christ, our “yes” to the Conqueror of death and the “yes” to life in time and in eternity.

Just as in this baptismal dialogue the “no” is expressed in three renunciations, so too the “yes” is expressed in three expressions of loyalty: “yes” to the living God, that is, a God Creator and a creating reason who gives meaning to the cosmos and to our lives; “yes” to Christ, that is, to a God who did not stay hidden but has a name, words, a body and blood; to a concrete God who gives us life and shows us the path of life; “yes” to the communion of the Church, in which Christ is the living God who enters our time, enters our profession, enters daily life.

We might also say that the Face of God, the content of this culture of life, the content of our great “yes”, is expressed in the Ten Commandments, which are not a pack of prohibitions, of “noes”, but actually present a great vision of life.

They are a “yes” to a God who gives meaning to life (the first three Commandments); a “yes” to the family (Fourth Commandment); a “yes” to life (Fifth Commandment); a “yes” to responsible love (Sixth Commandment); a “yes” to solidarity, to social responsibility, to justice (Seventh Commandment); a “yes” to the truth (Eighth Commandment); a “yes” to respect for others and for their belongings (Ninth and 10th Commandments).

This is the philosophy of life, the culture of life that becomes concrete and practical and beautiful in communion with Christ, the living God, who walks with us in the companionship of his friends, in the great family of the Church. Baptism is a gift of life.

It is a “yes” to the challenge of really living life, of saying “no” to the attack of death that presents itself under the guise of life; and it is a “yes” to the great gift of true life that became present on the Face of Christ…"

~Pope Benedict XVI

From vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20060108_battesimo_en.html
 
Ahhh but here is where Faith enters the picture. The Church cannot err in doctrinal matters of Faith and Morals. This has been stated time and time and time and time and time and time again. This will never be taught in the Church, becuase doctrines never change.

So your situation is an impossible and irrevelant one. And the Church is not man-made, it is Divinely instituted by Jesus Christ who is God and Man. And if you disobey the Church you do so at at your own peril. For to disobey the Church is to disobey God.

God bless.
Huh? :confused:

I am certainly not proposing that anyone disobey the Church, Little One.
 
It’s not about that. Do you follow the ALL of the Magisterium of the Church and obey God? Or do you not follow ALL of it and disobey God? That’s what is boils down too.

You cannot be a Cathlolic in the fullest sense of the word and dissent from any Church Teaching. Period.

God bless.
OK. Then I am not Catholic. I will be searching for another church service to attend this weekend. Boy…wait till I tell my parents that it’s the people on Catholic Answers who told me I wasn’t Catholic. They will be pleased that that is why I have chosen to leave the chruch!!!
 
OK. Then I am not Catholic. I will be searching for another church service to attend this weekend.
Then you will be creating a god in one’s own image, rather than conforming your image to God’s.

“Searching for another church service” is another way to re-design morality so that it fits with what you want God to say. As if!

If there is a God, and if he revealed himself to us, does it not stand to reason that he’s going to teach us some things

that we don’t want to hear?

And that he’s going to call us to do things

that we don’t want to do?

If you go find a church that tells you what you want to hear and lets you do what you want to do, then you have just found the Church of the Almighty Self. :eek:
 
OK. Then I am not Catholic. I will be searching for another church service to attend this weekend. Boy…wait till I tell my parents that it’s the people on Catholic Answers who told me I wasn’t Catholic. They will be pleased that that is why I have chosen to leave the chruch!!!
The sin of PRIDE has sent many souls to hell!
I, MYSELF, who have lived for so short a time, hereby set MYSELF over and against this Church which has existed for almost two thousand years; and declare that I, MYSELF have an understanding of Truth superior to Its.”

One excuse is as good as another, i suppose. 🤷
 
Huh? :confused:

I am certainly not proposing that anyone disobey the Church, Little One.
PRmerger,

I was confused by your reply, by the last sentence. I should have PM’d you about it before replying back to it. I am sorry and ask for your forgiveness on this. My apologies. I should have been reading a bit more carefully. By God’s grace I will be more careful in the future.

I thought it was contradictory, I should have realized that you were in agreement.

God bless.
 
PRmerger,

I was confused by your reply, by the last sentence. I should have PM’d you about it before replying back to it. I am sorry and ask for your forgiveness on this. My apologies. I should have been reading a bit more carefully. By God’s grace I will be more careful in the future.

I thought it was contradictory, I should have realized that you were in agreement.

God bless.
Fuhgetaboutit. :aok:
 
Then you will be creating a god in one’s own image, rather than conforming your image to God’s.

“Searching for another church service” is another way to re-design morality so that it fits with what you want God to say. As if!

If there is a God, and if he revealed himself to us, does it not stand to reason that he’s going to teach us some things

that we don’t want to hear?

And that he’s going to call us to do things

that we don’t want to do?

If you go find a church that tells you what you want to hear and lets you do what you want to do, then you have just found the Church of the Almighty Self. :eek:
Hey…it was littleone who told me I wasn’t Catholic because I was dissenting from the teachings of the church. So, if I am not Catholic because my husband doesn’t from time to time ejaculate in my vagina…well…I may as well leave then. So to bad. I love the church.
 
OK. Then I am not Catholic. I will be searching for another church service to attend this weekend. Boy…wait till I tell my parents that it’s the people on Catholic Answers who told me I wasn’t Catholic. They will be pleased that that is why I have chosen to leave the chruch!!!
I never said you were not Catholic. I said you were not Catholic in the “FULLEST sense of the word.”

And you cannot tell your parents that the people on Catholic Answers told you, you were not Catholic. One becuase it is not true and secondly I do not represent ALL the people on here.

Sounds like you are looking for a reason to be leaving the Church. If you are going to leave the Church leave becuase you decide to, and not becuase you blame the Church or those in the Church for your leaving. Realize that it is you who are choosing to leave the Church and no other.

God bless.
 
Hey…it was littleone who told me I wasn’t Catholic because I was dissenting from the teachings of the church. So, if I am not Catholic because my husband doesn’t from time to time ejaculate in my vagina…well…I may as well leave then. So to bad. I love the church.
That’s not your only choice, jocluc.

You can, of course, leave, and then you will be looking for a god that conforms to your wishes. This will create much despair in your life–I guarantee it. You will be succumbing to the words hissed millenia ago by the serpent in the Garden to Eve, “Did God really say… Nah…he didn’t really say that. That was a man-made rule”

Or, you can conform you will to God’s and stay in the Church, receive the Sacraments, be abounding in God’s grace…and you will find much happiness.
 
It’s not about that. Do you follow the ALL of the Magisterium of the Church and obey God? Or do you not follow ALL of it and disobey God? That’s what is boils down too.

You cannot be a Cathlolic in the fullest sense of the word and dissent from any Church Teaching. Period.

God bless.
Hey…it was littleone who told me I wasn’t Catholic because I was dissenting from the teachings of the church. So, if I am not Catholic because my husband doesn’t from time to time ejaculate in my vagina…well…I may as well leave then. So to bad. I love the church.
I include my post, and nowhere did I saw you are not a Catholic. Seems like you are misreading the post. So your other reply is irrevelant becuase it is based on an inaccurate reading of my post.

God bless.
 
That’s not your only choice, jocluc.

You can, of course, leave, and then you will be looking for a god that conforms to your wishes. This will create much despair in your life–I guarantee it. You will be succumbing to the words hissed millenia ago by the serpent in the Garden to Eve, “Did God really say… Nah…he didn’t really say that. That was a man-made rule”

Or, you can conform you will to God’s and stay in the Church, receive the Sacraments, be abounding in God’s grace…and you will find much happiness.
Well, when littleone tells me that I am not Catholic, what other options do I have lol!!! I not as good as you all…so I am thinking the Assemblies of God may be calling me. 👍
 
Whenever I start a sentence with “surely God would…” or “surely God wouldn’t…” that is my first clue I am walking right down a sinful path. It’s time to go back to the sure norm of faith and figure out what it is I am trying to rationalize. It could be a vice, it could be an ommision of virtue, it could be a transgression of a precept of the Church, it could be a transgression of the Ten Commandments. It might be easy to spot or it might be diffcult, because I am trying to rationalize it.

We’ve been given the truth and the objective teaching of the Church precisely because our own judgment is flawed by the effect of Original Sin.
  • So, the couple who is infertile says “surely God wouldn’t…” to justify using IVF.
  • The homosexual says “surely God wouldn’t…” to justify homosexual relationships.
  • The fornicator says “surely God wouldn’t…” to justify sleeping with his/her girlfriend/boyfriend or cohabiting with them.
  • The adulterer says “surely God wouldn’t…” to justify their divorce and remarriage.
  • And, the one who wants to contracept says “surely God wouldn’t…” to justify it.
Surely God would. He has. He’s given us the Way, the Truth, and the Life. It’s up to us to follow it.
 
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