Struggles with Allegations

[Bon_Croix]

Yes, Saul Alinsky, perpetrator of deception. Maybe, related to Ayn Rand?

 

[Crusader13]

I hope this is the right category. New to the forum and this is my first post. I am a 56 year old, cradle Catholic man and I am struggling (once again) with the newest abuse allegations and the Churches reaction, or lack thereof to these allegations. How do you deal with these allegations when they come to light? I do pray for all involved in these horrific betrayals of trust. Other than pray, how do you stay Catholic? Sometimes it seems to me that the Church gives ample reason NOT to stay. Guidance would be greatly appreciated. Peace.

It’s a sad issue for sure. Reading some of the victim’s stories about how the Church failed them is truly heartbreaking and it can definitely change your view of the Church and God in general. I’ve never subscribed to the Matthew 16:18 approach to dealing with these issues. Yes, God’s Church will overcome evil, but that doesn’t mean we, as the laity, are relegated to mere observers and are therefore meant to sit back and watch as the Church loses battle after battle, only to one day win the War at the end of time.

Regardless of what others may think or believe, I’ve seen first hand how bad Priests can damage the church and hurt the faithful. There is an epidemic among the USCCB and it’s caused by not only pedophile & gay priests, but those who are turning a blind eye to their actions. When talking to non-catholics about this issue, I don’t dismiss their concerns or try to diminish the impact that it’s having on the faithful. These corrupt clergy need to be removed from the Church and it’s way past the time for the good men and women of the Church to stand up against them and to call them out for their crimes.

 

[resolute]

Other than pray, how do you stay Catholic?

I stay Catholic by realizing that I am in the Church that Jesus founded. Were else is there to go? The devil wants us to jump ship because without the sacraments we will become spiritually weak, more weak than we already are. And then he has us where he wants us.

I remind myself of Jesus in the boat with the disciples when they were in the midst of a great storm and taking on water. They were crying out “Don’t you care?” Jesus is with us now, even though he appear to be “sleeping”, and just as with the disciples He will save us from drowning.

Should the smoke of satan infiltrate the church we must stay and pray and work to sure up the cracks. We must do what we can to drive it out, not let ourselves be driven out by it.

It is understandable to get discouraged and even fearful, but we must. stay. the course. Holy Mother Church is prefigured by Noah’s Ark and those inside will be saved. So of course the devil means to drive us out. He can’t pluck us out of God’s hand by force, so he must entice us to leave of our own accord - don’t give him the satisfaction!

Get buckled up, pray for an increase in the theological virtue of faith, and stay close to Jesus in the sacraments. Devout communions and frequent confessions. Concentrate on amending your own life. Ask God for a share in the same grace that allowed Mother Mary to stand at the foot of the cross and not leave, even though what she loved seemed destroyed.

 

[CilladeRoma]

We must pray, but we also need to have our voices heard.

People knew what was going on or had an idea, and they all let it continue to happen because they didn’t want to scandalize anyone.

Um, hello! Your inaction Bishop’s, is a scandal. How are we supposed to trust that you do the right thing now, since so many of you haven’t?

I will never lose my faith in Jesus but the Church has a lot of work to do before I ever trust some of her hierarchy again.

 

[JanetF]

I pray for the victims as well as the alleged perpetrators.
I remind myself that I’m not catholic because of the priests, bishops, Archbishops, cardinals or even the Pope!
You might try spending some time in Eucharistic adoration, if offered in your parish, or another parish close by. Spending time with Jesus always helps!

Remember that we are all human, we are all sinners, and that the gate of hell will not prevail against the Church.
The Church is much more than a few bad apples.

Also, put them into context of time. Most of these recent allegations are decades old. The USCCB has issued guidelines for dealing with these potential issues since the first allegations came to light and I have to trust that those new guidelines are making a difference.

 

[SeriousQuestion]

Most of the allegations are mostly old news that media wants to use. Other people like family members and teachers have a better chance at being a predator and they don’t get any special attention. For the most part priests, bishops and cardinals don’t don’t do these things and it is unfair for them to bear the bad reputation of the few bad ones.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Other people like family members and teachers have a better chance at being a predator and they don’t get any special attention.

Family member situations usually don’t even make the news at all. Courts often don’t even make the records publicly available if somebody is getting arrested or prosecuted.

As for teacher cases, although they get more publicity than they used to, there are a ton of teacher cases that also don’t make the news. There are blogs that do nothing but track teacher cases, and for every case that makes the news because it’s particularly egregious or the teacher is particularly attractive-looking, there are about 10 more that you never hear about at all.

Your kids are probably way more at risk in their public school than they are at a Catholic church these days.

 

[Joe_5859]

But most importantly, I am Catholic because I believe in the Real Presence of God in the Eucharist. That is how I can remain Catholic, that is why I remain Catholic, and no one else is going to take that away from me. If you attend mass to receive Our Lord in the Eucharist, you will continue to do so. If you are there for “people” then there is a problem.

That’s my response as well. I’m not going to let someone who has done despicable things keep me from the Eucharist. They have no such power over me, and I’m certainly not going to give it to them.

 

[Pattylt]

I am an outsider to your faith but I want to give my perspective on these scandals.
Yes, they are horrible BUT they occur in any organization where there are humans in position of power over others. It is NOT just a Catholic problem, it is a societal problem. When the scandals first started making the news I heard from many atheist groups almost glowing with glee at the humiliation of the Church. Then, reason took over and most realized that this is occurring everywhere and no organization is innocent of immoral people nor are any excused of it. It has happened with Rabbis, Pastors, Muslims, etc. It happens in the orphanages, daycare, and on and on.

Don’t blame your Church. Be someone that is now aware of problems and keep your eyes open. Know the proper steps to take if you think something is amiss. Help be a guardian of the innocent. Leaving the Church solves nothing and prevents nothing. If you do leave the Church have it be for theological reasons, not the fact that some humans do evil. We already know that.

I want everyone to know that not all evil atheists or agnostics condemn you or your Church because you have humans involved. I am glad that awareness has everyone keeping a better and maybe a bit more critical eye out and this will be a thing of the past, never to be repeated.

 

[HelenRose]

For awhile, my husband and I were foster parents of abused children. The experiences of working with these children, their families and the experience of dealing with competent and incompetent county and state social services workers and psychologists has left me with an array of mixed emotions and thoughts on the subject. But most of all it left me with the knowledge that the abuse of children and other sexual scandals are not problems that belong solely to the Catholic Church. I am grateful that the microscope is focused on the Church and I hope that it continues to be so. With the Grace of God, our Church will be purged of this shame. It will be purged of shame because the light of truth burns away the evil. This wonderful Church and Her message to the vulnerable, the unborn children, and to abused boys and girls, and the seduction of young men and young women, will not mean a thing if she is not cleansed from the evil of exploiting the vulnerable.

I wish that the same microscope would turn it’s attention to the abuses in schools, day care centers, youth centers, homes for the elderly and any place where the vulnerable exist. This is the problem for ALL organizations that strive to serve the vulnerable people of the world. Those good and wonderful people who serve must always be on guard to protect those they serve because the truth is, where there are vulnerable people, the wolves will gather. These wolves are smart, slick and without conscience. They not only know how to manipulate vulnerable people but are expert manipulators of the very institutions that try the hardest to serve mankind. They also know how to manipulate the press and public opinion.

 

[Ann_Stanton]

I saw on one website that an individual had been abusive in 1920. That person is long dead and how can we evaluate if they were abusive. It is almost 100 years ago that this abuse happened. The victims would be in their 90’s or 100 years old. I can understand going after people that are living or recently dead. I think our church needs to continue to weed out the fallen ones that are in our midst.

 

[womanatwell]

I think it is important to link to the statement from the President of the USCCB here about the “moral failures on the part of church leaders” which came out in light of the McCarrick affair. If it has been linked before in related threads, excuse the repetition. It is short and I think it is worth it to read or re-read very closely:

President of U.S. Bishops Conference Issues Statement on Course of Action Responding to Moral Failures on Part of Church Leaders | USCCB

To start, I am in no way advocating to leave the Catholic Church. But I think many are missing the point when they talk about crimes committed decades ago. This is about Church leadership. The cover-up of McCarrick continued until June of this year. The leadership in Harrisburg was trying to fight transparency up until this month until the report of the priests was released. In most of these sexual abuse cases of the Church throughout the world we found that crimes were covered up.

The president of the USCCB, Cardinal DiNardo, realizes this. From the statement:

"The accusations against Archbishop Theodore McCarrick reveal a grievous moral failure within the Church. They cause bishops anger, sadness, and shame; I know they do in me. They compel bishops to ask, as I do, what more could have been done to protect the People of God. Both the abuses themselves, and the fact that they have remained undisclosed for decades, have caused great harm to people’s lives and represent grave moral failures of judgement on the part of Church leaders.

He does not say, “well we already figured out how to handle our sex crime problems years ago, so no worries.”

Some say there are already procedures in place. If this McCarrick situation is the result of those procedures, they obviously need changing. Cardinal DiNardo shows his awareness of need for change in his statement. Many see the difference in the way priests and bishops are treated and the cases are handled.

DiNardo also talks of necessity for spiritual conversion. Though he talks of sexual immorality, there is even more going on here when pride gets in the way of truth.

Please read Cardinal DiNardo’s statement.

 

[CilladeRoma]

For the most part priests, bishops and cardinals don’t don’t do these things and it is unfair for them to bear the bad reputation of the few bad ones.

I used to think this way. Now, I have pretty much so lost all faith in the Bishop’s and the USCCB.

It is the fact that in the McCarrick case,far too many people knew something. And the fact that none of them came forward or did anything about it for 50 years is a problem. How did this man rise through the ranks? Who protected him and why?
How many more Bishop’s & Seminary Rector’s have pulled this crap? How many good men have been turned away from the priesthood because of men like McCarrick who abuse their power for their own perverted desires?

There is a lot of blame to go around, and all of it is deserved.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Other than pray, how do you stay Catholic? Sometimes it seems to me that the Church gives ample reason NOT to stay.

To me, leaving the Catholic Church because a priest turns out to be a horrible sinner would be the same thing as leaving the Catholic Church because the Baptismal font turns out to be infected with a parasite, or if the local cathedral turns out to have a massive plumbing problem.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Okay, I may not be very clever with my choice comparisons, but the point remains: Just because an instrument of God turns out to be messed up — even horribly so, that doesn’t mean we abandon God and the means He’s given us.

Indeed, Baptismal fonts go awry. But we don’t thereby get rid of Baptism.

Besides, most Baptismal fonts are just fine.

[I’m not making light of horrible scandals, or the fact that these things can shake people’s faith. I’m just saying that, like our confidence in Baptism, our faith should not be in the Baptismal font but in God, who works through Baptism. If the priest scandals are causing you to leave the Church, I’d question my motives for belief, in the first place: Is my faith in God, who works through the Church, or in men – ordained or not — who are and will always remain sinners?]

 

[FiveLinden]

As an unbeliever who has been following this closely I see no reason why it would shake the faith of a Catholic who accepted all of Church teaching. Why would it? But I think it reveals that as a human institution the Church has a lot of reforming to do. The new protocols to prevent abuse are very good. But the widespread pattern of secrecy, denial false hope for abusers and failure to encourage those abused to consider going to the police will take decade to eliminate. My own suggestions are: 1) Ensure half the positions in the College of Cardinals are held by women (not trying to start an argument on this, yes it is possible) 2) Eliminate celibacy for diocesan priests as recommended by the Australian Royal Commission on Institutional abuse 3) Have independent auditors with access to all files actively look at any reports of abuse and how they were handled 4) Require, before absolution, child abusers who are priests or religious to report their offending to their superiors. 5) Repeal the restrictions on homosexuals becoming priests, because this sends a wrong signal about the nature of the abuse problem. 6) Require all bishops and those who have been religious superiors to report on all cases of abuse they know of outside the seal of confession.

 

[Calliope]

If the Parish knew the baptismal font had a parasite, and did nothing about it and kept baptising babies and causing them harm, it would be harder to wink at I think. Especially if it was your child who was harmed as the result of long term systematic refusal to address the problem.

Of course in the case of the baptismal fountain I suppose you could find another Parish and hope they didn’t have the same problem, but the Catholic Church has a monopoly on God so it, sadly, can do what it wants and the people have nowhere to go. I’m surprised more haven’t left for the Orthodox Churches.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Those are good points, but I’m not sure you get the comparison.

If the parish kept baptizing babies in a messed up Baptismal font, and we make that parish/priest to be just as messed up, then we’re in my original comparison again: we’re talking about messed up church things/instruments gone wrong.

You don’t judge the entirety by what’s gone wrong.

The only reason you can call something a “scandal” – no matter how large and no matter how horrible and disgusting it is – is if it indeed distorts something. If the Catholic Church rested its belief and purpose in making messed up baptismal fonts, then there would be nothing awry about a messed up baptismal font in a church! There would be no scandal!

 

[catholic1seeks]

I’m surprised more haven’t left for the Orthodox Churches.

Why? Our motives should be Truth – no matter how well finite humans live up to that Truth.

Do we judge Peter by Judas?

Do we judge Jesus by Peter?

Do you think the Orthodox churches are only made up of saints? Are all other churches without scandal?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Some say there are already procedures in place. If this McCarrick situation is the result of those procedures, they obviously need changing.

McCarrick was essentially “out of office” for a decade before he resigned. He was not having any control over day to day operations of the church. He was just some old emeritus guy flying around doing diplomatic work.

I am more interested in the guys who are actually running the dioceses now, today, than those who left that post 11 years ago. I know there are some bad eggs who only recently got fired or who maybe are even still in there, but they are not in any dioceses that I frequent.

Not trying to minimize the problem, but you claiming the leadership is bad because of McCarrick is like saying US presidential leadership is bad based on something George Dubya Bush did. Old news.

 

[Irishmom2]

1. Ensure half the positions in the College of Cardinals are held by women (not trying to start an argument on this, yes it is possible)

Not trying to start an argument either, but no.
That is not going to happen, and even if it did, it is no guarantee that it would change the occurence.