Story of Noah: Who believes it to be real?

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Steve40 said:
No. The first Pope said we didn’t need to be circomcised. See the Council of Jeruselem. I reiterate. Listen to the First Pope.
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Did the first pope also mention the womens rights? Was the first pope peter?
 
I’m a Christian (Catholic) and believe it to have happened just as it says in the Bible. 🙂
 
Abbadon said:
Did the first pope also mention the womens rights? Was the first pope peter?
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No, I believe it was St. Paul, “Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the Church”. Goodluck making good on that right, but it is their right non the less.
 
I believe it was a regional disaster which was exaggerated over time to become the Jewish folk tale it is.

I think the Mediterranean Sea today was where it happened with the great flood. There was a fertile plain that flooded when Gibraltar collapsed. There may have been a big boat with animals on it, but the entire world did not flood and it is impossible to get every species on it.

It has since become a story to teach the main points in it.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
I believe it was a regional disaster which was exaggerated over time to become the Jewish folk tale it is.

I think the Mediterranean Sea today was where it happened with the great flood. There was a fertile plain that flooded when Gibraltar collapsed. There may have been a big boat with animals on it, but the entire world did not flood and it is impossible to get every species on it.

It has since become a story to teach the main points in it.
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To say that it would be impossible to fit every species in a small area would mean that you do not believe that species can adapt and change over time and due to changes in the environment. These types of changes have been well documented and are very scientific. I would say that most of the scientific community believes in the ability of a species to adapt and change.

As for a Global flood the fossil record is a nice indication that many animals were buried alive. It’s a good record that is all over the world. Again much of the scientific community today believe in the “fossil record” and so do I. It recorded the flood.
 
EphelDuath said:
There is absolutely no evidence of a global flood. I understand it’s possible for such a magnificent event to happen – anything is possible under God’s wing. But don’t you think there would be titanic traces for a titanic flood? Yet nothing is found.

The story makes more sense if it’s seen from a didactic point of view.
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I think it is a Jewish version of a Mesoptamian myth that was based on a real but local flood.​

Unfortunately the choices given don’t allow for much diversity of opinion 😦 🙂

I agree with your first paragraph though 🙂
 
Steve40 said:
As for a Global flood the fossil record is a nice indication that many animals were buried alive. It’s a good record that is all over the world. Again much of the scientific community today believe in the “fossil record” and so do I. It recorded the flood.
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You may “believe” in the fossil record, but you don’t understand it.

Peace

Tim
 
The story of Noah is not a story about a boat ride with animals.
Whether it literally happened as described or not is immaterial to the lesson of the story.

Since there is absolutely no evidence for a global flood within the past few millennia and even absolutely less evidence for a recent genetic bottleneck in all living terrestrial species, in appears likely that (barring a whole bunch of handwavium on God’s part) the event did not happen as is often interpreted.
 
lucybeebee said:
For what it’s worth, the 1914 Catholic Encyclopedia posits some of the theories mentioned here as legitimate positions for Catholics to hold.

newadvent.org/cathen/01720a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/04702a.htm
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FWIW:​

  • Happily we are in the position to be able to control the value of the critical conclusions by means of the Babylonian or Akkadian account of the Deluge. Without delaying over its form as contained in the fragments of Berosus which are of comparatively recent date, we find that the version given in a cuneiform inscription on tablets preserved in the British Museum, and first deciphered by George Smith in 1872, contains a combination of the P and J elements of the Flood story. This version is said by experts to date back at least to about 3000 B. C.
    This estimate of the date is no longer sustainable - it was in 1914, but no longer. The CE’s articles on Mesoptamian matters are badly out of date 😦 - especially in their earlier chronology, the dates are impossibly high: no scholar would now date Sargon of Akkad to 3800 BC, for example - that date is too high by 1400 years or so. As a rule, dates in the CE are too high by centuries until after 2000 or so. The same applies to other sources of the same age, such as the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1901-06 & the Encylopaedia Britannica of 1911.
There are several versions of the Flood legend:
  • a Sumerian version, of which about two fifths survive - i.e. 80 lines of about 200. It could be as old as about 2600 - the surviving copies go back to about 1900.
  • A brief mention in the Sumerian King List, which is part of a 40-line addition to the SKL which appears to be as old as the 18th century
  • The Flood episode in the Atra-hasis poem, which is in the Semitic language of Mesopotamia now known as Akkadian
  • Tablet 11 of the Gilgamesh Epic, which is based on the Atra-hasis poem. This is the version discovered & deciphered by George Smith to which the article refers. At an approximation, the text is as old as 1500 or so
  • The Hebrew version of the legend probably owed something to retellings of the Mesopotamian story in Canaan; there is archaeological evidence for this, as well as the resemblances between the Gilgamesh & Genesis versions.
  • the fragments in Berossus, which are the remains of a book written about 250 BC. Until the 1870s, they were the sole native Mesopotamian evidence of the Flood legends known to Westerners, apart from the Noah story.
    The older Flood tales shows signs of their previous history, of having being edited; so it is not clear why we cannot think of the Genesis text in the same way. The so-called Babylonian Creation Epic shows very clear signs of having been edited, so this is not something unusual. So why is it so important for the Genesis text to be an unrevised & unedited unity ?
Even in Mesopotamia there was no single “canonical” form of the legend - as is clear from the variations in the hero’s name: in the Gilgamesh poem he is Ut[a]napishtim, in Atra-hasis he is the hero of the title, while in Sumerian he is Ziudsura (of which the name Utnapishtim is a translation. Sometimes he is Ubara-Tutu - the Greek Otiartes. So why can’t there be two different Israelite traditions ?

The SKL can be found here:
 
Orogeny said:
You may “believe” in the fossil record, but you don’t understand it.

Peace

Tim
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Have you ever looked at the photographs of the fossil record? Not a drawing that you would find in some text books, but actual pictures. It includes some animals eating other animals as if they were interupted by something. What you see in some drawings is not really reprsented by what is found. Look at the actual pictures and judge for yourself.
 
Steve40 said:
Have you ever looked at the photographs of the fossil record? Not a drawing that you would find in some text books, but actual pictures. It includes some animals eating other animals as if they were interupted by something. What you see in some drawings is not really reprsented by what is found. Look at the actual pictures and judge for yourself.
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I’ve actually studied the fossil record. Have you? Have you ever found a fish fossil in Cambrian deposits? How about a horn coral in Eocene deposits? How about mammal fossils in Permian deposits?

Where did you study paleontology?

Peace

Tim
 
I saw another version of the Noah’s Ark story, it was called Evan Almighty. That one definitely didn’t really happen, but it was very inspiring and taught me about God and made me reflect on things. Maybe it was inspired and if a modern story can be inspired, why couldn’t an ancient fictional story also be inspired and be considered worthy of being included in the sacred writings?
 
I agree with Daniel Marsh.

Do the animals mentioned in the Genesis account place a limit on where in the world the flood could have happened?
 
Orogeny said:
I’ve actually studied the fossil record. Have you? Have you ever found a fish fossil in Cambrian deposits? How about a horn coral in Eocene deposits? How about mammal fossils in Permian deposits?

Where did you study paleontology?

Peace

Tim
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Did you see the links between the spiecies? Were they layed out in a nice pattern going from less complex deeper and more complex to higher as shown in text book drawings? What kind of assumptions do you make to interpret the “fossil record”?

How do you date your fossils? Do you make any assumptions in the initial mass before doing radio dating and does the location found on it’s own represent an assumed time period?
 
Orogeny said:
Where did you study paleontology?

Peace

Tim
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I’d rather be in a profession that has something useful to present to society. I have very little scientific respect for paleontologists. It’s a psudo science.
 
Steve40 said:
I’d rather be in a profession that has something useful to present to society. I have very little scientific respect for paleontologists. It’s a psudo science.
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What’s wrong with palentology?:confused:
 
Steve40 said:
I’d rather be in a profession that has something useful to present to society. I have very little scientific respect for paleontologists. It’s a psudo science.
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In other words, you haven’t.

I notice that you are an expert on fossils, though. Care to have an extended discussion about them?

Let me start. The fossil record absolutely and clearly was not deposited in a flood. If you think it was, please show me a horn coral from Eocene deposits or modern coral in Cambrian deposits.

Peace

Tim
 
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