Straight kids should not be bullied

[Aelred_Minor]

Having taught high school for 33 years, I came to a very sad conclusion about bullying years ago. There are 2 “types” of students who are bullied far more than any others …kids who are obese and those who are perceived to be gay or lesbian. I was on the school district (district is large - there are 14 high schools) steering committee on the bullying problem and the statistics broke my heart. If you are a young man who is effeminate, even just by the way you might run or walk, then you are an automatic target. In many cases these students are almost run out of school because others make their lives a living hell. Is it any wonder that the suicide rate for young gays is so high compared to other groups?

About six years ago THE STUDENTS asked to start a GSA (gay- straight alliance) on our campus. In the beginning almost all 100+ members were straight kids. Slowly gay students began to show up for meetings and events and the whole atmosphere changed as far as bullying was concerned. When the new 9th graders start calling kids fags or queer or using the word gay in a derogatory manner, they are told by older students that using that language is not appropriate or welcome on our campus. The sponsors of our GSA were both straight AND Catholic. I hope other schools have the success we have had in making everyone feel welcome in the learning environment.

I think this demonstrates one aspect of where the modern West’s confusion on this subject comes from. There are some people among us with disordered sexual attractions. These people, like everyone who has something wrong with them, are subject to stigmas, prejudices, and even torments at the hands of those who derive pleasure from grinding their perceived inferiors into the dirt.

Rather than combat this evil attitude towards weakness in others, we take the shortcut of denying that the weakness is a weakness at all. We call it a strength instead. We bring in language of identity and pride. We even call up the moral power that lies in our cultural memory of the Civil Rights Movement. And so the real moral problem of the strong’s disdain for the weak remains unresolved, while a debilitating condition is exalted to the status of “persecuted minority”.

 

[triumphguy]

My goal with this thread was to expose the hypocrisy of those who see no problem with a campaign to eliminate the bullying of LGBT kids.

And that goal was met.

Hmm - I don’t think so. I think you showed the opposite.

 

[triumphguy]

I think this demonstrates one aspect of where the modern West’s confusion on this subject comes from. There are some people among us with disordered sexual orientations. These people, like everyone who has something wrong with them, are subject to stigmas, prejudices, and even torments at the hands of those who derive pleasure from grinding their perceived inferiors into the dirt.

Rather than combat this evil attitude towards weakness in others, we take the shortcut of denying that the weakness is a weakness at all. We call it a strength instead. We bring in language of identity and pride. We even call up the moral power that lies in our cultural memory of the Civil Rights Movement. And so the real moral problem of the strong’s disdain for the weak remains unresolved, while a debilitating condition is exalted to the status of “persecuted minority”.

That’s one way of dealing with it.

Another way is just to stop the bullying. Which is what Catholic schools do.

 

[PatriceA]

My goal with this thread was to expose the hypocrisy of those who see no problem with an LGBT anti-bullying campaign.

And that goal was met.

Just the opposite actually.

 

[meltzerboy]

I think the OP’s intent is being misconstrued.My opinion is the point is No One should be bullies,gay straight or otherwise.So why just focus on ssa bullying? Pretty sure this was the message .

I agree that we should not focus only on SSA bullying. There should be no-tolerance rules that are enforced against the bullying of any student. However, when certain students, such as gay, obese, or Muslim students, for example, have been particularly targeted in a given school, I think specific measures should be taken to safeguard those students.

 

[livingwordunity]

Hmm - I don’t think so. I think you showed the opposite.

The same ones who say that an LGBT anti-bullying campaign doesn’t necessarily mean that bullying is ok for others are now protesting and assuming that an anti-bullying campaign for straight kids means that “gay” kids are excluded. That’s the hypocrisy. Nowhere in the OP did I say that “gays” should be bullied. Anyone who is intellectually honest will be able to admit that I made my point.

 

[kozlosap]

The answer to bad conduct is not bad clubs. Our children are raised in a culture of broken homes and moral relativism. Contriving these ideological clubs does not solve the problem. It just redirects children into a particular narrative and ideology.

I have to heartily disagree. Teenagers learning how to behave in a Christ-like manner has nothing to do with moral relativism or broken homes. Behaving in a loving manner or being friends with a LGBT person has nothing to do with any specific ideology - it has to do with following the Gospels. BTW, I haven’t seen one case where a straight student ‘caught’ gayness.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

That’s one way of dealing with it.

Another way is just to stop the bullying. Which is what Catholic schools do.

Stopping the bullying, rather than blinding ourselves to the real faults of the bullied, is what I was getting at. At least stop it at a behavioral level, though the higher goal should be to address whatever it is inside some kids that makes them want to torment their perceived inferiors in order to make themselves feel powerful.

 

[PatriceA]

That’s one way of dealing with it.

Another way is just to stop the bullying. Which is what Catholic schools do.

SOME Catholic schools do. Some Catholic schools stick their heads in the sand and say they don’t have and never will have a bullying problem while the kid down the hall is being ridiculed on a daily basis for being “fat”, “gay” and “stupid”.

 

[TimeEntrance]

No one should be bullied. But are straight kids bullied just for being straight, the way gay kids are for simply being gay? It’s not exactly the equivalent. In the case of straight kids, I think there is usually some other reason why they’re bullied.

I would agree with all of that.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Yeah I don’t know why you want to start a campaign only for “straight kids.” There are many other things that are getting attacked. Bullying is intrinsically evil.

Given teenagers can be pedophiles do you feel the same about a 14 year old boy being caught groping and kissing a 6 year old girl?

I think kids learn bullying from adults. Not that they need adults to conduct bullying, but I’m just saying bullying permeates the adult world publicly in so many different ways.

Most adults aren’t much more than overgrown 12 year olds either, except that paste on makeup and smear lipstick on the lips and have mortgages.

Adults do just about most the things they tell kids not to do. That’s why we have Jerry Springer, Steve Wilko, and that fat head Texan… Dr. Phil.

I’m no better. I do like the Mob Wives reality show and that’s a lot of cat fighting and based around the strong trying to intimidate (mafia) the weak or vulnerable.

How does any good cop on American TV solve the problems and brings resolution to the bad or weird? He or she slams them. Punches them. Karate kicks them. Berates and moralizes like Moses coming down from on high carrying the righteous 10 Commandments.

The positive things about adults is we learn lots of things in life are not so black and white. And not everything “cool” is really truthful or right.

We are against gay bullying because gay people have raised their voices collectively, lobbied, and their loved ones and friends come out to support them.

Had gay people kept quite, not lobbied, or the media not sympathetically cover their stories… then no one would care. The same “enlightened” people loving and coddling them today would be kicking them in the butt and hating on them.

Take away lesson: if you want love, then hire some lobbyists, and don’t keep quite or go in hiding.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Having taught high school for 33 years, I came to a very sad conclusion about bullying years ago. There are 2 “types” of students who are bullied far more than any others …kids who are obese and those who are perceived to be gay or lesbian. I was on the school district (district is large - there are 14 high schools) steering committee on the bullying problem and the statistics broke my heart. If you are a young man who is effeminate, even just by the way you might run or walk, then you are an automatic target. In many cases these students are almost run out of school because others make their lives a living hell. Is it any wonder that the suicide rate for young gays is so high compared to other groups?

Being gay should not cause one to behave in what is regarded as “effeminate” behavior. No more than being born a girl should automatically make the person like to walk with a pronounced switch, desire only to stay home and cook for a man, or wear lipstick and high heels.

Feminine and masculine behaviors are learned. The question is why does a boy identify with what he sees in society as feminine behavior and the emulate that?

The parents are at fault. As in karate there are no bad students only bad teachers. Most young boys would probably prefer not going to school or doing any studying but only playing. That does not mean the parent should let them “just be” and grow up illiterate.

One reason I’m against illiteracy is because the world discriminates. Life can be ruthless and culling. My job as a parent (I’m not one) is to prepare my child for life, to develop them and steer them towards success.

About six years ago THE STUDENTS asked to start a GSA (gay- straight alliance) on our campus. In the beginning almost all 100+ members were straight kids. Slowly gay students began to show up for meetings and events and the whole atmosphere changed as far as bullying was concerned. When the new 9th graders start calling kids fags or queer or using the word gay in a derogatory manner, they are told by older students that using that language is not appropriate or welcome on our campus. The sponsors of our GSA were both straight AND Catholic. I hope other schools have the success we have had in making everyone feel welcome in the learning environment.

This is a good thing.

 

[triumphguy]

The same ones who say that an LGBT anti-bullying campaign doesn’t necessarily mean that bullying is ok for others are now protesting and assuming that an anti-bullying campaign for straight kids means that “gay” kids are excluded. That’s the hypocrisy. Nowhere in the OP did I say that “gays” should be bullied. Anyone who is intellectually honest will be able to admit that I made my point.

An anti-bullying campaign for straight kids is going to be different from an anti-bullying campaign for kids with SSA. For instance straight kids don’t get called fag. Not as many straight kids get bullied. Not as many straight kids commit suicide. And straight kids don;t get bullied because of their sexual orientation. And kids with SSA are more likely to be pushed away by their family and friends than other kids who are bullied.

If you bully me 'cos I’m Canadian - well my whole family is Canadian so it’s not as hard. And maybe even my priest is Canadian.

If you bully me 'cos I’m small, well maybe my dad can admit to being small, and can help me learn to cope.

If you bully 'cos I’m gay - well my family probably isn’t gay, and my dad probably cannot relate, and my priest probably isn’t going to come out and admit to being gay either.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

An anti-bullying campaign for straight kids is going to be different from an anti-bullying campaign for kids with SSA. For instance straight kids don’t get called fag. Not as many straight kids get bullied. Not as many straight kids commit suicide. And straight kids don;t get bullied because of their sexual orientation. And kids with SSA are more likely to be pushed away by their family and friends than other kids who are bullied.

If you bully me 'cos I’m Canadian - well my whole family is Canadian so it’s not as hard. And maybe even my priest is Canadian.

If you bully me 'cos I’m small, well maybe my dad can admit to being small, and can help me learn to cope.

If you bully 'cos I’m gay - well my family probably isn’t gay, and my dad probably cannot relate, and my priest probably isn’t going to come out and admit to being gay either.

 

[livingwordunity]

An anti-bullying campaign for straight kids is going to be different from an anti-bullying campaign for kids with SSA. For instance straight kids don’t get called fag. Not as many straight kids get bullied. Not as many straight kids commit suicide. And straight kids don;t get bullied because of their sexual orientation. And kids with SSA are more likely to be pushed away by their family and friends than other kids who are bullied.

If you bully me 'cos I’m Canadian - well my whole family is Canadian so it’s not as hard. And maybe even my priest is Canadian.

If you bully me 'cos I’m small, well maybe my dad can admit to being small, and can help me learn to cope.

If you bully 'cos I’m gay - well my family probably isn’t gay, and my dad probably cannot relate, and my priest probably isn’t going to come out and admit to being gay either.

Straight kids might not get called a “fag” (well, actually straight kids do get called that sometimes), but there are lots of other mean names that straight kids can be called by a bully. For example, a mean name bullies used to call me was “monkey face”. And now, Christians who accept what God said about homosexual activity in the Bible and through the teachings of the Church founded by him are called “bigots” which is another mean name to call someone. “Gays” aren’t the only ones who can be called a mean name, and they aren’t the only ones with problems.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Straight kids might not get called a “fag” (well, actually straight kids do get called that sometimes), but there are lots of other mean names that straight kids can be called by a bully. For example, a mean name bullies used to call me was “monkey face”. And now, Christians who accept what God said about homosexual activity in the Bible and through the teachings of the Church founded by him are called “bigots” which is another mean name to call someone. “Gays” aren’t the only ones who can be called a mean name, and they aren’t the only ones with problems.

No one is saying that gays are the only ones with problems.

 

[Havard]

I think you’re right for the most part, triumphguy, but there are exceptions.

I actually do have a gay acquaintance who calls people ‘fags’ quite often, whether they be gay or straight. He uses it to mean ‘sissy’, as he (imho) has a serious machismo complex. And he gets away with it because his coworkers/employers bend over backwards to make him feel not discriminated.

 

[ewahawaii]

I was picked on because of my cerebral palsy. I walked differently. So-called tough kids shoved me for no reason simply because they knew I wouldn’t fight back. In school, I refused to speak in front of the class unless it was a case of passing or failing the course. Yes, bullying traumatized me growing up. Only having GOD in my life, and a loving, supporting family kept me going.

I often wondered if they did have the Anti-Bullying Campaign in the late 1960s or early 1970s would’ve made a difference.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Let’s make a campaign to let kids know that it’s wrong to bully straight kids. As a straight kid, I was bullied a lot. No one should bully a straight kid. So let’s make sure that straight kids don’t get bullied anymore.

Do you also get bullied for being white, male and/or rich?

kozlosap:

Having taught high school for 33 years, I came to a very sad conclusion about bullying years ago. There are 2 “types” of students who are bullied far more than any others …kids who are obese and those who are perceived to be gay or lesbian. I was on the school district (district is large - there are 14 high schools) steering committee on the bullying problem and the statistics broke my heart. If you are a young man who is effeminate, even just by the way you might run or walk, then you are an automatic target. In many cases these students are almost run out of school because others make their lives a living hell. Is it any wonder that the suicide rate for young gays is so high compared to other groups?

I’ve only been teaching for 3 years, but this has been my experience as well. The obese and SSA/homosexuals/the effeminate.

livingwordunity:

The same ones who say that an LGBT anti-bullying campaign doesn’t necessarily mean that bullying is ok for others are now protesting and assuming that an anti-bullying campaign for straight kids means that “gay” kids are excluded. That’s the hypocrisy. Nowhere in the OP did I say that “gays” should be bullied. Anyone who is intellectually honest will be able to admit that I made my point.

No, we’re getting a laugh out of it because we all know you don’t get bullied for being a member of the “in” group.

 

[triumphguy]

I was picked on because of my cerebral palsy. I walked differently. So-called tough kids shoved me for no reason simply because they knew I wouldn’t fight back. In school, I refused to speak in front of the class unless it was a case of passing or failing the course. Yes, bullying traumatized me growing up. Only having GOD in my life, and a loving, supporting family kept me going.

I often wondered if they did have the Anti-Bullying Campaign in the late 1960s or early 1970s would’ve made a difference.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I was bullied as a kid for going to a Catholic school - with a uniform - and for playing the violin, and for having short hair and glasses. I was obviously called “gay” and “homo” (a fag in Britain is a cigarette - so its not quite as damning ) and pushed around ('til I got bigger) If I had been gay it might have been intolerable - as it was it was rough.

I have a son with down syndrome and one of my terrors as a parent has been that he would be bullied and i wouldn’t be there to protect him.

It is amazing and absolutely heart warming to me how he is accepted into his school community by both kids and teachers. He is accepted as he is, for who he is. Catholic schools DO work!

We actually experienced more “bullying” from the medical community who initially wanted us to “feed on demand” when he was born, and later wanted my wife and I to get sterilized, and then when we refused, to have in-vitro testing on our later kids to make sure they wouldn’t be born with “genetic anomalies.”

These experiences, and my experiences teaching, and my reading of Church documents lead me to believe that we do need a separate, focused anti bullying program for kids with SSA.