"Strange" things Jesus said..

[distracted]

Please list something “odd” Jesus said, something you don’t quite understand…

One thing He said that sounds odd is… (don’t know where it’s at in the bible but) He said we should hate everyone…

I interpret this to mean that if people stand between us & God, we need to start “hating” them… (as it were)…

so i guess that isn’t so strange… just sounds strange… to those who… well, havent been around people much

Yet some people seem to think there is some “other” meaning to that passage… that He didn’t really mean HATE… (I don’t agree)

another “Odd” thing is when he said that to be perfect, we should give up all our possessions and follow Him… (I think that is st Mk 10:17)

do you know anyone who DOES that???

 

[nsper7]

One thing He said that sounds odd is… (don’t know where it’s at in the bible but) He said we should hate everyone…

I interpret this to mean that if people stand between us & God, we need to start “hating” them… (as it were)…

Remember that linguistically, Greek and Hebrew (compare it to Genesis 29:31, 33, 35, where it says Leah was “hated”, but then look at Genesis 29:30, where it says Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah) can have difficulty expressing degree of comparison (i.e. great, greater, greatest), which is what the Genesis passage and the words of Jesus are addressing. Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah and we are told to love God more than other things, but if Jesus told us to truly “hate” and you take a literalistic interpretation, then you would have some serious contradictions.

another “Odd” thing is when he said that to be perfect, we should give up all our possessions and follow Him… (I think that is st Mk 10:17)

do you know anyone who DOES that???

Well, the Catholic Church addresses that issue pretty well (read the article on the evangelical counsels in the Catholic Encyclopedia).

We recognize that their is the requirements to be Saved (inherit eternal life) and these are called the precepts (or command[ment]s) of the Church and MUST be followed by all Catholics who wish to enter Heaven. Jesus tells the rich young man to give up his possessions and follow Him if he wants to be “perfect” and that is where the evangelical counsels, sometimes called the Counsels of Perfection, come in. If you want to do more than just the minimum, then one can choose to try and follow the counsels, but it is not a requirement for Salvation.

I’ll use myself as an example: I wish to be a Priest, which requires vows of celibacy (if I go through a religious order, which I am considering doing, then there are vows of poverty and obedience to the order tacked on). Now, this is all personal choice in the sense that I choose to want to be a Priest and, thus, am choosing to be willing to make certain sacrifices. This choice does not affect my Salvation since I am required to obey the precepts of the Church whether I am a layperson, a Priest, a Bishop or even the Pope.

 

[distracted]

Remember that linguistically, Greek and Hebrew (compare it to Genesis 29:31, 33, 35, where it says Leah was “hated”, but then look at Genesis 29:30, where it says Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah) can have difficulty expressing degree of comparison (i.e. great, greater, greatest), which is what the Genesis passage and the words of Jesus are addressing. Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah and we are told to love God more than other things, but if Jesus told us to truly “hate” and you take a literalistic interpretation, then you would have some serious contradictions.

well, i don’t find a lot of people, those who don’t really do waht Jesus says, to be very “lovable” so i don’t have a problem with the word Hate… people often put their relationships with people over their relationship with God… and so, in that case, it would be better to 'hate"…

We recognize that their is the requirements to be Saved (inherit eternal life) and these are called the precepts (or command[ment]s) of the Church and MUST be followed by all Catholics who wish to enter Heaven. Jesus tells the rich young man to give up his possessions and follow Him if he wants to be “perfect” and that is where the evangelical counsels, sometimes called the Counsels of Perfection, come in. If you want to do more than just the minimum, then one can choose to try and follow the counsels, but it is not a requirement for Salvation.

.

but we must be “perfect” to enter the kingdom of Heaven… (Revel 21:27, etc)…

If we do not give up everything in this world to follow him (give it up in our hearts, at least… which is not as easy as it may sound). we will have to go through something much harder, murch worse in Purgatory… and worse, we may get so attached to our possessions that we don’t even… do other things Jesus wants… and end up in Hell (St Mt 25;31)

doing our Purgatory in the next life is Far more excrutiating (saints tell us) than doing it here… In Purgatoyr, we will probably WiSH we had given up our possessions… it will probably seem like a walk in the park to live like… a bum… compared to what we undergo in Purg…

 

[Cluny]

another “Odd” thing is when he said that to be perfect, we should give up all our possessions and follow Him… (I think that is st Mk 10:17)

do you know anyone who DOES that???

What do you think the monastic life is all about?

 

[tito]

Distracted, Jesus did say in Luke 14:26 that to be His disciple you were to hate family members, even your own life. But in context, He was addressing the counting of the cost to follow Him, to be His disciple. As one reads the verse what I understand He is saying is that our love for Him ought to be such that our love for family and our own life may appear as if it was hate in comparison. To follow Him requires that we bear our cross, forsake all and be ready to accept others hating us as He was hated. History is full of christian stories of martyrdoom for many followers. Peter earned his cross and Paul lost his head over this.

Also Luke 12:51-53 Jesus said He came to bring division. Taking v.51 “Suppose ye that I am come to bring peace on earth? I tell you Nay; but rather division”. In the Jewish family setting of his time, some in the household believed He was the Messiah, but some did not. I can see how that could have cause a war zone in those households! This is an important point for many in Judaism today do not accept Jesus for, among other things, not bringing peace among men. His intent was to bring first peace between man and God which He accomplished at the cross. And when He returns a 2nd time He will then bring the peace among men written of in Ezekiel 40-48. As you said, some things do sound strange in the Bible.
Tito

 

[seraphime2008]

Hi…

Since this is a thread about the things that Jesus said that you don’t understand, please enlighten me whoever understands what Jesus meant when He said sort of ( I cannot quote the exact verse, I have to go find it, takes time…) that some of His disciple wouldn’t die until they see He returns as the King. I sometimes tempted to believe that bible somehow indicates a certain implication of “re-incarnation”. This verse I think indicates that as well as the verse that said John the Baptist was Elijah who came back.

Anyone can help…?
Thanks.

 

[Cluny]

He said sort of ( I cannot quote the exact verse, I have to go find it, takes time…) that some of His disciple wouldn’t die until they see He returns as the King.

That’s a misquote.

Here is the correct verse:

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Note the word “some”

The Kingdom of God came with power on the day of Pentecost. Judas was dead by then.

 

[Benadam]

when Jesus spoke of hating others for his sake He was teaching that the dignity of spiritual bonds was of a higher order than the the dignity of blood bonds.

This kind of ‘hating’ is demonstrated in almost every Saint’s life. Conversion almost always is accompanied by opposition. Mostly by our closest family. If one is not able to put the spiritual bond Christ has formed with us over earthly formed bonds then Jesus teaches we are not worthy of Him.

An odd saying, although I know it’s meaning is this, and I paraphrase;

of all men born of women there is no greater than John the Baptist.

 

[Benadam]

That’s a misquote.

Here is the correct verse:

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Note the word “some”

The Kingdom of God came with power on the day of Pentecost. Judas was dead by then.

Also the first martyr St Stephen saw it. When he was being stoned, before he passed away he looked up and said; 'I see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven"

 

[nsper7]

but we must be “perfect” to enter the kingdom of Heaven… (Revel 21:27, etc)…

If we do not give up everything in this world to follow him (give it up in our hearts, at least… which is not as easy as it may sound). we will have to go through something much harder, murch worse in Purgatory… and worse, we may get so attached to our possessions that we don’t even… do other things Jesus wants… and end up in Hell (St Mt 25;31)

doing our Purgatory in the next life is Far more excrutiating (saints tell us) than doing it here… In Purgatoyr, we will probably WiSH we had given up our possessions… it will probably seem like a walk in the park to live like… a bum… compared to what we undergo in Purg…

One does not go to Purgatory for failing to adhere to the optional evangelical counsels, one goes to Purgatory because of sin which has not been paid for temporally. My understanding is that failing to adhere to the evangelical counsels is not a sin, either mortal or venial.

 

[Cluny]

Also the first martyr St Stephen saw it. When he was being stoned, before he passed away he looked up and said; 'I see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven"

Another misquote.

Here’s what was said:

Acts 7:56.

“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

 

[Benadam]

Another misquote.

Here’s what was said:

Acts 7:56.

“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Thanks Cluny. I forgot about the hand of God part.

More fitting since Stephen’s stoning is a type of inaugural demonstration of the power of that hand…

 

[seraphime2008]

***That’s a misquote.

Here is the correct verse:

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Note the word “some”

The Kingdom of God came with power on the day of Pentecost. Judas was dead by then.***

I am convincing myself often whether to grasp this understanding as what you said, there were times when I was so inclined to believing the New Age teaching of re-incarnation as well as keeping myself as Catholic (which is kind of impossible as most people might find) using those kind of verses to describe that the bible has sort of verses that support the “re-incarnation”.
The problem with your ans is that when Jesus said that verse, it didn’t seem to fit the stressing of period of time of not tasting the death if only it meant just a few months away (since the Pentecost seemed just a few moths away). If it only meant that they would eventually died until the coming of the Holy Spirit, why in such a sentence ? If only you know what I mean .

Anyway, your explanation didn’t ans enough my other inquiries of John the Baptist was Elijah who came back.

I sometimes think that re-incarnation perhaps answer some mysteries of life as to there were early men who didn’t know the concept of Trinity, let alone God the ultimate Creator, as the evolutionist think.

I know I’m venturing to the unknown territory.
Anyone has convincing ans?
Thanks

 

[seraphime2008]

I’ve searched the Bible, and this is the verses that said about what I asked above about Elijah had returned, which I found strange and need explanation:

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent take it by force.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John

Mat 11:14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come

Now, anybody willing to participate in this discussion?

 

[Benadam]

I’ve searched the Bible, and this is the verses that said about what I asked above about Elijah had returned, which I found strange and need explanation:

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent take it by force.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John

Mat 11:14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come

Now, anybody willing to participate in this discussion?

This is how I’m seeing that.
Elijah was taken up and hasn’t experienced death. That’s an extraordinary state of being. I think it’s because of being in that state that he became someone being understood as ‘coming’. I think the spirit of prophecy was put in the hand of Elijah, Elijah sat at the right hand having been taken up.

Elijah manifested Jesus’ resurrection in the sight of his diciple. Who with a double measure of Elijah’s spirit began a project on earth made complete in John the Baptist.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I’ve searched the Bible, and this is the verses that said about what I asked above about Elijah had returned, which I found strange and need explanation:

Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent take it by force.

Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John

Mat 11:14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come

Now, anybody willing to participate in this discussion?

this is from: rc.net/wcc/readings/matt11v2.htm

John the Baptist bridges the Old and New Testaments. He is the last of the Old Testament prophets who point the way to the Messiah. He is the first of the New Testament witnesses and martyrs. He is the herald who prepares the way for Jesus the
Messiah. Jesus confirms that John has fulfilled the promise that Elijah would return to herald the coming of the Messiah (Malachi 4:5). Jesus declares that John is nothing less that the great herald whose privilege it was to announce the coming of the Messiah.
Jesus equates the coming of his kingdom with violence. John himself suffered violence for announcing that the kingdom of God was near. He was thrown into prison and then beheaded.

 

[Cluny]

Anyway, your explanation didn’t ans enough my other inquiries of John the Baptist was Elijah who came back.

To be reincarnated, as I understand it, you have to die first.

Elijah never died, but was translated into heaven in a fiery chariot while still living.

It was in his physical body he appeared at the Transfiguration of Jesus.

One fault with the doctrine of reincarnation is that it denies that our physical bodies are essential parts of our human nature.

Sorry. It’s only one body per person. Period.

 

[po18guy]

As to the OP, I have heard it put that the verb to “hate” was more correctly interpreted as to “prefer less”, rather than to “hate” in the contemporary sense. See:

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.”

Also, consider this quote from our Lord, who was believed to be speaking of John the Baptist:

Mark 9:13 “But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him.”

Brother Bob Fischmann spoke of this on EWTN, regarding Elijah returning before the Messiah. At each Jewish Seeder meal, an extra place is set for Elijah, who is to precede the Messiah. It occurs to this day. Thus, Jesus referred to John as the new Elijah, since he prepared the way for the Lord (Messiah).

Christ’s peace.

 

[distracted]

Distracted, Jesus did say in Luke 14:26 that to be His disciple you were to hate family members, even your own life. But in context, He was addressing the counting of the cost to follow Him, to be His disciple. As one reads the verse what I understand He is saying is that our love for Him ought to be such that our love for family and our own life may appear as if it was hate in comparison. To follow Him requires that we bear our cross, forsake all and be ready to accept others hating us as He was hated. History is full of christian stories of martyrdoom for many followers. Peter earned his cross and Paul lost his head over this.

very well said… I have “hated” pepole (even as i love them… loving people is the 2nd greatest Commandment)… because they tried to (one way or other) keep me from doing what i felt Jesus wanted… It is sometimes hard to break away from comfortable relationships (etc) and do this kind of thing… but love of Jesus compels a person to do “different” seemingly odd things… that others do not understand… For one thing, when one walks with Jesus, one finds out tht He wants something in particular from him/her… something he doesn’t necessarily want from anyone else… (or it would be hoped this kind of thing would happen? Frankly, i think i have missed the boat… but tht’s another story… )…

Also Luke 12:51-53 Jesus said He came to bring division. Taking v.51 “Suppose ye that I am come to bring peace on earth? I tell you Nay; but rather division”. In the Jewish family setting of his time, some in the household believed He was the Messiah, but some did not. I can see how that could have cause a war zone in those households! This is an important point for many in Judaism today do not accept Jesus for, among other things, not bringing peace among men. His intent was to bring first peace between man and God which He accomplished at the cross. And when He returns a 2nd time He will then bring the peace among men written of in Ezekiel 40-48. As you said, some things do sound strange in the Bible.

                                                                                                  Tito

again, well said.

I always did feel uncomfortable about taht word peace… (except as pertains to war… If by peace one means the absence of war, i’m all for that…) but there never will be peace in this world as long as there is sin, particularly mortal sin… (abortion being the worst… which is now legal in every country, i believe… etc…)

If people were busy working out their salvation with fear & trembling as per Phil 2;12… this world would be a much better place… there would be no time for war… there would be no big sins committed like abortion…

but so few seem to be on that narrow road to salvation… (Mt 7:20)

i hope everyone prays their rosaries as much as possible… Mary says that things can change in the world through the rosary… and from what i can tell … she says that that is the ONLY way things will change… (virtally the only way)…

 

[distracted]

What do you think the monastic life is all about?

i know of Monks who watch a lot of TV… and not educational shows either…

and some… well, you wouldn’t even be able to tell they were monks… if you didn’t know better…

ther are many weird things happening in the Church… i don’t thikn more than about 30% are real Catholic Christians…