Struggling with Eastern religions

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Susansdec

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Hello again… I’m a convert to Catholicism… my catechesis hasn’t been too good maybe… But for the last few years I have been really interested in Buddhism and Hinduism and philosophy… but when I pray the rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and even when I go to adoration I feel something special there… I feel some kind of presence there … I do not want to be deceived or led astray though… But like Pope Francis said a while back… There is a lot of gnosticism and pelagianism… And I would add Freemasonry too… but I do consider myself to be a Seeker… and I was raised Baptist and then became charismatic and the nondenominational… And I do find and take interest in Carl Jung and Alan Watts material…
 
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While there is lots to entertain, perhaps enlighten and distract out there, keep focused on the One who came that we might live forever. Rather than an emptying of self so as to avoid disappointment, or viewing life as an illusion, seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit. You will receive strength from on high, and suffering is transformed from an illusion; from a negative, into a positive.

If you are not in a comparative religions class, let them all alone until you are absolutely solid in your faith. There have been advanced Catholic spiritual seekers who were seduced by the eastern religions and not one of those religions was prophesied. Not one of their founders or leaders fulfilled all prophecy.

Go before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. You are not supposed or required to feel anytihng - emotions lead astray. Rather, you are intended to have confidence that the Holy Eucharist is a living presence of our Lord and Savior. And, He does not come to us without Father and Holy Spirit.

Be as patient with Him as He has been with you. And once you receive your consolation (not emotion!), you will be changed. At some point after that, you may look into other religions out of curiosity, but bear in mind that the prince of this world seeks always and everywhere to destroy you by seduction.

EDIT: the usual typos and omissions.
 
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Magnanimity said:
The Catholic Church has never claimed to be the sole repository of wisdom, truth or spiritual practice. Many Catholic greats of the 20th century were perfectly fine with assimilating the truths they found in Eastern spirituality (e.g., Thomas Merton and Thomas Keating).
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Although the truth of God can be found in some aspects of other religions and philosophies, it can only be found fully in the Catholic church.
 
Thank you…I think I’ve been put off by a lot of conservative Catholics…the one’s that don’t like Pope Francis…etc…and Catholics who obsess over apparitions of Mary…Fatima…etc…
 
Stop right there! Looking left and right and being distracted by sinners is one of the devil’s finest tricks! Consider:


Just as you see disappointing sinners - so do they! Pray for them! No prayer is ever wasted. Humble yourself and that vacuum of self will be filled by the Holy Spirit at your request. There is no place for the Spirit to reside in an arrogant, conceited or haughty soul. If you do not already have one, get a copy of The Imitation of Christ by Thomas á Kempis. Filled with enlightenment and a spiritual classic. There are many translations. I personally prefer Bishop Richard Challoner’s translation, as it is unpolluted by the dumbing down of modern prose.

www.goodreads.com

The Imitation of Christ

Only the Bible has been more influential as a source of…
www.goodreads.com www.goodreads.com
 
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I understand, it can be off-putting. But you’re now a part of the largest religion in the world! One that has (like Buddhism) very successfully spread itself far and wide and has been masterful in assimilating (and being assimilated by) the cultures into which it has spread. If you need to find Catholics who are like-minded to yourself to walk alongside you in your journey, you’ll find them. There is just so very much variety in this great Faith of ours, you’re bound to find them. If needed, you could even scootch on over to Eastern-rite Catholicism to see what that’s all about. And I know I specified Aquinas, but perhaps your spiritual acuity would be better suited to other “doctors of the church.” I think you’ll find Sts Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross and Catherine of Siena to be mind-blowing! (I know I have.)
 
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Your tastes and curiosity with regard to religion are apparently eclectic, and I think that is a good thing, not bad. At the same time, rather than plunging headlong into reading about Buddhism and Hinduism, it might be better for you as a Catholic convert to focus on learning and reading more about your own religion first, especially since you think your catechesis has perhaps not been too good. Then once you become stronger in your own faith, you can, out of intellectual curiosity, learn about other faiths. This way you are less likely to be tempted to convert (again) to another religion. In short, there is nothing wrong with seeking knowledge but, particularly in matters of faith, make sure you know about the breadth and depth and beauty of your own faith before taking the plunge.
 
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For me the difference came down to this:

Buddhist: “What is reality?”

Catholic: “Who is Reality?”
 
I find your position a little disturbing. Does the Church teach it has everything?

I am the Truth, the Way and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me.

OP: I’d avoid the Eastern religions in their entirety. They’ve nothing to offer that Catholicism doesn’t.

Look at Ignatian spirituality. Their concept of detachment or non attachment, superficially sounds very Buddhist; is actually quite superior to Buddhist non attachment. Precisely because of the First Principle and Foundation that says the First Principle is that I’m made to praise, revere and serve God; thus save my soul.

The Foundation is to be unattached to created things and desires and cultivate interior freedom from undue interior movements so one can make decisions, free of attachments; that praise, revere and serve God and save my soul above all else.

I’ve tried assimilating Eastern ideas in to Catholic spirituality. Doesn’t work. They aren’t compatible at all. Like Shikantaza. In it, the meditator simply watches thoughts and feelings rise and fall while you’re not supposed to chase after them. Useful as a calming technique; but doesn’t lead to spiritual growth in Christ.

I remember once emptying myself of everything, including my Self; as nothingness and illusion. Scariest moment of my life other than demonic assault. Sunyata, or formlessness; basically posits that nothing is real; everything is nothingness and illusion.

That’s the point of Buddhist spiritual practice is the arrival at sunyata. That’s their Nirvana.

Not release from suffering; as many Westerners seem to believe.

Plus, the Holy Father, I forget which one; wrote in A Christian Reflection on the New Age; to avoid mixing Eastern and Christian styles of meditation.

As far as I know: Wasn’t Keating the one who came up with Centering Prayer and I’ve heard Centering Prayer called non Catholic on EWTN Catholic radio?
 
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In none of those other religions God himself becomes man and enters human history to redeem us and be a perfect example to follow. In none of them the founder, the inner circle of followers and thousands upon thousands are martyred for their faith for 300 years.
If you are sincere open your heart and let the Holy Spirit in. You can learn about other faiths in a comparative religion class. Trust me, you will be disappointed in all of them when you look at them closely.
 
I’m still convinced that Gnosticism is good… especially the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas… that one really resonates with me…
 
Oh, no. Gnosticism isn’t good at all. I’d advise against it. It’s an out and out heresy.

What draws you to it?
 
I’m not talking about fear.

I’m talking about ultimately the Eastern religions are valueless except for whatever cognitive techniques they contain. None of their theology, cosmology or soteriology has any help for a Christian. They’re interesting philosophies at best. I speak from experience; as I practiced Zen Buddhist and Taoist meditation before I found Catholic spirituality on my way home to the Church.

The Eastern spiritualities aren’t compatible with Catholic emphasis on Jesus and/or Mary as the Eastern spiritualities are mainly about emptying one’s mind or soul.

Catholic spirituality focuses on emptying ourselves and filling us up with Christ.

As for Centering Prayer; I’m not interested in it. It sounds like the contemplative prayer of the Cloud of Unknowing. Wasn’t much help for me. Praying the Rosary and Marian contemplation, as well as Ignatian prayer; is much more effective IMO.

If there’s any stain a potential heresy in Centering Prayer; I want no part of it.
 
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Susansdec said:
Hello again… I’m a convert to Catholicism… my catechesis hasn’t been too good maybe… But for the last few years I have been really interested in Buddhism and Hinduism and philosophy… but when I pray the rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and even when I go to adoration I feel something special there… I feel some kind of presence there … I do not want to be deceived or led astray though… But like Pope Francis said a while back… There is a lot of gnosticism and pelagianism… And I would add Freemasonry too… but I do consider myself to be a Seeker… and I was raised Baptist and then became charismatic and the nondenominational… And I do find and take interest in Carl Jung and Alan Watts material…
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Unfortunately, your post here is a bit scattered and it’s unclear what the issue is. What exactly is the problem? Is it that you’ve “been really interested in Buddhism and Hinduism and philosophy”? Okay, so what specifically is the issue? Is there an argument in favor of those religions you are unsure how to answer? Is there something you like in them that isn’t in Catholicism? Your post is very vague as to exactly what you’re struggling with.
 
I find Buddhism and Hinduism much more appealing and they resonate more with me…
 
We’re only authentically drawn by what we perceive to be true and of real value. Keep seeking truth because ‘all truth is God’s truth’ as Augustine put it, and all seeking for truth is a seeking for Him.

In my experience an honest and persistent seeking for truth will ultimately lead one to Christianity, and to Catholicism more specifically. But wisdom and truth and beauty can be found and appreciated in other disciplines as well- just not enough to be sufficiently satisfying, not enough to answer the “big” questions, as I experienced it.

I used to enjoy Alan Watts years ago too BTW, among many others.
 
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Actually, Mag; I’m not sure what to say right now.

There’s only three religions that truly scare me.

A: Islam.

B: Scientology.

C: Satanism.

The Hindu and Buddhist religions are fascinating. Don’t get me wrong.

Hinduism, beyond the deity cults; seems to be a rather philosophical religion and Buddhism is similar. The problem I have with Buddhism and Hinduism is the “ world as illusion “ and the Buddhist “ No Self “ concept are patently absurd to me.

We can see in everyday life that the objective world of flesh and matter is real. With the Buddhists, and if I wasn’t Catholic, I’d probably be Buddhist; I always ask: If there’s No Self; then what’s reincarnating life after life? They have no satisfactory answer to that question.

Taoism was a cool philosophy, and with Neoplatonism; was a good interim between Protestantism and Catholicism.

Just; here’s the thing: I do see value in Buddhism, Taoism and Neoplatonism. As philosophical systems that answer purely worldly questions to a reasonable degree. Although Neoplatonism offered a beautiful contemplative spirituality within the Western tradition.

The main problem I had in my younger days was that I didn’t know that there were beautiful contemplative Christian spiritualities until I came home to the Church.

The problem is that philosophy is too dry and intellectual for me; no heart as I see it. I need Heart in my spirituality. Once I discovered the contemplative Catholic spiritualities like the Ignatian and Marian spiritualities; I took off running and I could leave the outsider spiritualities behind. If that makes any sense.

But: Catholicism answers all of my metaphysical questions and supernatural worldview. Everything the Church teaches, I agree with. Instinctively.
 
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I agree with you, @fhansen.

I tried earnestly to make philosophical Taoism and Neoplatonism fit into a Catholic framework. The problem was the paganism that agglomerated onto these systems.

But, they only served as a philosophical interim until I earnestly began to practice Catholicism in RCIA and after I began praying the Rosary regularly.

After discovering the beauty of Catholic spirituality; I no longer needed the outsider systems to function as my spirituality within a Christian framework.
 
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Susansdec said:
I find Buddhism and Hinduism much more appealing and they resonate more with me…
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The core problem I have with Hinduism is this: Why should I believe this? Christianity all goes back to one event within definite history, Jesus’s ministry and the Resurrection. Now how obviously there are arguments concerning the historicity of the Resurrection, but the framework it occurred in–the first century of the Roman Empire–is a definite part of actual history. Hinduism, as far as I know, doesn’t go back to anything like that; it just sort of developed over time. That, to me, is not a sign of an actual basis of truth for a religion.

Buddhism is a bit different in that it actually does go back to an alleged person within actual history, but let’s compare it to Christianity. Buddha’s teachings weren’t written down until four centuries after his death. In contrast, even the most critical scholars will agree that the entire New Testament was written within a century of Jesus’s death–and that’s the full New Testament, things in it like Paul’s epistles are definitively dated much earlier. The earliest manuscripts we have of the Pali, the Buddhist version of the bible, are from the 4th century–about a millennia after the death of Buddha. The earliest manuscripts we have of the Bible are from 150 years from the death of Buddha–possibly less than a century, depending on how early you believe Papyrus 52 to be.

Simply put, if the evidence in favor of Christianity when it comes to records isn’t enough for someone, I don’t see how Buddhism could satisfy. And if the evidence in favor of Christianity is enough, then you should just throw Buddhism out because it’s not compatible with Christian teachings.
 
@JSRG I feel that Hinduism has a veritable tradition going back to early Indian history; if I remember right, the Brahmanical religion was an import from the Aryans.

I agree that Buddhism split into the three main schools early on after Gautama’s death and thus don’t carry much weight with me as to whether or not they authentically reflect what the Buddha actually taught. Sometimes, I wonder if Mahayana are heretics that looked down their noses on the Theravadins and the Vajrayana tradition is an overly mystical and ritualistic Buddhism that also probably doesn’t reflect the authentic teaching of the Buddha.

My other thoughts on Buddhism is the problem of Buddhist Modernists that try to adapt their message to Westerners and that’s what made its way into Western society.

Reading a little of the Tibetan Book of the Dead and other sources; the Buddhists have hells that scare Western Buddhists who think they escaped the Christian hell when they converted.
 
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