Struggling with lay ministers and the Eucharist

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A person can recieve from the priest. Period. There should not be situations at Mass where one cannot.
 
Hoosier-Daddy said:
Is that your same view of the transitional diaconate?
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Do you see any difference between the transitional diaconate and the permanent diaconate except for the permanence? I don’t actually know if there’s any other difference?
 
There is no difference - because there is but one diaconate.

Canonically there is nothing that separates deacons who remain so forever, or those who advance to priesthood.

The terms “permanent” and “transitional” aren’t different diaconates, or types of diaconate, - they are just imprecise labels to describe whether they are destined for the priesthood.

Deacon Christopher
 
LumineDiei said:
In other words, you reject receiving Jesus from someone the Church has authorized to distribute. Sorry, I don’t get it.
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I realize that. The very reason that it is Jesus, it is God, who gives me my very breath, is why I only want to receive Him in the most reverent way. I am allowed that choice and I made the decision to only recieve from a priest or deacon recently after seeing two separate incidences of irreverence during Holy Communion.
LumineDiei said:
? Kind of like refusing to receive from an EMHC if you cannot receive from a priest?
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Extraordinary ministers are that, extraordinary. Supplementary.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ocuments/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

This function is supplementary and extraordinary

To avoid creating confusion, certain practices are to be avoided and eliminated where such have emerged in particular Churches:
the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of “a great number of the faithful”.

Yes there is a place for lay ministers. I realize some Churches are packed full and need them and Easter and Christmas are extremely full and frequently need them now in the ordinary form of the Mass but they have become a norm. Even at weekday Mass at some parishes with low number of attendees they are overused. IMHO it is done in the name of “let’s hurry Mass and not let it go longer than the parishioners want because someone is bound to complain that Mass went too long and we have other things to do”.

What if the faithful prayed for more priests and we didn’t need the EMHC? What if we prayed that we no longer needed the unconsecrated hands handling the Body and Blood of Christ?

Perhaps we could lift our rosaries up for our priesthood, asking God to send us more priests and deacons.

Many Catholics are returning to the tradition of fasting and praying during Ember days. A tradition of the Church where Catholics would pray for our priests and ask God to send us more faithful priests. A lost and highly needed tradition.

aleteia.org

Praying and fasting for priests during Ember Days --Aleteia

The Church has a long tradition of praying for priests four times a year.
aleteia.org
 
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TheMortenBay said:
A Deacon is ordained to serve at the altar and preach the Gospel. With regards to the eucharist he’s no less an extraordinary minister than a layman. That’s how I see it anyway.
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Not so. In the Extraordinary Form the deacon is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, but in the Ordinary Form, he is an ordinary minister of holy communion, whereas the laity are extraordinary ministers.

These are not opinions but official Church discipline.
 
In the first post Flavius wrote: “I think having consecrated hands is important.”

In order to be ordained as a Priest a man is first required to become an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, he is required to be instituted as an acolyte. (By canon 1035 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law).

From the Rite of Institution of Acolytes:

“HOMILY

4 . Then all sit, and the bishop gives the homily, which he concludes by speaking to the candidates in these or similar words:

Dear sons in Christ, as people chosen for the ministry of acolyte, you will have a special role in the Church’s ministry. The summit and source of the Church’s life is the eucharist, which builds up the Christian community and makes it grow. It is your responsibility to assist priests and deacons in carrying out their ministry, and as special ministers to give holy communion to the faithful at the liturgy and to the sick. ”

(This is about the first third of the homily given in the book.)

Perhaps it would help to look at the liturgical rites by which some Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are commissioned.

From the Roman Missal:

“APPENDIX III

RITE OF DEPUTING A MINISTER TO DISTRIBUTE HOLY COMMUNION ON A SINGLE OCCASION.

1 . The Diocesan Bishop has the faculty to permit individual Priests exercising sacred duties to depute a suitable member of the faithful to distribute Holy Communion with them on a single occasion, in cases of real necessity.

2 . When one of the faithful is deputed to distribute Communion on a single occasion in such cases, it is fitting that a mandate to do so should be conferred according to the following rite.

3 . After the Priest Celebrant himself has received the Sacrament in the usual way, the extraordinary minister comes to the altar and stands before the Celebrant, who blesses him or her with these words:

May the Lord + bless you,

so that at the Mass you may minister

the Body and Blood of Christ

to your brothers and sisters.

And he or she replies:

Amen .

4 . If the extraordinary minister is to receive the Most Holy Eucharist, the Priest gives Communion to the minister. Then the Priest gives him or her the ciborium or vessel with the hosts or the chalice and together they go to administer Communion to the faithful.”

[Excerpt from the English translation of The Roman Missal © 2010 International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. Excerpt from the English translation of The Institution of Readers and Acolytes, The Admission to Candidacy for Ordination as Deacon and Priests © 1976, International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. All rights reserved.]
 
MagdalenaRita said:
Your comment kind of caught me off guard, because I had always heard that the priest’s hands were consecrated, so I googled it and here are just some places I found that says that they are consecrated. Consecration meaning to set apart or make holy for a specific purpose.

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...ation/faqs-priesthood-ordination-seminary.cfm

7. What does the anointing of the hands signify?

Anointing with oil stems from the Old Testament and indicates that someone or something is being set apart for a sacred task or duty. The anointing of the hands signifies that the hands of the newly ordained priest are being prepared for the sacred duties and vessels which will be part of the priestly ministry, for example, offering the bread and the wine, anointing the sick and blessing people. The bishop says as he anoints the hands: “The Father anointed our Lord Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. May Jesus preserve you to sanctify the Christian people and to offer sacrifice to God.”

http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur225.htm

During ordination a new priest’s hands are anointed with chrism as a sign of consecration and of the change that has been effected in his soul.

“The Life and Revelations of Anne Catherine Emmerich” by the Very Reverend Carl E. Schmoger

According to Blessed Anne Emmerich:
“The consecrated fingers of a priest will be recognizable in Purgatory; yes, even in Hell they will be known and they will burn with a particular fire."
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Thankyou for your research and the response. I’ve learned something new.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
Extraordinary ministers are that, extraordinary. Supplementary.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

This function is supplementary and extraordinary

To avoid creating confusion, certain practices are to be avoided and eliminated where such have emerged in particular Churches:
the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of “a great number of the faithful”.

Yes there is a place for lay ministers. I realize some Churches are packed full and need them and Easter and Christmas are extremely full and frequently need them now in the ordinary form of the Mass but they have become a norm. Even at weekday Mass at some parishes with low number of attendees they are overused.
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Thanks for posting this. I never would have found something like this. It explains some of my discomfort at a parish that always uses only extraordinary ministers for Holy Communion when Deacons really would be available, and they would add significantly to the parish life in general.

Wow…That quote was almost in the exact middle of the document.
 
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I think it is great that you are trying to be thoughtful and respectful of the Eucharist. I would still receive even it’s from a lay minister if you have to because it is still the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ no matter who is the minister of Holy Communion.
 
You are right-ish, Deacons are ordained, Priests are ordained, and Bishops are Consecrated. I am an Extrordinary Minister of Holy Communion (which is an improper term because I am not an ordained minister, but it is the proper term used by the church), and the only difference in recieving it from me or an ordained person, is that if you come for a blessing, I can only say something like “may God bless you” and touch your shoulder, rather than give the pastoral blessing (sign of the cross over you). This is the only difference, the grace comes exclusively from God himself, and your reception of Christ in the Eucharist. At that moment, I am merely a vessel acting as an extension, who was given the Eucharist, and from there am giving it to you, a priest, were he concelebrating, would be doing likewise.
 
In my diocese receiving both species at least on Sundays Holy Days of Obligation, and certain other days like Holy Thursday is the norm, so we really need the EMCHs to help with the chalices, especially at my parish which has 3 roughly equal sized naves in the sanctuary and often has 300+ people at one Mass even with 7 people administering the Host (2 for each nave, and one who takes it to those who have difficulty moving (in wheelchairs, etc) and 6 administering the Challices, it takes a good 5 to 10 minutes, so it is impractical to have only the Ordinary Ministers distributing, for the entire parish we have 3 priests no retired priests, and 2 deacons with 1 retired deacon who occasionally helps. this means that with 6 Masses a weekend (5 on Sunday and a vigil), we in no way can handle the stress of using only Ordinary Ministers. I would also note that a Priest is no more worthy to distribute it than a layperson, just qualified as the one whose job it should be if there is the reasonable ability to do so, I don’t know about your parish, but a mine the Mass could easily go on an extra 15+ minutes it doesn’t need to, (which is going well beyond St. Thomas Aquinas’ established ideal) just for the pride of people being able to receive it from the ordinary minister over a properly trained and chosen substitute.
 
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Michael_Anthony said:
In my diocese receiving both species at least on Sundays Holy Days of Obligation, and certain other days like Holy Thursday is the norm, so we really need the EMCHs
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Just don’t distribute the chalice (on holy days of obligation). They do it in my parish too, but reserving the chalice for practical reasons is not wrong. I’d argue it’s better to have no EMCH and no chalice. In a neighbouring parish there’s only communion under the one species in holy days, and then you can receive under both species on another day.
The chalice is not a right of the people and no special grace is bestowed on connection with receiving under both species.
 
I would like to remind you to remember who it is that you are receiving when you receive Holy Communion.
Once during the time of St Teresa de Avila there was a certain priest who was having an affair with a woman. It was enough of a scandal that Teresa was aware of it. Once while she was at this priest’s mass, Jesus appeared to her and said, "My love for you is so great that I allow myself to pass through the hands of this enemy of mine (That is what mortal sin is) so that I can be with you.
 
Beautiful story. I also don’t have any quarrel with anyone serving their parish priest by being an extraordinary minister or with any priest using extraordinary ministers when it is necessary. It just usually isn’t in my experience.
 
I am concerned, as I hope others are, by some of the comments that are stating that it doesn’t matter who distributes the host because it is still the Body and Blood of Christ.
It is true it is still the Body and Blood of Christ and because of that very reason it does matter who distributes the host. I am not saying we shouldn’t have EMHC but it should not be the norm. It is the priest standing in persona Christi which makes him the minister of communion. No one else besides a priest stands in the place of Christ.
 
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A deacon is an Ordinary Minister of the Eucharist. His hands are not consecrated.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
I am concerned, as I hope others are, by some of the comments that are stating that it doesn’t matter who distributes the host because it is still the Body and Blood of Christ.
It is true it is still the Body and Blood of Christ and because of that very reason it does matter who distributes the host. I am not saying we shouldn’t have EMHC but it should not be the norm. It is the priest standing in persona Christi which makes him the minister of communion. No one else besides a priest stands in the place of Christ.
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It is interesting how quickly we’ve forgotten that it’s by virtue of an indult that extraordinary Eucharistic ministers were and are permitted.
 
Michael_Anthony said:
In my diocese receiving both species at least on Sundays Holy Days of Obligation, and certain other days like Holy Thursday is the norm, so we really need the EMCHs to help with the chalices, especially at my parish which has 3 roughly equal sized naves in the sanctuary and often has 300+ people at one Mass even with 7 people administering the Host (2 for each nave, and one who takes it to those who have difficulty moving (in wheelchairs, etc) and 6 administering the Challices, it takes a good 5 to 10 minutes, so it is impractical to have only the Ordinary Ministers distributing, for the entire parish we have 3 priests no retired priests, and 2 deacons with 1 retired deacon who occasionally helps. this means that with 6 Masses a weekend (5 on Sunday and a vigil), we in no way can handle the stress of using only Ordinary Ministers. I would also note that a Priest is no more worthy to distribute it than a layperson, just qualified as the one whose job it should be if there is the reasonable ability to do so, I don’t know about your parish, but a mine the Mass could easily go on an extra 15+ minutes it doesn’t need to, (which is going well beyond St. Thomas Aquinas’ established ideal) just for the pride of people being able to receive it from the ordinary minister over a properly trained and chosen substitute.
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It absolutely seems that extraordinary ministers are required in this situation.

Of course, there were large parishes before this practice and distribution was not a problem for two reasons: 1) Communion rails move very quickly in almost assembly line fashion. I’ve never witnessed communion taking long at an EF Mass. 2) Not everyone received. Today it’s rare to see anyone abstain but in the past people perhaps better understood the relationship between confession and the Eucharist.
 
Then why may the deacon touch the consecrated species with his hands?
 
For something that is supposedly “extraordinary”, they sure are common.

I sometimes can’t help but chuckle a tiny bit on Sunday when I see the usual legion of “extraordinary” lay mininsters gather at the altar to distribute communion. It’s definitely overkill at many parishes.

Don’t get me wrong. I’ve been an “extraordinary” minister before. But while there may be times that EMC’s are necessary, it is an allowance that is being exploited in many parishes.

I’m not dissing the EMC’s personally, but I always try to receive from a priest or deacon, and always on the tongue while kneeling (ohhh I bet that last part ruffles a few feathers here). 🙂

Peace
 
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