L
- Status
G
gam197
Guest
This story shows what happens when a good Pastor takes a stand on an important issue.
There was a thread on this.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=235944&highlight=nfl+pastor
There was a thread on this.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=235944&highlight=nfl+pastor
T
The_Barbarian
Guest
Homosexual activity is sin. And non-celibate homosexuals are thereby sinning. However, the Church opposes abuse of homosexuals, opposes any abuse of their rights as humans, and welcomes them into our parishes.
The Church is here for sinners. This minister seems to have forgotten the purpose of being Christian.
Indeed, his demonstration was more like Little Rock than the Sermon on the Mount.
Pity him.
The Church is here for sinners. This minister seems to have forgotten the purpose of being Christian.
Indeed, his demonstration was more like Little Rock than the Sermon on the Mount.
Pity him.
D
Dale_M
Guest
This probably won’t surprise anyone but Matt Barber is exaggerating.
It is true that 495 students didn’t show up at school that day, but how many of them actually protested (instead of just having an excuse to not go to school)?
The Rev. Hutcherson had approximately 100 protestors, and that includes the ones he brought from his church., where he had put out a call for 1000 protestors.
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/eastsidenews/2004374870_dayofsilence26e.html
It is true that 495 students didn’t show up at school that day, but how many of them actually protested (instead of just having an excuse to not go to school)?
The Rev. Hutcherson had approximately 100 protestors, and that includes the ones he brought from his church., where he had put out a call for 1000 protestors.
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/eastsidenews/2004374870_dayofsilence26e.html
L
leftistdestroye
Guest
The Barbarian;3660622]
The gays at the school, are there to defend their sin, and to force everyone else to accpet their sin!
Praise him!
And where did the Pastor abuse anyone? Where did he infringe on their rights? He simply defended moral teachings and keep it out of schools, LIKE HE HAS TO DO!
The gays at the school, are there to defend their sin, and to force everyone else to accpet their sin!
Praise him!
L
leftistdestroye
Guest
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/25/2004374577.jpg
Nice. When are we allowed to strike back? (if ever
) So much for equality and tolerance, huh?
Nice. When are we allowed to strike back? (if ever
) So much for equality and tolerance, huh?
H
Humanum_Genus
Guest
Amen, we need more pastors and priests like Rev. Hutcherson, whether Catholic or otherwise.
L
leftistdestroye
Guest
M
mattyc4
Guest
Free Speech is a wonderful thing. The protesters have a right to protest, but the participants in the DOS also have a right to make their view point known–through a lack of speech. At the very least, this increases dialogue and discussion between these two polar opposites. The participants have a right to fight for their beliefs and for remembrance that the DOS represented–just as the protesters did. Its a good example of the concept of freedom of speech in America.
Matt
Matt
H
harinkj
Guest
O
Other_Eric
Guest
Authentic freedom of speech is meant for those who speak the truth, not for those who speak in order to lie, which is what any justification of intrinsic immorality must be. Therefore, the participants in this typically self-centered, homosexualist “Day of Silence” cannot be understood to have any right to make their point known, either through speech or silence.
M
mattyc4
Guest
Actually, you are completely wrong. 100%. Freedom of speech is granted to everyone and anyone, regardless of their point of view. A lot of people could and would possibly say the catholic viewpoint is out of touch and would want to limit YOUR right to speak. Be thankful everyone has a voice, regardless of their opinion.
Furthermore, Catholics do not run this country. Nor does any religious group. You are welcome to attempt to thrust your brand of morality on anyone you wish–just are they are allowed to throw it back in your face. You can call it as intrinisically disordered as you wish–that does not mean that people agree with you, nor that you are right.
This is not a theocracy. Maybe you should go visit the middle east and try to spread your doctrine there–then maybe you will have a better appreciation for free speech.
Matt
M
Margarite
Guest
Can you imagine what would happen if all the anti-gay people decided to hold an anti-gay no-speech day? We would probably be sent to the dean for being intolerant. They claim to be so tolerant, but when it comes to tolerating our ideas of morality, they say we are intolerant. Have any of you watched the movie EXPELLED? While it isn’t about gay vs. straight, it is about tolerance vs. intolerance. And how the left really isn’t as tolerant as they appear, and how no matter what we do, we conservatives will never be considered tolerant (not that I am sure I want to be considered tolerant, I have never been accused of that so far
). It is a messed up world we live in.
). It is a messed up world we live in.
M
mattyc4
Guest
Personally, I would not have a problem with you or the anti-gay people holding their own DOS. I think it is a terrible idea, but you have a right to say what you want. Schools are supposed to be a safe place to learn for all students–but it is not for the GLBT students. This was a commemoration of a GLBT student who was murdered for being different. Forgive me if I say their silence will have far more of an impact than yours. Promoting tolerance of actual people is what this is about. Sure, you should have a right to tell all gays they are going to hell (as distasteful as that idea is) if you so choose.Can you imagine what would happen if all the anti-gay people decided to hold an anti-gay no-speech day? We would probably be sent to the dean for being intolerant. They claim to be so tolerant, but when it comes to tolerating our ideas of morality, they say we are intolerant. Have any of you watched the movie EXPELLED? While it isn’t about gay vs. straight, it is about tolerance vs. intolerance. And how the left really isn’t as tolerant as they appear, and how no matter what we do, we conservatives will never be considered tolerant (not that I am sure I want to be considered tolerant, I have never been accused of that so far
Keep in mind, the GLBT are focused on being treated fairly–as equals. It is tough for the left to treat a group fairly who is threatening them with second class citizienship and intolerance. Still, you should have a right to speak.
Everyone should have a right to speak, regardless of your views. Your view is not the most popular, PC, or kind view–so do not be surprised if a private school would feel compelled to not allow you to speak–it is their right.
Best,
Matt
O
Other_Eric
Guest
It’s a sad consequence of the embrace of relativistic secularism that people can no longer recognize abuses of the freedoms God has granted us. Instead, they make appeals to legalistic constructions built on nothing more than the folly of fallen man in an egotistical attempt to make an end-run around the Moral Law as dictated by God.
I see no reason for gratitude that any fool with a set of vocal cords is granted the license to spew whatever falsehood happens to appeal to him. I mourn the poor souls who are taken in by such deception, that they imperil their salvation. I do not live in fear of some hypothetical persecution from the powers of this world; instead I welcome it, as any Christian who has had the presence of mind to heed the Gospel should.
Individuals such as those who participate in the “Day of Silence” do not, in any moral sense, exercise a freedom of speech. Instead, they corrupt language by unmooring it from its created purpose: the dissemination of truth. This violence that they do to the faculty of communication merits no protection of the law.
M
mattyc4
Guest
It should be a comfort to you that you are allowed to speak to anyone you want about your religious convictions in the USA. Perhaps they should ban zealous religious condemnations as their first act of restricting free speech?
The moral law, that you claim was created by god–there are many many people who believe in a different god than you. It does not make buddists, muslims, taoists, athiests even, any less moral than you. I see no reason to turn the USA into a theocracy by taking a single, limited, biased viewpoint on morality and what is proper.
I, for one, am extremely greatful I have a right to speak up, regardless of the opinions my peers hold. It SHOULD be a great comfort to you that you are allowd to speak freely-- certain religions have been banned or not freely allowed to worship in the past and this would be a step in that direction. Many would call your eloquent tirade ‘spew’ as well.
What is this truth you speak of? Whose truth? Why is your truth of any more intrinsic value than mine? Why is your truth more appropiate than the truth as told by a muslim? a buddhist? (Go moral relativism!)
Best,
Matt
M
Margarite
Guest
I wouldn’t do it to say they were going to hell, but rather to protest their way of life which I know to be evil. If someone is gay, I am fine with that, but they must live a celibate life.
Marriage is the basis of a good family, a good family is the basis of a good community, etc… Marriage is between a man and a woman, that is the way God set it up, that is why Adam was a man and Eve a woman.
If you want to discuss whether God does or doesn’t exist, that is for another thread.
But this is a Catholic forum, Catholics are OK with people being gay, that is like being OK with someone having cancer, it is just there. Being gay is basically having a disorder. They can still live extremely full lives, but they must live celibate lives.
I am thinking about their souls, not making them feel good. I know that the “gay life” is evil, and I know that if people living that life die without repentance, they will go to hell. I really don’t want anyone on earth to go to hell, so I would protest their sin, I would do anything I could to try to get them to amend their ways. I dislike their “quiet day” because it is supporting acts that I believe will lead people to hell. I would be a horrible person if I didn’t want to stop them from going to hell, from spending eternity suffering. Don’t you think so?
Marriage is the basis of a good family, a good family is the basis of a good community, etc… Marriage is between a man and a woman, that is the way God set it up, that is why Adam was a man and Eve a woman.
If you want to discuss whether God does or doesn’t exist, that is for another thread.
But this is a Catholic forum, Catholics are OK with people being gay, that is like being OK with someone having cancer, it is just there. Being gay is basically having a disorder. They can still live extremely full lives, but they must live celibate lives.
I am thinking about their souls, not making them feel good. I know that the “gay life” is evil, and I know that if people living that life die without repentance, they will go to hell. I really don’t want anyone on earth to go to hell, so I would protest their sin, I would do anything I could to try to get them to amend their ways. I dislike their “quiet day” because it is supporting acts that I believe will lead people to hell. I would be a horrible person if I didn’t want to stop them from going to hell, from spending eternity suffering. Don’t you think so?
O
Other_Eric
Guest
It is instructive to me that in your latest response, you echo Pilate’s question to Christ: “what is truth?” (1) Like Pilate, it seems that the aim of your professed ignorance isn’t so much motivated by a search for the truth as it is an attempt to avoid it so that you may do as you wish. Even the diminished truths of Buddhists, Muslims, Taoists or atheists come to them through Christ, even though they may not recognize it.
This is not to say, nor is it meant to imply, that Christians possess some sort of monopoly on moral behavior. Indeed, any first year history student would be able to demonstrate that depravity is as constant a fixture in Christian communities as it is among others.
In the present thread we are discussing the Christian response to a number of homosexual activists who choose to remain silent to draw attention to their over-inflated notions of persecution. You have maintained that this is their “right” but cannot articulate any principle on which this right rests other than some romantic beliefs about the merits of unrestricted speech and an inability to recognize any sort of truth.
I, on the other hand, am more than comfortable in asserting the absolute nature of truth and that it is knowable, along with my Buddhist, Muslim, Taoist and many atheist brothers. After all, in the absence of truth, we would be unable to point to any rights at all. As such, I can look upon any right, examine the purpose it is meant to facilitate and determine when that right is being used improperly.
Flowing from this examination, it can easily be seen that there exist a wealth of opinions on certain subjects which have no business being given a voice. I maintain that same-sex attractions are one of those subjects.
(1) New American Bible. Washington D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 2002. John 18:38. Available online at: usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john18.htm
L
leftistdestroye
Guest
Amendment I
**Congress shall make no law **respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I am not Congress. You are not Congress. None of us here are Congress. I have the right to smack mouth someone who insults my girlfriend. Nowhere does it say that I have to accept what others say or that I must take it. It is Congress that has to.
Why do you think that so much social engineering is done in schools or college campues? Because they can’t be shut down, because many get government money.
**Congress shall make no law **respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I am not Congress. You are not Congress. None of us here are Congress. I have the right to smack mouth someone who insults my girlfriend. Nowhere does it say that I have to accept what others say or that I must take it. It is Congress that has to.
Why do you think that so much social engineering is done in schools or college campues? Because they can’t be shut down, because many get government money.
D
Dale_M
Guest
uh…no you don’t. Physically attacking someone will get you arrested for battery. You can use the “fightin’ words” defense if you want, but I don’t think it will wash.
But you do have the right to tell off the guy who insults your girlfriend.
- Status