Struggling Catholic here concerned about the catechism change by Pope Francis

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So I get that it was not infallible or anything but another user posted a comment that captures my worries:
“Honest question based on the responses here. How many heresies in the catechism can we have? It seems to me that this problem is way more important than people here are acting.

I don’t have a problem with poor phrasing in the CCC, but this is a different thing. This is a contradiction. What is everyone’s reaction if the divinity of Jesus is denied in the CCC? Both are heresies, you just care way more about one than the other.

The CCC is not like an infallible decree. I get that. But that being said, it’s a false teaching in the official catechism. Catholicism is not a religion of “hidden knowledge”.

To me, this whole thing is starting to look like a big boiling pot of water, and we’re the frogs not realizing were boiling to death.“

So was it a change in infallible doctrine? This user basically seems to be claiming that God would not let something like this happen to the Church’s official teaching guide if the Church was true. Any answers on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
What are you talking about?
New to CAF I see. Welcome!
If…you have an issue with a post in a thread, please post in that thread and address the issue with the user there
 
It wasn’t a user on this forum. Just a comment I saw on another Catholic discussion board. It is referring to the catechism change by Pope Francis on the death penalty
 
My take, based on limited knowledge: If there is a viable alternative to the death penalty - which ensures the safety of innocent human lives, then that alternative should/must be taken to spare the life even of the guilty.
 
Yeah Francis is my Pope, but Im not the biggest fan
 
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Isn’t this just a logical tidying up of the concept of “pro-life from conception to natural death”? Execution is most definitely not a natural death.
 
I don’t mind so much because I am not American. My country stopped the death penalty started it again and stopped it again before I was born.

I am kind of thankful that there is no death penalty, there are too many people who are going to have the lives of innocent people on their hands.
 
Inquisitor85 said:
“pro-life from conception to natural death”
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The “natural death” concept should be taken as an appeal to avoid laws that encourage euthanasia, not to abolish the death penalty.

In any case, the Western world has already pretty much eliminated the death penalty on its own. This recent Catechism change seemed to be specifically targeting the United States.
 
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It’s telling that there is a single citation in the new Catechism text change. It is a citation to a statement of…Francis.

You couldn’t cite the Fathers here of course, or previous popes, because they didn’t say what Francis is saying.

Does this deserve clarification? Of course it does. Has clarification been forthcoming? Not remotely. Despite repeated requests from the faithful (both clergy and laity).

Catechisms have their uses, but they are not Scripture and Tradition in and of themselves. And the pope cannot simply change doctrine because he has a whim to do so.

Put another way: the Church wasn’t wrong for millennia, only finally to find the fullness of enlightenment under Francis.
 
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TNCatholic said:
…

So was it a change in infallible doctrine? …
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It is not a change in infallible doctrine.

Catechism (February 8, 2018)
2267. Recourse to the death penalty on the part of legitimate authority, following a fair trial, was long considered an appropriate response to the gravity of certain crimes and an acceptable, albeit extreme, means of safeguarding the common good.

Today, however, there is an increasing awareness that the dignity of the person is not lost even after the commission of very serious crimes. In addition, a new understanding has emerged of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state. Lastly, more effective systems of detention have been developed, which ensure the due protection of citizens but, at the same time, do not definitively deprive the guilty of the possibility of redemption.

Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”,[1] and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.

[1] FRANCIS, Address to Participants in the Meeting organized by the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of the New Evangelization , 11 October 2017: L’Osservatore Romano , 13 October 2017, 5.
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The Catechism and the Pope change all the time. The Catechism under this Pope changed to reflect current teaching. It can change back.
 
Hoosier-Daddy said:
The Catechism and the Pope change all the time. The Catechism under this Pope changed to reflect current teaching. It can change back.
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Yes, and this change to the teaching on the death penalty has been in the works for a long time, beginning at least with JPII.
 
Well, yes and no. Has the collective thought been leaning to that end. Sure. But to say it has been “in the works” so as to imply collaboration by three popes on this issue is not accurate. The next pope can do as he wills to the catechism as can the one after that.

This is what I don’t politically understand about the current pontificate’s strategy of incrementalism and ambiguity. While accomplishing very little permanent change it opens the door to an era of governance in the Church that has been historically hard to experience. I think the narrative of continuity between popes is out the window here. Francis is pushing how far the Church will bend, and that could very well be informative. But either Francis or a future pope has a whole lot of cleaning up to do. And it won’t be easy. The vast majority of us will never ever be touched or affected by the death penalty. And in countries where it is employed vigorously it doesn’t matter what the CCC says. But yet we are all touched by the scandals, by the abuse, by the ambiguity of the Eucharist and a state of Grace, of the very definition of marriage and the purpose thereof.

it is telling that Francis had one phrase of note during a past world youth day “Make a mess”
This seems to be the narrative now. The problem is, as anyone with kids can tell you, that as fun as it is to “make a mess” Someone has to clean the mess up. And if we are still in the Making a mess phase, the parent in me is cringing something awful.
 
My perspective is that even if a pope came along and did something crazy like same sex couples are welcome to marry in the church, it would not change what I do in the morning. Get up, be united to Christ and our blessed mother to pray for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world as was asked at Fatima. I would still work in the field of the Lord because I am the Lord’s. Sinful men and women come and go but my eyes are on the prize. It’s pretty hard to shock me at this point. Take care of the business that’s yours to take care of and be like the servant who is ready when the Bridegroom comes.

The other scripture that comes to mind is the disciples in the boat and the wind and waves come. Jesus walks to them on water, Peter gets out of the boat. He starts to sink when he sees around him and his eyes are off the Lord. All of us are in that boat today and there’s a storm. Stay focused.
 
Sorry, but you’re wrong here. The Church recognizes instances where it is moral to kill, such as in war or to protect your life when attacked by another. And until recently, it also recognized to authority of a state to execute prisoners for grevious crimes or to prevent further loss of life.
 
Ethically, I see nothing wrong with Catholics being opposed to the death penalty. But I don’t think it was necessary to rewrite a paragraph in the CCC. I can only repeat what I posted here at the time:
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Pope revises catechism to say death penalty is 'inadmissible' Social Justice
I suspect he may be making a mistake – once again, getting the Church too closely mixed up in politics. We know what the Latin American bishops now say about Liberation Theology. “When the Church made its preferential option for the poor, the poor made their preferential option for the Pentecostals.”
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