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That_one_guy
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I don’t disagree with you at all.
However,one necessarily effects the other.Being pro-life is more than just about babies.It’s about health issues and the factors influencing all life.
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However,one necessarily effects the other.Being pro-life is more than just about babies.It’s about health issues and the factors influencing all life.
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cathybramble
Guest
mass production of animals is destroying the environment. but meat, dairy and eggs are consumer-driven industries. it is our desire for lots of inexpensive animal based foods that brought about factory farms. so it would seem to make sense that eating those things very moderately would be the answer.
as for “putting our energy into saving the unborn” just couple of thoughts… first of all, it takes nothing from the pro-life movement to be vegan. trust me, i do both of them simultaneously. among my catholic peers i do not feel a need to be as vocal about the unborn, because i don’t like to preach to the choir.
we are not off the hook for being concerned about animals simply because babies are being aborted. vegans and veggies comprise a very small percentage of the population (i think it’s 5%), by comparison to something like 40% of america being catholic… what more do you feel the 5% of vegans (many of whom are already very pro-life), can do, that 40% of catholics who are dogmatically obligated to protect the unborn, have not been able to do?
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thistle
Guest
Who is talking about vegans and vegetarians? I’m talking about everyone. I do not believe that so much money should be spent on saving animals while there are children being murdered (aborted) and hundreds of millions of people (many of them children) starving in the world.
As for being vegan or vegetarian that is your choice. God allows us to eat meat and I will continue to eat meat. I really like the taste. The answer to saving the world is not becoming a vegan or vegetarian!
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redhen
Guest
Question; do you slaughter animals yourself to eat their flesh?
If not, do you think spending a day in a slaughterhouse might change your mind?
Or do you, like most meat eaters, try not to think of these horrors, because you don’t want it to interfere with the sensory pleasure it brings to your taste buds?
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thistle
Guest
As a matter of fact I have been many times in a slaughter house. I have never seen anything cruel done or suffering inflicted.
God said we can kill animals and eat their meat and he lets me enjoy the taste of a juicy steak. I think his position trumps yours.
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That_one_guy
Guest
The answer to saving the world is compassion.(i.e.,being Christ-like.But, I’m sort of biased in this direction any way.)Being pro-life is more than just unborn babies.It extends to all life.
Environmentally, veganism seems to be the logical conclusion.It doesn’t seem to effect one directly or instantly.But, the indirect consequences of our actions are effecting our planet.If people eat less meat,there will be less of a demand.Which will lead to smaller factory farms and a return to more humane styles of farming.Which will mean a decrease in animal waste getting into our food and water,and an increase in healthy grains and alternative clean fuel sources.
And more meat for you, which will be healthier and raised more humanely.
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That_one_guy
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That_one_guy
Guest
Pope John Paul II
Man’s Responsibility for Life
To defend and promote life, to show reverence and love for it, is a task which God entrusts to every man, calling him as his living image to share in his own lordship over the world: 'God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth’ (Gen 1:28).
–Evangelium Vitae, Section 42 (1995)
Man’s Responsibility for Life
To defend and promote life, to show reverence and love for it, is a task which God entrusts to every man, calling him as his living image to share in his own lordship over the world: 'God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth’ (Gen 1:28).
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The biblical text clearly shows the breadth and depth of the lordship which God bestows on man. It is a matter first of all of dominion over the earth and over every living creature, as the Book of Wisdom makes clear: 'O God of my fathers and Lord of mercy... by your wisdom you have formed man, to have dominion over the creatures you have made, and rule the world in holiness and righteousness' (Wis 9:1,2-3). The Psalmist too extols the dominion given to man as a sign of glory and honor from his Creator: 'You have given him dominion over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen, and also the beasts of the field, the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, whatever passes along the paths of the sea' (Ps 8:6-8).
As one called to till and look after the garden of the world (cf. Gen 2:15), man has a specific responsibility towards the environment in which he lives, towards the creation which God has put at the service of his personal dignity, of his life, not only for the present but also for future generations. It is the ecological question--ranging from the preservation of the natural habitats of the different species of animals and of other forms of life to 'human ecology' properly speaking --which finds in the Bible clear and strong ethical direction, leading to a solution which respects the great good of life, of every life. In fact, 'the dominion' granted to man by the Creator is not an absolute power, nor can one speak of a freedom to 'use and misuse', or to dispose of things as one pleases. The limitation imposed from the beginning by the Creator himself and expressed symbolically by the prohibition not to 'eat of the fruit of the tree' (cf. Gen 2:16-17) shows clearly enough that, when it comes to the natural world, we are subject not only to biological laws but also to moral ones, which cannot be violated with impunity.
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cathybramble
Guest
God does not say we are entitled to destroy the environment, create antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria, and abuse animals in order to enjoy a juicy steak.
enjoy your steak, pork, chicken, whatever, but the way this is being done today is harming EVERYONE. hold these large-scale meat producers responsible for the waste they create and require them to be humane to animals. otherwise His position is not what you think it is.
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Ruthie
Guest
OK, I watched the HSUS video. It’s a pile of… propaganda.
They carefully make you think that the following are facts, without presenting any real proof.
You will note that I am not defending the treatment of those poor beasts. I’m just pointing out how carefully they arranged their short film to propagandize.
Wayne Pacelle is a notorious animal rights activist. HSUS lost a lot of credibility with those of us who really care about animal welfare when they allowed themselves to be infiltrated by PeTA members. (Do a Google search on “animal rights” vs “animal welfare” - including the quotes - and you will find arguments for both sides, and a few balanced articles.)
Factory farming can be done humanely. And family farms can treat animals inhumanely.
My local cattle stockyard has its own water treatment plant for the runoff. I don’t know of any family farms that do.
It is not a black-and-white situation.
God bless us, great and small,
Ruthie
They carefully make you think that the following are facts, without presenting any real proof.
- That many cattle destined for slaughter are sick or crippled.
- That dead cattle are not washed before processing.
- That cattle are abused all day, every day - that it’s a rare moment when you won’t see a steer being mistreated.
You will note that I am not defending the treatment of those poor beasts. I’m just pointing out how carefully they arranged their short film to propagandize.
Wayne Pacelle is a notorious animal rights activist. HSUS lost a lot of credibility with those of us who really care about animal welfare when they allowed themselves to be infiltrated by PeTA members. (Do a Google search on “animal rights” vs “animal welfare” - including the quotes - and you will find arguments for both sides, and a few balanced articles.)
Factory farming can be done humanely. And family farms can treat animals inhumanely.
My local cattle stockyard has its own water treatment plant for the runoff. I don’t know of any family farms that do.
It is not a black-and-white situation.
God bless us, great and small,
Ruthie
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cathybramble
Guest
cruelty is inherent to factory farming. pigs in crates so small they can’t turn around is always cruel. repeated insemination of animals beyond what their bodies can sustain, de-beaking of poultry, cutting the teeth of baby pigs with pliers… while it’s true all of these things can be done in family farms, and i’m sure it makes you feel better to think that the cruelty you see in the video clips is unusual… in factory farming, there is no way around being inhumane.
the very fact that the HSUS had to get involved to stop the cruelty in that slaughterhouse (it must have been actually going on, the place got closed down because of it)… tells you that the agencies that should be protecting animals against such cruelty - has broken down. understand - the USDA is an agency to promote agriculture and protect its interests (i.e. its profits). i don’t know why the FDA isn’t more involved in protecting our food supply, i suppose they are too busy approving new drugs for the diseases that are being caused by our excesses and lack of stewardship.
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That_one_guy
Guest
Friday Dec 19 2008
EPA exempts farms from reporting toxic fumes
WASHINGTON (AP)–The nation’s farms no longer have to report to authorities the toxic, smelly fumes released from manure.
The Bush administration issued a regulation Dec. 12 exempting farms from reporting releases of hazardous air pollution from animal waste to federal, state and local authorities. The rule applies specifically to the gases from manure that are often responsible for odor problems.
hpj.com/archives/2008/dec08/dec22/EPAexemptsfarmsfromreportin.cfm
EPA exempts farms from reporting toxic fumes
WASHINGTON (AP)–The nation’s farms no longer have to report to authorities the toxic, smelly fumes released from manure.
The Bush administration issued a regulation Dec. 12 exempting farms from reporting releases of hazardous air pollution from animal waste to federal, state and local authorities. The rule applies specifically to the gases from manure that are often responsible for odor problems.
hpj.com/archives/2008/dec08/dec22/EPAexemptsfarmsfromreportin.cfm
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cathybramble
Guest
factory farms don’t have to comply with the clean water act, either
ens-newswire.com/ens/nov2008/2008-11-03-10.asp
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HollyDolly
Guest
:egyptian: Yes,we are stewards of God’s earth. God wants us to
look after the animals and plants. He put them here for our use, but we must use these resources wisely. Not dump pollants
in the rivers, but find some way if possible to recycle them.Take care of the land so that his other creatures have some place to live.That’s why you have people having encounters with courgars or other wild animals, because as more and more homes are built in areas that were once fields and woods. the animals like rabbits,deer,etc get driven from their homes.
If you have animals on a farm, treat them humanely.Give them food, shelter and water,don’t crowd them together,like workers in a factory or an office building, they’re not automotons and neither are people. Be kind to your pets, don’t beat or abuse them
because you are angry with the way life has treated you.
So the answer is yes.
look after the animals and plants. He put them here for our use, but we must use these resources wisely. Not dump pollants
in the rivers, but find some way if possible to recycle them.Take care of the land so that his other creatures have some place to live.That’s why you have people having encounters with courgars or other wild animals, because as more and more homes are built in areas that were once fields and woods. the animals like rabbits,deer,etc get driven from their homes.
If you have animals on a farm, treat them humanely.Give them food, shelter and water,don’t crowd them together,like workers in a factory or an office building, they’re not automotons and neither are people. Be kind to your pets, don’t beat or abuse them
because you are angry with the way life has treated you.
So the answer is yes.
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thistle
Guest
I will continue to enjoy my steak and other meats.
When I go to a butcher’s shop or supermarket I don’t hire a private investigator to find out how the piece of meat I want was reared and killed. The meat is in the butcher’s shop or supermarket and I buy it. End of story.
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cathybramble
Guest
no, i think the bottom line really is that some people’s love of meat does not supersede the need for clean air and water and safe food for everyone else. some people’s greed does not supersede the responsibility of stewardship that all christians are called to - whether it’s in humane treatment of animals, avoiding biohazards, clear-cutting forests, or what have you.
at one time the world thought it was okay to put young children in factories too. people bought these products because they were available, not knowing or caring how they were made, unwittingly becoming accomplices to child abuse.
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That_one_guy
Guest
Go ahead.
But,it’s not the end of the story.
You can close the book.But,the abuse continues.
Pro-life goes beyond unborn babies.It is ALL life…
I might sound a little ‘staunch’,but,I don’t think that there really is any room for compromise in Christianity.Whether we are merely making excuses for our own sin, or indirectly enabling another to sin.
from
utilitarian.net/singer/by/20060322.htm
No less a religious authority than Pope Benedict XVI has stated that human “dominion” over animals does not justify factory farming. While head of the Roman Catholic Church’s Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the future pope condemned the “industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds.” This “degrading of living creatures to a commodity” seemed to him “to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible.”
I’m just sayin’…
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That_one_guy
Guest
Go ahead.
But, it’s NOT the end of the story.You’ve just closed the book.
If you have a conscience then maybe you should seek out a butcher that does get their meat from a more humane source.Otherwise you may be indirectly contributing to animal abuse and neglect.
This is one of those issues when ignorance is bliss.If I didn’t know what I know. It would be easier.But, I do know.
Pope Leo XIII, on becoming patron in 1870 of the French Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA):
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‘As always the Church has placed herself, through the voice of her pontiff, at the head of this movement. It is for her to direct it wherever she can make herself heard.’
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‘His Holiness rejoices to know that the object of your Society is in perfect accord with the doctrine which the Church has always taught and the Saints have always followed, leaving us innumerable beautiful examples of compassion and tenderness.
The fact that the Nations have not always followed the precepts of the Church and the example of the Saints moves the Sovereign Pontiff all the more to favour all that tends (while reserving supreme honour to the King of Creation) to foster respect for these other creatures of God, which Providence forbids us to exploit without concern and enjoins us to show wisdom in our use of them …
Therefore the August Pontiff trusts that you will find faithful and efficient fellow-workers in the priests of God, since it is their duty to conform to the teaching of the Church and the example of the Saints.
It is for them nobly to train souls in sentiments of enlightened gentleness and fostering care and guidance, so that they may offer to the animals refuge from every suspicion of roughness, cruelty or barbarism, and lead men to understand from the beauty of creation something of the infinite perfection of the Creator.’
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‘His Holiness is pleased at being called upon, as head of the Church, for his support in so noble an undertaking, which has the lofty object of caring for the lives and treatment of animals and which at the same time endeavours to eradicate from the hearts of men barbarous and cruel tendencies.’‘St Francis was led to love all things which he knew had the same origin as he, and in which he recognised the goodness of God. For he followed his Well-Beloved everywhere and in every trace of Him to be founbd in His creatures, he made of all things a ladder to reach His throne.’
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thistle
Guest
What absolute rubbish. You are living in a fantasy world then!
So before you buy a pair of shoes (or accept as a gift) you research to make sure the leather is from a cow that was fairly treated, or if you buy any item of clothing (or accept as a gift) you research to know that wool is from a sheep that was fairly treated or that the item if made overseas was not made by slave child labour?
I assume you have done that with ever item you wear. If not then don’t be a hypocrite.
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That_one_guy
Guest
Believe it or not…
I can’t check on the status of the leather work gloves they pass out at work,though.
It’s not easy to sort this stuff out.And I recognize that we are allowed to utilize animals for clothing and such.I don’t myself.
AS for living in a fantasy world.That’s what my athiest acquaintances say,too.
I just think we should all do the best we can.
If this causes you to be angry,then maybe there is something you need to address.Otherwise,it wouldn’t be such a big deal.
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