Stigmatist's Video - What are your thoughts?

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There is no point in continuing - TheHolyTrinity found and posted an academic journal that repeated Dr. Castañón’s credentials. This is independent verification worthy of trust, certainly. The matter is settled. I will, however, indulge in some final words.
First, let me say that I entered this forum months ago in an effort to protect Catholic parishioners from people whom I felt were being deceptive.
Your concern is noted, though hopelessly condescending.
This entire issue is about verifying a claim. Ron and Tim sell a video (among other things) entitled “Science Tests Faith.” Well, you can’t have credible science without an expert ensuring the the principles of science are applied to testing the phenomena in question. The ONLY expert listed on Tim Francis’s “You Shall Believe” website is Dr. Castañón.
Be that as it may, he is not the only expert listed in any of the relevant literature. Appartently, you are limiting yourself to the information that you can obtain only from internet jockeying. You infer from the silence on other experts that Dr. Castañón is more central to the investigations than he really is. You overstate his importance. (There are, in fact, a host of experts involved besides Dr. Castañón.) One can now plainly see how the argument from silence leads to illicit conclusions. More on the argument from silence shortly.
So I began investigating him. Despite a long list of alleged academic credentials and direct questioning of the people involved, I could not find a shred of evidence to support his claims. Instead of admitting that this is a huge problem…I am met with accusations that I am making “arguments from silence.” When someone makes a claim to truth, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. It is not my obligation to prove it is untrue. Is that clear? THEY have made fantastic claims…not me. I am simply showing in great detail that there is absolutely zero reason to believe those claims.
In an argument, the burden of proof lies on the claimant. In this argument, there are two claims being made: I am making the claim that there is reason to trust Dr. Castañón about his stated credentials, and you are making the counter claim that there is no reason. Both of us have a burden of proof since both of us are making claims. To support your claim, you have adduced nothing more than arguments from silence. As I have said, these arguments are fallacious. One cannot formally conclude from the silence of Y about X that X is not true. This is especially true when you are apparently limiting your inquiry to what you can obtain from internet jockeying. There are plenty of reasons why acquiring the information we are seeking would not be amenable to Google search.

I had an argument very similar to this one concerning a Eucharistic miracle in Lanciano, Italy. It was reported that one of the consulted scientists wrote an article about his findings, and it was published in an Italian journal of science. My interlocutor searched and searched for this article online but turned up nothing. He, therefore, claimed that the article did not exist. I, on the other hand, was not convinced. Unfruitful internet searches are not, by themselves, suggestive of anything. I eventually found the article through a contact I acquired in Italy. It was not easy. The article is now readily available on the relevant Wiki page thanks to my (low-tech) efforts.

The point is that I am sure you think your lack of findings is impressive, but it really is not.

To your credit, the strongest argument you have is the lack of cooperation from Dr. Castañón himself, but I am lead to think that he perceived your inquiry - its tone, wording, etc. - to be offensive and he responded in kind. This, too, is also an argument from silence.
Accompanying lab documentation? What in the world are you suggesting? Castañón sent stuff to a lab to be tested (a service that was PAID for) and then corresponded about the results. Is there anything special he did here that you or I are incapable of doing?
In theory, no. However, just because anyone can do such a thing does not mean anyone (generally) does. As stated above, a relevent independent source has been adduced that has repeated his credentials, so my reliance on indirect evidence is now superfluous, but I will continue it here only to make a philosophical point.

To make this point, let us return to my earlier example. You meet someone, and you strike up a conversation with him.You learn he hs a PhD in forensic studies, and before your friendly chat, he was reading a lab report concerning a substance he is examing for a case. Now, you may say that anyone can possess such a document, and that may be true, but not anyone (generally) does. It is not exactly mainstream reading material. It is specialized. So some people are more likely than others to possess it. The probability of his being truthful is made higher in light of a corroborating indirect evidence. It paints a picture.

In short, your epistemology is simply flawed.
I repeat - That does nothing at all to support his academic claims.
As shown above, false.

However, my previousl ine of argument is now superflous in light of TheHolyTrinity’s findings (and I am sure there are more such sources, I really have not bothered to look into the matter as closely as I have other aspects of the mystical phenomena).
 
Again, you must be kidding. I am sure you are right, but this is utterly different from how Dr. Castañón describes himself. The author decides what credentials to list on Amazon and he listed quite a few…
You stated earlier that Dr. Castañón was a scholar of renown. I simply said that he is not at all famous or well-known. I did not deny his stated accomplishments, which I am sure are real. There are certainly quite a lot of references to articles he wrote in the literature I have. Some of these articles can be found online. He still is, however, an obscure non-English speaking academic, despite what blurbs may say.

To conclude, I think I have shown where your arguments fail and why your dismissal of the indirect evidence is based on flawed epistemology. Not that it matters anymore when a relevant independent source was founded that repeated his credentials. I really do think the matter is settled, either way.

So if you insist on continuing your disagreement, despite TheHolyTrinity’s post above, we may just have to admit we are at an impasse. Cheers.
 
Windfish wrote: “You stated earlier that Dr. Castañón was a scholar of renown. I simply said that he is not at all famous or well-known. I did not deny his stated accomplishments, which I am sure are real.” and “He still is, however, an obscure non-English speaking academic, despite what blurbs may say.”

I do not dream for a moment that Dr. Castañón is a scholar of renown. I simply repeated what he apparently regularly says about himself based on bio entries on numerous websites, including Amazon (which would not be written without his consent).

So, let me get this right. According to you, Dr. Castañón is “an obscure non-English speaking academic” who has taught and lectured at universities across Europe and the U.S.and has over 400 scientific articles to his credit and has received an award from the United Nations. If you are not denying his stated accomplishments, then that indeed is what you are saying (paradoxical as it may be).

Here is the problem. His stated accomplishments make the case that he is a renowned scholar. You say his accomplishments are real, but that he is an obscure person who “is not at all famous or well-known.”

Certainly your logic book must have a term for trying to have something both ways. I am sure it is frowned upon.
 
(I hope you noticed and read both of my posts, Sgroh. It seems you have only responded to one. I believe the matter to be settled - my own arguments are sound, and TheHolyTrinity postsed an independent academic source repeating his credentials. Case closed. However, re: your latest response, you do not seem to understand that you can have a lot of accomplishments and still remain obscure. The fact remains that Dr. Castañón is no Neil Degrasse Tyson. It’s odd that your belaboring this point, though. It is of no logical import. Anyway, case closed. ;))
 
Forgive me for interjecting, but this is a bizarrely fascinating thread. Thank you to all of the participants. I enjoy the well-formulated arguments very much. 🙂
 
I will leave it to the readers of these 6 pages of debate to decide if they think this case is over.

Tim Francis personally called me multiple times and, in response to my numerous requests, told me he was going to find out when and where Dr. Castañón earned his alleged PhD. Despite his direct contact with Ron, he was never able to give me an answer.

Ron was willing to spend plenty of time writing me long e-mails in attempts to convince me of the sigmata…but he too would never answer those two simple questions.

Castañón himself was willing to waste hours of his time writing me a 14 page screed in English…again without ever answering the two simple questions. The content of that letter is wholly unlike anything you would expect from an academic of any station.

No smoke here, says Windfish. Just grumpy people having a bad day. This one Spanish article from 2009 mentioning research “guided” by Dr. Castañón clearly vindicates him of all suspicion - “Case Closed.”

I beg to differ. This has become a pet project of mine so I will continue to investigate. I encourage others to do the same. We are called to have faith in God. Windfish is willing to extend that same faith to people who sell things in his name. I am not. Nullius in Verba
 
What started this discussion was your concern regarding Dr. Castañón’s credentials. TheHolyTrinity provided an independent academic source that repeated what we already knew. It says he is a Bolivian doctor in neuropsychology. I have also provided arguments based on indirect evidence. Sgroh, the matter is settled. Not even Skepdic, the anus of internet -]skepticism/-] atheism, has called into question his chops.

Despite the presence of direct and indirect evidence, you are now moving the goal-posts (“Oh, this source is not good enough for me!”), and are you continuing to cling onto arguments from silence. I have dismantled these arguments already. Neither Tim Francis nor Ron Tesoriero knew the answer to your question, so their silence is inconsequential. And Dr. Castañón likely perceived your inquiry - its tone, wording, etc. - as offensive and responded in kind. To your credit, IF there was not any direct or indirect evidence, his lack of cooperation would be your strongest argument, but since we DO have such evidence, the firm explanation is that he didn’t like your tone, Mister! (Please, before you latch onto this like you did with my “bad day” joke, please know that I am being facetious, as I was with my "bad day comment. If you didn’t know, “Watch your tone, Mister!” is an American idiom of sorts repeated in all kinds of media, from cartoons to shows to movies. So, yeah, joke. And the “bad day” comment, too. Yeah.)

But let’s say, let’s just say, we cannot account for the silence of Francis (who didn’t know the answer, knowing Castanon about as well as I do), Tesoriero (who knows Castanon quite a bit better than I do, but still reasonably would not have a encyclopedic knowledge on the biography of a professional friend he sees once in while), and Castañón (who, of course, ought to know) himself. Let’s say it’s as weird as you say. I will give all that to you! GUESS WHAT? WE STILL HAVE INDIRECT (AND NOW DIRECT) EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HIS STATED CREDENTIALS. THIS IS WHY RELYING ON THE ARGUMENT FROM SILENCE IS BAD.
 
Yes, we all know there is no better way to shut up an offensive allegation than to rant about everything else in the world for 14 pages without answering the question. Why shut them up with the answer when you can leave your accuser thinking they are right? We all know how satisfying that is. Particularly after all the hard work of earning that PhD. I am sure if I earned a PhD I would probably list every accomplishment I ever had…but I would certainly never tell anyone when or where I earned my advanced degree. That is totally normal…not strange in the slightest.

It make take me months…but I look forward to solving this mystery. I will be sure to report back.
 
Another argument from silence!!! :rotfl:

But see, you MISSED THE WHOLE POINT ENTIRELY. I, for the sake of argument, conceded the strangeness of it all. (I do not think it is strange at all, btw, that two men who did not know the answer to your question did not provide an answer and why another man decided to dismiss your question in light of its perceived offensiveness). That parenthetical note aside, let’s say it was SUPER DUPER strange - it does not get more strange than SUPER DUPER! The great thing about logic is that it doesn’t care about strangeness - it just cares about validity and soundness. So even if I grant to you that it was strange, we still have evidence that more than warrants us in believing the title of one Castañón-Gómez. THIS IS WHY THE ARGUMENT FROM SILENCE IS A FALLACIOUS ARGUMENT. So yeah, let’s say it was strange - I mean, SUPER DUPER strange - but:
Mystery solved. 👍 (And it only took me a day. It would have taken only 30 seconds if I decided to actually read the posts in this thread before contributing.)
 
Enter in Google:
“Ricardo Gómez site:neurociencias.udea.edu.co/

Then translate the first result, download pdf and upload to translate.google.com and see (poor translation):

“The jobs and Releases neuropsychological begin in 1979 with the thesis first cohort Neuropsychological, submitted on the University Cotólica Boliviana “San Pablo” by Dr. Rene Calderon now Jemio, Past-President from the Partnership Latin American Analysis and Modification Behavioral and first President of College of Psychologists of Bolivia and guided Castañón by Dr. Ricardo Gómez, Bolivian Neuropsicofisiólogo.”

Windfish, thanks for helping on this. 👍 I’m kicking myself for not pursuing that post from the TheHolyTrinity member.:o

So to review. Myself, Steve, and Josh (Josh, correct me if you felt no concern.) all felt varying levels of concern for the questions regarding the credibility of Dr.Ricardo Castañón Gómez:
-it is unknown where and when he attained his PhD
-there is no record him working at a specific academic institution or company
-the many papers he published are unknown
-his books listed on Amazon are all self published

Seeing that Dr.Ricardo Castañón Gómez is cited in this journal, translated as “Neuropsychiatry and Neuropsychology journal Neuroscience”, it logically follows he has his PhD.

Comments?🙂

Gentlemen, thanks for the highly spirited debate.

After all this watch the moderator delete it as I’ve seen before. 😛
 
Windfish, join me on a little though experiment. Let’s imagine for a moment that Dr.Ricardo Castañón does NOT have a PhD. What argument could one offer to prove that fact without running afoul of your “argument from silence?”

Before we walk off into the sunset. Let me share a few more thoughts.

First, let’s take a moment to reflect on what a PhD is. Topuniversities.com defines it like this: A PhD is a globally recognized postgraduate academic degree awarded by universities and higher education institutions to a candidate who has submitted a thesis or dissertation, based on extensive and original research in their chosen field.

I would like to repeat that sentence: EXTENSIVE and original research. Given that the doctor claims in his letter to me to be clinical psychologist that would require him to write a considerable amount of peer reviewed research papers. When I questioned him on his claim to have 400 scientific papers to his credit he responded thusly:

"Because of the limits you have in languages, as I see, again you have made a big, big mistake:

If you have the original in Spanish it should say: ‘Ha escrito mas de 400 articulos de ciencia y divulgación’

It means some articles had scientific content, others are ‘readings’ that we prepare in special publications for students at Universities and others belong to the kind of information that we use in newspapers, articles for popularization, scientific information for everyone, as you have in your Sunday newspaper for example."

I repeat…the DOCTOR said I made a BIG BIG mistake when I suggested that his “400 scientific articles” were scholarly articles submitted to respected academic journals. He just meant they has some scientific content…you know, like when your child writes an article about tornadoes for his 5th grade class. If you think this sounds like the response of a clinical psychologist who wrote a dissertation to earn a PhD…then I have doubts you have ever spoken with an actual academic.

Now let’s reflect on the state of education in Bolivia. One in every seven children in Bolivia does not complete primary school. Over one million Bolivian citizens over the age of 15 are unable to read or write. When the doctor was growing up less than 1/3 of the adult population was literate The University of Bolivia—a consortium of eight public universities and one private university (the 1,500-student Bolivian Catholic University)–was the only postsecondary school that awarded degrees of any kind!

So…let’s pose a new question to the crowd (one I am working on). Was it even possible to earn a PhD in the specialized field of neuropsychology in Bolivia in the 80’s or earlier? I look forward to sharing that answer with you. Feel free to beat me to the punch.

A seasoned television reporter and a lawyer were given an opportunity to witness a miracle of God. Their goal was to share that miracle with the world and to prove that it occurred. Did they bring along a noted scientist from Australia? No. They hired an obscure non-English speaking academic (by Windfish’s admittance) who refuses to verify where he earned his degree. One can imagine God shaking his head and wondering why he even bothered.
 
UPDATE:

According to a researcher I called at the Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County, the Universtity of La Paz in Bolivia does not offer a PhD. in Neuropsychology and never has in the past.

Hmmmmmm.
 
An educational institution in Bolivia which sites Dr. Castanon:
utepsa.edu/v2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=281&Itemid=259
As shown in my last post where the excerpt was translated:
neurociencias.udea.edu.co/revista/PDF/REVNEURO_vol9_num2_7.pdf

I am interested in knowing what people who are not involved in this debate think about:
-Dr.Ricardo Castañón Gómez, given this evidence. I ask, do you think this man has his PhD? Is he misrepresenting himself?
-Regarding the alleged miracles, after reading the posts on this forum what issues do you see with them? Particularly Catalia Rivas, the old Fox News series “Science Tests Faith”, and Ron’s book Reasons to Believe?

A bit off topic here, but interesting. Catalia Rivas had some contact with Nancy Fowler. Here is a story as it pertains to “Our Loving Mother’s Children, Inc.”, written by somebody at the Archdiocese of Atlanta.

There have been many saints and lay people who have been observed to have contact with God. Although there are more academically highly qualified people than Dr. Castanon, I believe his knowledge of neuropsychology is sufficient to assess if these people are honest or not. On “Science Tests Faith” he gave numbers of cases he studied and how many were genuine. If he ever gets “Beyond Reason” translated to Engish, I will buy it.

Steve, having his birth date might help you further research him: August 25, 1948
I would guess one gets their PhD at around 25-30 years of age, so around 1975. Hard to track a PhD from 40 years ago, especially in a country like Bolivia which likely does not have academic records like those in North America and Western Europe. Note “Clinical neuropsychology is a sub-specialty of clinical psychology” so I would expect his degree is in the latter, since it would be from the mid seventies. Perhaps he did not even get his PhD from the University of San Andres in La Paz, in Bolivia. I asked TheHolyTrinity member how he or she knew he attended that university, but I got no response.
 
JohnJones, always thankful for your insights, research, and desire to find out the truth.

I noticed the website of the educational institute that mentions the docotor includes this sentence: “Autor de 14 libros y más de 400 artículos de ciencia y divulgación.”

This is subtly deceptive while technically true. No one expects an expert to self-publish. This means there is no publishing house remotely interested in what was written. This is a bit like me listing that I do taxes. People would assume people pay me to do that…not that I do it as a hobby. Also, here is another mention of this 400 science articles. The doctor himself has explained that these are not scholarly articles in the manner that everyone would naturally assume…simply articles that contain science.

I fully intend to keep researching this man but, it should be noted, that even if this man has a PhD from some Bolivian institution in the 1970’s (which I highly doubt)…this forum thread should make it painfully clear that this was a truly horrible choice for the expert witness of a miracle. If a miracle did not occur, however, it is clearly a genius choice.

Again, if I was given the opportunity to witness a true miracle firsthand (and my goal was to share that miracle and attempt to prove it) I would have done almost everything differently than Mike and Ron did. I would not allow Catalina Rivas to have relatives in the room, I would not allow her to wear a ring, I would not allow her to have a rosary in her hands, I would not allow her to be under the sheets,…and I would have an expert people could easily agree was an expert. It is that simple. If the even was filmed in the manner I described…it would be fascinating and quite persuasive. Filmed in the manner that Mike and Ron chose, it is compelling only to die hard believers…and the claim that scientific observation occurred is laughable to anyone who knows how science tests claims.
 
The only painfully clear thing in this thread is that you are a hopeless crank.]

EDIT: For crying out loud, there is an independent academic resource which says he is a doctor in neuropsychology. Just stop.
 
A crank is a term used for a person who holds an unshakable belief that most of his or her contemporaries consider to be false, Windfish. Do you honestly think that if you or I met in front of a parish to share our thoughts and findings on this matter that my skepticism would be deemed unwarranted? I think you are wildly wrong and I offer to take you up on that challenge at any time.

And a parish audience would be giving you a big advantage. You can bet money that a random sample of Americans would find your religiously motivated credulity to be more representative of misplaced belief than my reluctance to place my faith in the opinions of this questionable doctor.
 
Would I bet that your skepticism would be deemed unwarranted? Absolutely, as I have shown over and over again that not only is your skepticism unwarranted, but you refuse to actually recognize the evidence. There is an independent academic source repeating his credentials, there is indirect evidence establishing his credibility, your arguments from silence have been shown to be fallacious, you continue to promote illicit conclusions from these arguments (e.g., that he is the expert witness), and on and on and on.

The PhD matter is settled, can we agree? THAT he has one is settled. You can find out when our where he got it, that’s fine. But THAT he has one, it’s settled. If you do not agree with that, then, yes, you are a crank.
 
Also,

“religiously motivated credulity”

i provided evidence and reasoning and dismantled your ‘arguments’

yeah, credulity.
 
Here is how he presented himself to a Global Catholic Media network in Mexico (link below) dimiradio.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3

TRANSLATED: "He holds a doctorate in clinical psychology, with university studies in Germany and Italy is specialized in psychosomatic medicine and cognitive neuropsicofisiología.

He also studied psychotherapy specialty in London, pathologies in Lyon-France, toxic units at the University of Berkeley in California, biochemistry Wheil - Germany, applied psychology in Leuven-Belgium.

He is the author of 14 books and over 400 articles on science and outreach. He has lectured, among others, at the University of Georgetown in Washington, at the Interamerican Development Bank, Polytechnic University of Madrid, Valladolid University, University of Texas Augustine, Saint Joseph College in Sydney Australia. And with the same motive has visited New Zealand, Korea, Egypt, Israel, the US, Europe and the Americas made so far over 1700 lectures.

For its scientific contribution it has been awarded the Silver Asclepius by the Civil Defense Committee of the United Nations, and Academician of the Gold Legion, corresponding to the Tiberina Academy of Rome.

He is currently president and researcher at the “International Group for Peace”, with offices in 13 countries."

Windfish calls this man “obscure”…really? He certainly would love to differ. So, if your claim is true…that he is obscure…then he is definitely full of BS. So which is it, Windfish, obscure or famous? I can send you links where he claims to have met Jean Paul Sarte and studied under Nobel prize winners (seriously). NONE of his academic claims above can be verified. Wheil Germany does not even exist and Windfish says “move along, nothing to see here. Case closed.”

Since you love logic terms" An absence of something can be proved by a reductio ad absurdum or by proving something else that is inconsistent with the presence of that something. Continually misrepresenting your credentials is inconsistent with having actual credentials. I have contacted the University of Georgetown…they have no knowledge of him ever speaking. I repeat…Wheil, Germany does not even exist and this claim is made on numerous sites that I would be willing to share. How can you honestly get behind this man?
 
Sgroh, you are ignoring nearly a week of careful argumentation and are now doubling down on a scaffolding of paranoia and suspicion. You continually advance fallacious arguments and egregiously repeat their illicit conclusions - for example, the fact that you cannot verify some facts through your (limited) search means (to you) that they cannot be verified at all:
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Sgroh:
NONE of his academic claims above can be verified.
Setting aside the fact that some of his academic claims can, indeed, be verified, what you really mean is that you have not been able to verify them. These two notions are not the same, and to suggest that they are is to equivocate. This is precisely the illicit conclusion that results from the argument from silence.

The concern that began this discussion regarded Castañón-Gómez’s stated credentials. I advanced arguments that showed, from indirect evidence, that we have sufficient reason to trust his credibility. Sgroh, you have not addressed them. Post #23 of this thread provided an independent academic source that repeated Castañón-Gómez’s credentials. Sgroh, you have not address that, either. You are, instead, manically insisting on peripheral issues (btw, the town of Wheil, Germany may not exist, but the town of Weil am Rhein, Germany exists. ;)) I have another logic lesson for you: these arered herrings:
Wikipedia:
A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of a rhetorical strategies (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation.
You can make much of his lack of fame given the his listed accomplishments and credentials, but this would be a red herring vis a vis the fact of his credentials at all. And, to be clear, you have not yet provided a single source where he makes these claims (yet you continually assert that he makes them). In any case, all of this is just a red herring.

So. Let me simplify things. Again, the initial concern that began this discussion was over his credentials. We have an independent acedemic source that repeats his credentials. Therefore, regarding his credentials, we now have independent and direct evidence of his credentials. Yes? Yes.

Sure, you can follow the rabbit trails and determine if he really did speak at Georgetown or not. Fine. That might be interesting. But regarding the fact of his credentials, that matter is settled. If you would like to change the subject and now investigate these peripheral facts, great. I would join you. I wonder, though, with whom did you speak at Georgetown? What authorized him to say who spoke there? What record did he reference? What is the nature of this record, if it exists? Does it contain all guest speakers? Only some? Up to a certain point in time and not before? Are there some speakers that would not be on this record? Is the record even exhaustive or reliable at all? Do we have access to it? These are the questions I would ask.

Sgroh. We have had, for many posts now, an independent academic source that addresses the question of the initial concern. So that concern is settled. If these peripheral facts are now your focus, fine. Cheers.
 
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