Story of Noah: Who believes it to be real?

[Brian_Millar]

Interesting - let’s say we were going to terraform a planet and populate it. Let’s ask the scientists how we would do this.

First we have to build a ship of some sort. It has to be big enough of course to carry all the seeds and stuff we need. We would need to some male sperm and some female sperm of all kinds. It would have to survive the journey. It would have to support the life on board.

Sound feasable? You bet.

Well, outside of female sperm, I wouldn’t consider it to be impossible to do. I remember reading in Omni magazine some years ago about what it would take to terra form Mars, just to get it to have a breathable atmposphere would take around 150 years. The soil on Mars is completely sterilized due to being exposed to the suns radition, so it would be necessary to have to import dirt itself. The atmosphere would be carbon dioxide which only could support plant life, it would take time for the plants to convert this to oxygen, then it would finally be able to support more advanced life.

I’d say it would be easier to terraform the moon due to it’s proximity and we are still facing the same situation we do with Mars. Our brilliant scientists are showing no interest in doing this at all and are considering Mars as the first place to start, while we know the moon is not only easier to access, it’s proximity to the sun being the same as earth should make it the priority.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I’d say it would be easier to terraform the moon due to it’s proximity and we are still facing the same situation we do with Mars. Our brilliant scientists are showing no interest in doing this at all and are considering Mars as the first place to start, while we know the moon is not only easier to access, it’s proximity to the sun being the same as earth should make it the priority.

But the moon doesn’t have an atmosphere, and doesn’t have enough gravity to hold an atmosphere, unfortunately. And the low gravity would make living there difficult. And they don’t have night and day on the moon.

I don’t think it makes much sense to start terraforming mars before we even know if it has or has had life.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Mars doesn’t have enough of an atmosphere to consider it enough to be working from, it’s gravity is also quite weak compared to earths which means even if we got an atmosphere with the proper amount of compounds to support life as we know it on earth, it still likely would have issues trying to support earth created life in the first place.

The moons gravity can be increased through two meathods I can think of right off the top of my head, it surely would be easier to manage getting it to rotate (one of them) since it’s a smaller body then Mars, it also would be easier to develop a gravitational field through the same meathod using plates located under biospheres which likely will be the meathod initially used if they decided to terraform it since it would be easier to implement on a smaller scale and not interfere wtih the earths gravitational pull and/or interaction through the tides and general sinc between it and the earth’s patterns.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Mars doesn’t have enough of an atmosphere to consider it enough to be working from, it’s gravity is also quite weak compared to earths which means even if we got an atmosphere with the proper amount of compounds to support life as we know it on earth, it still likely would have issues trying to support earth created life in the first place.

The moons gravity can be increased through two meathods I can think of right off the top of my head, it surely would be easier to manage getting it to rotate (one of them) since it’s a smaller body then Mars, it also would be easier to develop a gravitational field through the same meathod using plates located under biospheres which likely will be the meathod initially used if they decided to terraform it since it would be easier to implement on a smaller scale and not interfere wtih the earths gravitational pull and/or interaction through the tides and general sinc between it and the earth’s patterns.

Talk about leaving the subject. Do we need to get back on track before the moderator closes the thread, or is this the typical way one shows that they no longer want to talk about the subject of the OP? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Mars doesn’t have enough of an atmosphere to consider it enough to be working from, it’s gravity is also quite weak compared to earths which means even if we got an atmosphere with the proper amount of compounds to support life as we know it on earth, it still likely would have issues trying to support earth created life in the first place.

Mars has enough of an atmosphere for plant life. Terraforming it for humans would require building up a larger atmosphere. But at least it has enough gravity to hold a thicker atmosphere.

The gravity on mars is 38% of earth, while the gravity on the moon is 17% of earth. I think it would be easier to adjust to Martian gravity than moon gravity.

 

[buffalo]

Talk about leaving the subject. Do we need to get back on track before the moderator closes the thread, or is this the typical way one shows that they no longer want to talk about the subject of the OP? Just curious. Thanks.

There is a bigger point developing here.

 

[Brian_Millar]

There is a bigger point developing here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_mars shows more detail as to what we are up against with terraforming anything, the key element, both Mars and the moon lack is a magnetic field. This field is what deflects the vast majority of solar radiation and is the critical element that needs to be addressed initially, even though people for the most part don’t think that way.

It can be created through artificial means, or it could be helped along through natural means by heating up the interior of them to a molten, earth like state. After that is in place, the planet/moon would begin to have siesmic activities, distributing gasses into the atmosphere. Without even going that route, simply adding the necessary gasses directly, the moon could sustain an atmosphere for thousands of years, and with regular replenishing, could be made habitable. Another way to get the magnetic field to exist is through creating a giant coil that surrounds the equator, if we went that route, I think the job would be much easier due to the smaller size of the moon, and again it’s proximity compared to Mars.

Mars’s atmosphere is so thin, it absolutely cannot support any form of life as we know it. Even the most primitave forms would still require significant resources to be imported into it just to support them.

Ok, we now have figured out how to shield the planet/moon from the solar radiation and we have some some form of an atmosphere being created on it’s own, we now have to increase their gravity, for it’s been proven that plant life requires it to germinate and grow, this problem has been a stumbling block since the beginning with people theorizing how to create a self sustained colony in space.

I refuse to go into utter detail with my own observations and theories, for they are far too radical for the current scientific community to accept, yet they are proven in real time in the real world and this is something I’ve been playing around with for 28 years. Here is something from mainstream acceptable thinking in this regard: curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=65 what I find amusing, the person answering these questions has missed an element in regards to centrifugal force that there is no clear explanation. This is when he discusses how an object within the center of the centrifuge would fall to the outer edge, yet if you want to demonstrate this clearly doesn’t happen, it wouldn’t be too difficult to create an experiement with a hamster wheel, dropping a coin through the center of it while it is spinning, the coin will fall through it in a predictable manner as opposed to what this person is claiming.

Ok, now that we are completely off topic, being it’s been nice to take a break from this discussion topic for a bit, back to the topic itself and how I turned away from evolution and reducing these books in the bibles as being only allegory.

It wasn’t through someone arguing with me, it wasn’t about some debate where I learned some facts that I was clearly wrong with at all. It was because I originally lacked faith in the word of God, I was not as learned about it, and my faith was more in line with a child with the suppliment of thinking I knew all of the answers since I was raised to believe in evolution and not to take what is written literally on many accounts.

This now turns back to how we that believe deal with those that do no believe and we go back to the Lords Prayer, taking particular note of “They Will Be Done”. This is clear, his will overrides any and all things, any and all rules, regulations, laws of physics, all of that, it is His will, not ours that will be done. All we as believers can do is pray for these skeptics to increase their faith, for if they do, they will eventually finally side with what the Lord has given us with his word, they will no longer second guess him or his word, they will no longer try to fit it into some little man made, man understood formula or box and will finally be able to simply trust God in his ways and to know, that clearly we do not know how he does things, we just know he does.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_mars shows more detail as to what we are up against with terraforming anything, the key element, both Mars and the moon lack is a magnetic field. This field is what deflects the vast majority of solar radiation and is the critical element that needs to be addressed initially, even though people for the most part don’t think that way.

It can be created through artificial means, or it could be helped along through natural means by heating up the interior of them to a molten, earth like state. After that is in place, the planet/moon would begin to have siesmic activities, distributing gasses into the atmosphere. Without even going that route, simply adding the necessary gasses directly, the moon could sustain an atmosphere for thousands of years, and with regular replenishing, could be made habitable. Another way to get the magnetic field to exist is through creating a giant coil that surrounds the equator, if we went that route, I think the job would be much easier due to the smaller size of the moon, and again it’s proximity compared to Mars.

Mars’s atmosphere is so thin, it absolutely cannot support any form of life as we know it. Even the most primitave forms would still require significant resources to be imported into it just to support them.

Ok, we now have figured out how to shield the planet/moon from the solar radiation and we have some some form of an atmosphere being created on it’s own, we now have to increase their gravity, for it’s been proven that plant life requires it to germinate and grow, this problem has been a stumbling block since the beginning with people theorizing how to create a self sustained colony in space.

I refuse to go into utter detail with my own observations and theories, for they are far too radical for the current scientific community to accept, yet they are proven in real time in the real world and this is something I’ve been playing around with for 28 years. Here is something from mainstream acceptable thinking in this regard: curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=65 what I find amusing, the person answering these questions has missed an element in regards to centrifugal force that there is no clear explanation. This is when he discusses how an object within the center of the centrifuge would fall to the outer edge, yet if you want to demonstrate this clearly doesn’t happen, it wouldn’t be too difficult to create an experiement with a hamster wheel, dropping a coin through the center of it while it is spinning, the coin will fall through it in a predictable manner as opposed to what this person is claiming.

Ok, now that we are completely off topic, being it’s been nice to take a break from this discussion topic for a bit, back to the topic itself and how I turned away from evolution and reducing these books in the bibles as being only allegory.

It wasn’t through someone arguing with me, it wasn’t about some debate where I learned some facts that I was clearly wrong with at all. It was because I originally lacked faith in the word of God, I was not as learned about it, and my faith was more in line with a child with the suppliment of thinking I knew all of the answers since I was raised to believe in evolution and not to take what is written literally on many accounts.

This now turns back to how we that believe deal with those that do no believe and we go back to the Lords Prayer, taking particular note of “They Will Be Done”. This is clear, his will overrides any and all things, any and all rules, regulations, laws of physics, all of that, it is His will, not ours that will be done. All we as believers can do is pray for these skeptics to increase their faith, for if they do, they will eventually finally side with what the Lord has given us with his word, they will no longer second guess him or his word, they will no longer try to fit it into some little man made, man understood formula or box and will finally be able to simply trust God in his ways and to know, that clearly we do not know how he does things, we just know he does.

Brian, if you don’t mind telling, how old are you? I ask because I am curious what decade you were learning more about evolution than Faith. I would bet that a lot of the information recieved came from the Church.
I have a brother who left the Catholic Faith in the early 80’s. He was fed watered down, anything goes, find your own truth propaganda by those in the Church…though I am not sure it was by a priest himself. I graduated high school in 1987, and from 1983-1986 I was fed by youth ministers and such the “if it feels good, do it” lies. I was Confirmed in 1986. I can only say that it was truly a Sacrament, because that is when I became much more aware of the reality of my faith. I didn’t become “born again” so to speak until 2 years later, though. I had to start looking at ***my faith ***through the adult eyes God was gifting me with, not the eyes of a child.
Anyway, I am curious about what decade of the world you went through this. And what led you to the adult phase of your faith?
And anyone else who wants to share the story, please feel free to think of the question as being addressed to you.

 

[peary]

Originally Posted by Brian Millar
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_mars shows more detail as to what we are up against with terraforming anything, the key element, both Mars and the moon lack is a magnetic field. This field is what deflects the vast majority of solar radiation and is the critical element that needs to be addressed initially, even though people for the most part don’t think that way.

It can be created through artificial means, or it could be helped along through natural means by heating up the interior of them to a molten, earth like state. After that is in place, the planet/moon would begin to have siesmic activities, distributing gasses into the atmosphere. Without even going that route, simply adding the necessary gasses directly, the moon could sustain an atmosphere for thousands of years, and with regular replenishing, could be made habitable. Another way to get the magnetic field to exist is through creating a giant coil that surrounds the equator, if we went that route, I think the job would be much easier due to the smaller size of the moon, and again it’s proximity compared to Mars.

Mars’s atmosphere is so thin, it absolutely cannot support any form of life as we know it. Even the most primitave forms would still require significant resources to be imported into it just to support them.

Ok, we now have figured out how to shield the planet/moon from the solar radiation and we have some some form of an atmosphere being created on it’s own, we now have to increase their gravity, for it’s been proven that plant life requires it to germinate and grow, this problem has been a stumbling block since the beginning with people theorizing how to create a self sustained colony in space.

I refuse to go into utter detail with my own observations and theories, for they are far too radical for the current scientific community to accept, yet they are proven in real time in the real world and this is something I’ve been playing around with for 28 years. Here is something from mainstream acceptable thinking in this regard: curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=65 what I find amusing, the person answering these questions has missed an element in regards to centrifugal force that there is no clear explanation. This is when he discusses how an object within the center of the centrifuge would fall to the outer edge, yet if you want to demonstrate this clearly doesn’t happen, it wouldn’t be too difficult to create an experiement with a hamster wheel, dropping a coin through the center of it while it is spinning, the coin will fall through it in a predictable manner as opposed to what this person is claiming.

Ok, now that we are completely off topic, being it’s been nice to take a break from this discussion topic for a bit, back to the topic itself and how I turned away from evolution and reducing these books in the bibles as being only allegory.

It wasn’t through someone arguing with me, it wasn’t about some debate where I learned some facts that I was clearly wrong with at all. It was because I originally lacked faith in the word of God, I was not as learned about it, and my faith was more in line with a child with the suppliment of thinking I knew all of the answers since I was raised to believe in evolution and not to take what is written literally on many accounts.

This now turns back to how we that believe deal with those that do no believe and we go back to the Lords Prayer, taking particular note of “They Will Be Done”. This is clear, his will overrides any and all things, any and all rules, regulations, laws of physics, all of that, it is His will, not ours that will be done. All we as believers can do is pray for these skeptics to increase their faith, for if they do, they will eventually finally side with what the Lord has given us with his word, they will no longer second guess him or his word, they will no longer try to fit it into some little man made, man understood formula or box and will finally be able to simply trust God in his ways and to know, that clearly we do not know how he does things, we just know he does.

**Ummm…what does the terraforming of Mars have to do with Noah and the Ark??? **

 

[Brian_Millar]

Eventually we as a race may likely have to migrate to another planet carrying along all life that’s necessary to sustain itself to our new home, just as Noah did, so there is a relation of sorts with the dialog regardless. This certainly is a better dialog then hammering upon each sides perspectives regardless.

My own story along coming to terms with this was a personal journey and I’d elaborate more on it today except for the fact, I’m using a laptop which hinders typing anything, especially since it’s running ms vista which has a ton of issues causing sentances to be terminated as I try to type them.

 

[peary]

Eventually we as a race may likely have to migrate to another planet carrying along all life that’s necessary to sustain itself to our new home, just as Noah did, so there is a relation of sorts with the dialog regardless. This certainly is a better dialog then hammering upon each sides perspectives regardless.

My own story along coming to terms with this was a personal journey and I’d elaborate more on it today except for the fact, I’m using a laptop which hinders typing anything, especially since it’s running ms vista which has a ton of issues causing sentances to be terminated as I try to type them.

It would appear that that would be unnecessary as the earth continually renews itself.

 

[Brian_Millar]

We have population growth to consider, eventually this planet will not be able to sustain it.

 

[peary]

We have population growth to consider, eventually this planet will not be able to sustain it.

You can fit most of the world’s population in Texas, actually.

 

[peary]

We have population growth to consider, eventually this planet will not be able to sustain it.

**That claim is bogus. No demographer predicted that when fertility dropped to replacement level - which is 2.1 child per woman per lifetime - it would keep falling. But it has. In Western Europe, Japan and the East Asian tiger economies, the total fertility rate (TFR) is 1.5. and falling. Italy’s has fallen to a national suicidal 1.2. North African immigrants look like inheriting Italy. 79 countries and territories, with 44 per cent of the world’s population, are now in the below-replacement category. These include 27 of the 29 OECD countries, plus Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. Bulgaria has the lowest TFR ever witnessed in a modern nation not at war - just 1.14 births per woman per lifetime. If that rate remains, each new generation in Bulgaria will be half the size of the preceding one. That’s how quickly things can change.

In the 1960s, population grew at 2 per cent. It’s now growing at 1 per cent and if it continues to drop as the pattern suggests it will, it will head into negative numbers. Many demographers now think the world’s population will peak at 8 billion within fifty years or so, and then go into a rapid decline. So far from facing a population explosion, we’re more likely looking at a population implosion, and that ‘implosion’ began fifty years ago.

I can’t believe any rational person buys into the overpopulation myth, and that you do too. International agencies have to justify the huge sums of money spent on imposing authoritarian birth control programmes in many countries, so they claim imminent danger for the planet through ‘over-population’. They’re playing the race card: there’s not too many people, just too many of THEM.**

 

[Philipp]

**That claim is bogus. No demographer predicted that when fertility dropped to replacement level - which is 2.1 child per woman per lifetime - it would keep falling. But it has. In Western Europe, Japan and the East Asian tiger economies, the total fertility rate (TFR) is 1.5. and falling. Italy’s has fallen to a national suicidal 1.2. North African immigrants look like inheriting Italy. 79 countries and territories, with 44 per cent of the world’s population, are now in the below-replacement category. These include 27 of the 29 OECD countries, plus Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. Bulgaria has the lowest TFR ever witnessed in a modern nation not at war - just 1.14 births per woman per lifetime. If that rate remains, each new generation in Bulgaria will be half the size of the preceding one. That’s how quickly things can change.

In the 1960s, population grew at 2 per cent. It’s now growing at 1 per cent and if it continues to drop as the pattern suggests it will, it will head into negative numbers. Many demographers now think the world’s population will peak at 8 billion within fifty years or so, and then go into a rapid decline. So far from facing a population explosion, we’re more likely looking at a population implosion, and that ‘implosion’ began fifty years ago.

I can’t believe any rational person buys into the overpopulation myth, and that you do too. International agencies have to justify the huge sums of money spent on imposing authoritarian birth control programmes in many countries, so they claim imminent danger for the planet through ‘over-population’. They’re playing the race card: there’s not too many people, just too many of THEM.**

That’s a great bunch of stats. I’ve heard generalities about these stats and agree that uniformitarian principles on everything from geology to population predictions are obsolete. However how about a reference?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

The fact is, when a couple has only one child in their lifetime, that is only one person to replace the two people it took to create them. With the explosion of birth control and abortion, enforced in places such as China, we will be only half of the population we were once the baby boomers die out. No offense to the baby boomers or wanting them to hurry up and die.
There aren’t even enough children of the younger generations to care for the older ones who gave birth to them.
Far from overpopulation. Thank God for the Christians who love the gift of God to procreate…and I don’t mean the act. I mean the children and families. The nursing homes in this country alone are filled with people who have to depend on the government for care because they don’t have the children to care for them in any sort of financial way. What’s going to happen with the baby boomers who are now young senior citizens when they hit 75-90 years old. They have done wonders in the medical field so that they can live to 100 years of age or more. But there will be no way to afford to care for them because they have rejected their children’s lives.
God didn’t give us life and this earth to live on only for Him not to sustain us on it. Because of sin, though, there will be famine and plagues. Yet that has nothing to do with any sort of over population problem.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Why would God, who tells us to avoid at all costs other religions, tell us to use something from another religion…mythology…that He knows would be accepted as literal for 2000 years? There you go, discrediting God. He could have explained it quite literally. He did explain it quite literally, despite what this generation…who claims to know more than God’s Word…believes. Faith is believing that which our finite minds cannot understand.

An awful lot of the Bible is derived from or shared with other cultures, in a variety of ways. There’s nothing particularly Israelite about having priests or sacrifices or psalms or prophets or wisdom literature or the sort of Temple Solomon had. As for a man who is also god - so was Gilgamesh; he was “one-third man, two-thirds god”. Israel is not the only nation: God is the God of Sumer & Assyria & Babylonia too, even if they did not know Him. What’s to stop Him working in their cultures to plant seeds of the Gospel ?​

The only thing about Israel that makes them anything more than a rather backward & unimportant people is God & His Covenant. They are important because He chose them.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

An awful lot of the Bible is derived from or shared with other cultures, in a variety of ways. There’s nothing particularly Israelite about having priests or sacrifices or psalms or prophets or wisdom literature or the sort of Temple Solomon had. As for a man who is also god - so was Gilgamesh; he was “one-third man, two-thirds god”. Israel is not the only nation: God is the God of Sumer & Assyria & Babylonia too, even if they did not know Him. What’s to stop Him working in their cultures to plant seeds of the Gospel ?​

The only thing about Israel that makes them anything more than a rather backward & unimportant people is God & His Covenant. They are important because He chose them.

We are talking about the ONE TRUE GOD Who does not need to use other religions to teach us anything. Gilgamesh and Zues and Isis and mother earth and pan are all false gods…just like baal. And the ONE TRUE GOD told us to stay far away from them, not because He was afraid we would find out that He wasn’t Who He Is, but because He loves us so much that He didn’t want us to be decieved by the great deciever!!!

He doesn’t need to use lies in order to teach us anything!!! He is perfect. He created the world, and He created us. He would not lie to us for 2000 years. The only reason to lie is fear or to deliberatly decieve out of malice. And God fears nothing, and He can neither decieve or be decieved. So that He would tell us to borrow lies of others to build our faith upon is a complete and total fallacy, built up by people who cannot accept that which they cannot explain. It is pride and it is arrogance.

 

[buffalo]

We are talking about the ONE TRUE GOD Who does not need to use other religions to teach us anything. Gilgamesh and Zues and Isis and mother earth and pan are all false gods…just like baal. And the ONE TRUE GOD told us to stay far away from them, not because He was afraid we would find out that He wasn’t Who He Is, but because He loves us so much that He didn’t want us to be decieved by the great deciever!!!

He doesn’t need to use lies in order to teach us anything!!! He is perfect. He created the world, and He created us. He would not lie to us for 2000 years. The only reason to lie is fear or to deliberatly decieve out of malice. And God fears nothing, and He can neither decieve or be decieved. So that He would tell us to borrow lies of others to build our faith upon is a complete and total fallacy, built up by people who cannot accept that which they cannot explain. It is pride and it is arrogance.

We do know of one who would spread lies and cleverly deceive the intelligent.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

We do know of one who would spread lies and cleverly deceive the intelligent.

Good point in its exactness.