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joclucsylv
Guest
What you have just counseled me is grave sin on your part. You should NEVER EVER counsel ANYONE to leave the church!!!
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B
Bookcat
Guest
One who has been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into full communion…is a Catholic.
They may not be living as such…but they cannot erase the indelible mark of baptism. And the Church loves them and walks besides them … and seeks to help them come to follow Christ and live as he gives us to live…and to enjoy the* true life* that we have in him and thus in the Church. A life that will be fully known only when we see him in the face in heaven and in the time of the resurrection.
Just as a person who is conceived in the womb of a human mother…is a human person…and remains such…no matter how they choose do not live according to their dignity as a human person…so to a Catholic remains a Catholic even when they are not fully embracing what they are…or living contrary rather to it by a life of mortal sin and willful error.
That being said…they can still choose hell…which would be a choice greatly mourned… and that choice begins in life where that choice can begin to be made via living in mortal sin…just as a person once conceived can choose all sorts of ways to act contrary to their dignity and the good of their life…embracing all sorts of self-destructive behaviors
Let our Faith be Adult Faith:
"Paul illustrates the same idea of a necessary renewal of our way of being human in two passages of his Letter to the Ephesians; let us therefore reflect on them briefly. In the Letter’s fourth chapter, the Apostle tells us that with Christ we must attain adulthood, a mature faith. We can no longer be “children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4: 14). Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth. The truth about the world and about ourselves becomes visible when we look to God. And God makes himself visible to us in the Face of Jesus Christ. In looking at Christ, we recognize something else: truth and love are inseparable. In God both are inseparably one; it is precisely this that is the essence of God. For Christians, therefore, truth and love go together. Love is the test of truth. We should always measure ourselves anew against this criterion, so that truth may become love and love may make us truthful. "
Pope Benedict XVI
Full text vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
They may not be living as such…but they cannot erase the indelible mark of baptism. And the Church loves them and walks besides them … and seeks to help them come to follow Christ and live as he gives us to live…and to enjoy the* true life* that we have in him and thus in the Church. A life that will be fully known only when we see him in the face in heaven and in the time of the resurrection.
Just as a person who is conceived in the womb of a human mother…is a human person…and remains such…no matter how they choose do not live according to their dignity as a human person…so to a Catholic remains a Catholic even when they are not fully embracing what they are…or living contrary rather to it by a life of mortal sin and willful error.
That being said…they can still choose hell…which would be a choice greatly mourned… and that choice begins in life where that choice can begin to be made via living in mortal sin…just as a person once conceived can choose all sorts of ways to act contrary to their dignity and the good of their life…embracing all sorts of self-destructive behaviors
Let our Faith be Adult Faith:
"Paul illustrates the same idea of a necessary renewal of our way of being human in two passages of his Letter to the Ephesians; let us therefore reflect on them briefly. In the Letter’s fourth chapter, the Apostle tells us that with Christ we must attain adulthood, a mature faith. We can no longer be “children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4: 14). Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth. The truth about the world and about ourselves becomes visible when we look to God. And God makes himself visible to us in the Face of Jesus Christ. In looking at Christ, we recognize something else: truth and love are inseparable. In God both are inseparably one; it is precisely this that is the essence of God. For Christians, therefore, truth and love go together. Love is the test of truth. We should always measure ourselves anew against this criterion, so that truth may become love and love may make us truthful. "
Pope Benedict XVI
Full text vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html
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Fink
Guest
It`s nothing to laugh about…Well, when littleone tells me that I am not Catholic, what other options do I have lol!!! I not as good as you all…so I am thinking the Assemblies of God may be calling me.
As the saying goes: “You may end up laughing on the other side of your face.”.
God forbid!
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1ke
Guest
Fornication, adultery, contraception, masterbation, homosexual sex acts, polygamy, artificial conception (IVF, etc), prostitution, pornography, and other acts (i.e. bestiality, and other places we won’t go) are all immoral for the **same **reason.
If one of them is moral, the rest are also.
If one of them is moral, the rest are also.
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Little_One0307
Guest
What part of this are you misreading?Well, when littleone tells me that I am not Catholic, what other options do I have lol!!! I not as good as you all…so I am thinking the Assemblies of God may be calling me.
You cannot be a Catholic in the fullest sense of the word and dissent from any Church Teaching. Period.
K I think I might have got carried away, but I really want to see where in the world I said you were not Catholic.
God bless.
J
joclucsylv
Guest
L
Little_One0307
Guest
No,
Only the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders leave an indellible mark on ones soul.
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PRmerger
Guest
I find it curious that you persist in creating these false allegations.Well, when littleone tells me that I am not Catholic, what other options do I have lol!!! I not as good as you all…so I am thinking the Assemblies of God may be calling me.
*No one *has declared that you are destined for hell.
No one has ever said that they are better than you.
Perhaps it makes it easier for you to disobey the Church by creating these straw men?
Are you a bit dramatic in your arguments with your husband? Does he say things like, “I prefer that you don’t put onions in this casserole, honey.” and you respond with, “FINE!! You hate my cooking! Well, then, since you’ve just said that I should never cook for you again, then you can just enjoy eating solo for the rest of our married life. So THERE!”
(No need to respond to the above scenario. It’s hypothetical only of course.)
B
Bookcat
Guest
The Sacrament of Marriage can be said to give a “quasi-character”. It is not a “character” like baptism and confirmation …
The Sacrament of Marriage only lasts so long as both spouses live in this life.
J
joclucsylv
Guest
If you must know…I despise drama and I am not a dramatic person at all. My husband loves, loves, loves me!!!
R
Redratfish
Guest
It is? I thought it was simply telling you what you already believe and have stated yourself?
I don’t get it?
You yourself said "Well since Im not Catholic (which you are believe it or not, disenting/cafeteria Catholic, but still Catholic), Ill go find another Church, I think Assemblies of God is calling me.
How is saying, well Anglicans allow the use of contraception counseling you to leave?
Also, if it is in ones best interest to leave the Church (to avoid desecration, and compounding mortal sin) then I don’t see its bad? Excommunication is done for this purpose, to prevent more harm for the individual.
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1ke
Guest
It is never in anyone’s best interest for them to leave the Church.
I suggest you read some of the Church’s teaching on the matter.
And yes, it is a sin to encourage someone to do so.
Excommunication does **not **mean one is no longer Catholic, and is **not **an encouragement for a person to leave. It is the opposite.
Excommunication is a medicinal penalty designed to press upon the Catholic the seriousness of their situation and to encourage repentance and the resumption of the sacramental life.
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PRmerger
Guest
Well, your posts here seem to exhibit a flair for the dramatic and a bit of pretending not to understand things.
To wit:
forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=8071328
'kay. Non-sequitur, but okay.My husband loves, loves, loves me!!!
Has anyone suggested here that he doesn’t?
J
joclucsylv
Guest
What the heck is bestiality?
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Redratfish
Guest
I never meant to leave the Church like that, was saying that we were not telling her to leave. simply saying that she is not following Catholic teachings, but instead Anglican and other protestant ones. Telling her that she isn’t following Catholic beliefs isn’t a sin is it? If it seems like Im telling her to leave, I did not mean it that way at all.
I’m kicking myself for the wording I used, and what I thought was being said (just woke up I apologize for this
). I meant leaving the Church during communion. I thought she was being told not to recieve communion (thats why I mentioned desecration and doubling mortal sins).I know that is what excommunication is for, and it also prevents (or should) prevent consumption of the Eucharist (which was my point).
Sorry for the mix up
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vsedriver
Guest
Do you really love the Church? Completely and unconditionally? No, I highly doubt it from your posts. You love on your terms. However, I do understand where you are coming from. For years I thought the Church’s views on sex did not apply to me. But when I had the opportunity to really study the Church’s teaching I had not a light bulb go on over my head but a darn nuclear bomb.
The Church is right to teach that for sexual activity to be moral and holy it must take place between a married man and woman and be open to life. I so wish I had had this understanding when I was first married.
I think it is a far greater sin for those who are not following Church teaching to sway others to their way of thinking.
J
joclucsylv
Guest
Who is teaching others to sway to their way of thinking??
I still don’t understand how NFP is being open to life when the couple is DELIBERATELY not having relations during fertile times. That is not being open to life!!!
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PRmerger
Guest
Sex with a beast. It follows from the paradigm that “God wouldn’t care if we ____” that God wouldn’t care if we have sex with a beast.
(Assuming that it’s with a consenting adult beast, I suppose.
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