Struggling with mary and saints

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So many good answers already - don’t know what I can add except to say…

Yes I have struggled with this - and to an extent, I still do.

First let me say that there is nothing in Catholic teaching that requires to pray to the saints. So my first piece of advice is this - If it is a struggle, then don’t do it.
Pray in the manner most comfortable for you.

Then - continue reading and studying on this simply as part of learning more about the Church. As time goes on you will probably find yourself more comfortable with prayer to the saints and it will come naturally.

The most important thing is to not stress over it…

In regards to the “Hail Holy Queen” prayer, let me recommend THIS THREAD from a while back. It really answers a lot of the question…

Overall - the same as I said above - there is no requirement that we pray to the saints in our private devotions. So if one is uncomfortable with it - just don’t do it. Continue to pray directly to the Father ( that is what I do mostly too).

Peace
James
Hello James.
What you do when these devotions to saints are practiced in the church, for example if priests starts talking about our Lady of Fatima, or if the whole parish is singing songs during mass which has devotion to a saint? You just do not sing along?
I like what you say, but is it realistic? I met so many Catholics that try to convince me I am wrong, that I need to pray about this and get enlightened, and I am not getting all that I need because I do not feel comfortable with much Marian devotion.
 
Hello James.
What you do when these devotions to saints are practiced in the church, for example if priests starts talking about our Lady of Fatima, or if the whole parish is singing songs during mass which has devotion to a saint? You just do not sing along?
Frankly I don’t have much problem with such public devotion.
If the priest begins talking about our Lady - or some other saint I view it simply as a lesson to be listened to and absorbed. Likewise I have no real problem with songs to our Lady…Some of the most beautiful hymns (IMHO) are to her.
So, again - the advice is to not stress over it.
I like what you say, but is it realistic? I met so many Catholics that try to convince me I am wrong, that I need to pray about this and get enlightened, and I am not getting all that I need because I do not feel comfortable with much Marian devotion.
Yes I have met such people too…right here at CAF in fact…;).
For the most part I have given up debating with such people.
They are entitled to their opinion and I am sure that their comments are meant to help me…
But -
If need be I will inform such people of the same facts that I shared here…
That not teaching of the Church requires us to pray to the saints. Yes the Church teaches that such prayer is permissible and efficacious but she does not require it.
I will also inform them that it is not that I don’t have a devotion to our Blessed Mother…I love her very much…rather i simply do not express that devotion in the same way that they do.

Consider this - -
The last words of Mary recorded in the Bible are, “Do whatever He tells you” (John 2:5). In regards to prayer, Jesus tells us to pray thus…"Our Father Who are in heaven…(Mt 6:9-13).
Am I somehow slighting Mary by doing what she and Jesus have instructed me to do?

Also consider - -
The argument is made that Mary leads us to Jesus, - that is her desire - to lead us to Jesus. So - If we go to Jesus in prayer, if we go to the Father in prayer, have we somehow slighted her? Isn’t this what she wants us to do?

Devotion to Mary is a wonderful thing. She is our heavenly Mother and we should be devoted to her…but there are many ways that we can be devoted and show that devotion. When others try to force you into their particular form…just thank them for their (name removed by moderator)ut and drop the matter.

One more comment on the idea of being comfortable with praying to Mary and the other saints…
As stated above, Mary desires to lead us to Jesus - - And if we think about it, we can reverse this a bit and ask Jesus to teach us about his Mother…I did a thread on this a while back…“Dear Jesus…Tell me about your mom…
You might find it interesting…

Peace
James
 
I’ve been amazed at the answers I’ve received when saying the Hail, Holy Queen prayer. It’s become very dear to me.

I feel like I’ve missed out all my life for rejecting Marian devotion until recently.

For Protestants wanting a more positive evaluation of Marian theology, I recommend ‘Mary for Evangelicals,’ by Tim Perry. He does not go as far as Catholis would and in the end rejects the Blessed Virgin’s assumption and immaculate conception, but does not rule out praying to Mary.
 
I’ve been amazed at the answers I’ve received when saying the Hail, Holy Queen prayer. It’s become very dear to me.

I feel like I’ve missed out all my life for rejecting Marian devotion until recently.
And yet you probably recognize that if you had tried to force the issue before you were ready - the result could well have been even more of a barrier / rejection.

These things have to happen in God’s time - not ours.

Peace
James
 
Frankly I don’t have much problem with such public devotion.
If the priest begins talking about our Lady - or some other saint I view it simply as a lesson to be listened to and absorbed. Likewise I have no real problem with songs to our Lady…Some of the most beautiful hymns (IMHO) are to her.
So, again - the advice is to not stress over it.

Yes I have met such people too…right here at CAF in fact…;).
For the most part I have given up debating with such people.
They are entitled to their opinion and I am sure that their comments are meant to help me…
But -
If need be I will inform such people of the same facts that I shared here…
That not teaching of the Church requires us to pray to the saints. Yes the Church teaches that such prayer is permissible and efficacious but she does not require it.
I will also inform them that it is not that I don’t have a devotion to our Blessed Mother…I love her very much…rather i simply do not express that devotion in the same way that they do.

Consider this - -
The last words of Mary recorded in the Bible are, “Do whatever He tells you” (John 2:5). In regards to prayer, Jesus tells us to pray thus…"Our Father Who are in heaven…(Mt 6:9-13).
Am I somehow slighting Mary by doing what she and Jesus have instructed me to do?

Also consider - -
The argument is made that Mary leads us to Jesus, - that is her desire - to lead us to Jesus. So - If we go to Jesus in prayer, if we go to the Father in prayer, have we somehow slighted her? Isn’t this what she wants us to do?

Devotion to Mary is a wonderful thing. She is our heavenly Mother and we should be devoted to her…but there are many ways that we can be devoted and show that devotion. When others try to force you into their particular form…just thank them for their (name removed by moderator)ut and drop the matter.

One more comment on the idea of being comfortable with praying to Mary and the other saints…
As stated above, Mary desires to lead us to Jesus - - And if we think about it, we can reverse this a bit and ask Jesus to teach us about his Mother…I did a thread on this a while back…“Dear Jesus…Tell me about your mom…
You might find it interesting…

Peace
James
Dear James.
Thank you so much for this post of yours. It really helps me.
In fact it was no problem for me as a convert to find the thought acceptable, that the saints pray for us in heaven or that Mary was lovely and being aware of her presence was exciting.

But I have had a kind of allergic reaction like the one you describe in your post to the other poster. It was listening to the wording of certain prayers and songs that really shocked me and made me very uneasy. A wellmeaning Catholic yelling into my face - after I had described my uneasiness to her - “but she is your MAMA!” did not help better the situation.

Guilting someone into practicing these devotions does have the opposite effect. I am more uneasy about it than ever and simply shut down. - As you might have seen, if you read my thread about my crisis. Even the rosary makes me uneasy, which was not the case some years ago. The reason is, I guess it is all part of a system which I feel uncomfortable with.

What bothers me most is that I feel that it has come between me and my direct and free approach to Jesus, which I had before - that I have had people tell me that I must do this and that to be saint-material. I have also been told that maybe I have a problem not only with these words that are used, but also with some of the underlying doctrine. That makes me even more tired to think this.

Sometimes I understand the people who say they do not want any part in organized religion, they just want Jesus Christ. Because there are so many things that can distract us or pull us here and there, things demanding our attention, things that demand they are important when I just do not perceive them to be so.

But enought of this. I do not want to take this thread off track. Just thank you. God bless you for your words which gave me much peace.

Daisy
 
Dear James.
Thank you so much for this post of yours. It really helps me.
In fact it was no problem for me as a convert to find the thought acceptable, that the saints pray for us in heaven or that Mary was lovely and being aware of her presence was exciting.
👍
But I have had a kind of allergic reaction like the one you describe in your post to the other poster. It was listening to the wording of certain prayers and songs that really shocked me and made me very uneasy. A wellmeaning Catholic yelling into my face - after I had described my uneasiness to her - “but she is your MAMA!” did not help better the situation.
Guilting someone into practicing these devotions does have the opposite effect. I am more uneasy about it than ever and simply shut down. - As you might have seen, if you read my thread about my crisis. Even the rosary makes me uneasy, which was not the case some years ago. The reason is, I guess it is all part of a system which I feel uncomfortable with.
Exactly - and I have tried to explain this to some folks and they just don’t seem to get it…🤷
I honestly wonder what Mary would say to such people to see them berating others.
What bothers me most is that I feel that it has come between me and my direct and free approach to Jesus, which I had before - that I have had people tell me that I must do this and that to be saint-material. I have also been told that maybe I have a problem not only with these words that are used, but also with some of the underlying doctrine. That makes me even more tired to think this.
This is just ridiculous. Mary would never want this and those who promote a particular veneration in such a way are NOT acting in a manner that Our Lady would approve.
Sometimes I understand the people who say they do not want any part in organized religion, they just want Jesus Christ. Because there are so many things that can distract us or pull us here and there, things demanding our attention, things that demand they are important when I just do not perceive them to be so.
I think that what can get lost sometimes - especially for a new Catholic - is the idea that the Church contains a whole host of spiritualities, devotions, disciplines, etc. Some of these are very popular, others not so much.
The key is to take your time, pray, and see what sort of spirituality you are drawn to…It could be deep Marion devotion…it could be a Carmelite or Franciscan or Benedictine devotion and discipline…it might be more mystical or more Thomist…It might be charismatic or deeply contemplative…So many things to choose from…
but whatever you find yourself drawn to, it needs to lead you closer to God…which means it must be based and built on Agape.
But enough of this. I do not want to take this thread off track. Just thank you. God bless you for your words which gave me much peace.
I am glad my words have been of help. These threads do tend to wander a bit…but that is really the nature of the subject matter…so don’t feel bad.

Peace
James
 
Yes, I consider myself a good Catholic, but I do not pray to saints, apart from an occasional Hail Mary.

I do not think there is any commandment that says we must pray to saints, or that it would be a sin not to pray to saints. Correct me if I have that wrong.

I do like to read about the lives of saints. Much can be learned from their life stories.
I am like you! 👍

I occassionally pray the Hail Mary. Just one time and reflect on Mary and my relationship to her. It is actually humbling.

There can be some times when participation in petitions of the saints are somewhat required. For example, the Easter Vigil service calls on many saints for their prayers. Or many times a priest will give a Hail Mary prayer for penance. But this should not be an issue if your confessor knows were you stand about the issue.

As JRKH has nicely suggested, we should pray how we are comfortable praying, as long as nothing contradicts what the Church Teaches. We should practice what we are convicted in. But continue to learn what the reasons for the Faith of the Church are.

I usually struggle with what constitutes a “devotion to Mary”. Even if I was to have a prayer relationship with Mary, which in a real sense I think all genuine Christians do, I would not call it a ‘devotion to Mary’. My concept of a ‘Mary relationship’ is obeying her Son, tending to the needs of the faithfull, and asking for her prayers of recourse (with and for me) when we fail in our Christian walk. And of course, meditating on Christ coming to all of us through His mother, and offering her to us on the cross.
 
The thread below is asking the same thing…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=885165

I will share post 33 of the thread…which I think sums up why we choose to go throug the saints:

^One additional point–it is very much akin to the concept of ‘advocacy’–why Lawyers exist. Lawyers make their living from of knowing how to ask for things; how to phrase questions; how to present evidence; how to ‘build a case’ for the propriety of a legal remedy. Saints have established ‘cred’ within various particular areas–e.g.–St. Jude, wrt Cancer (hence St. Jude Children’s hospital).

Lawyers know the judge, and judge knows the lawyers. They have a rapport with one another; a comfort level; credibility; expertise; and resulting mutual respect and good will. But the Judge dispenses of the legal remedies–as God dispenses the graces.

Hence often times we invoke the saints, by humbly acknowledging that for all of our ‘piety’, and prayer-fulness or what have you…there are others who have come before us, and ‘made a name for themselves’, that commands respect—and therefore, by engaging their good will, we may be better served in articulating our case–measured against God’s Will (that is, that no matter what we pray for, it must be in accordance with, if not in furtherance of, God’s Holy Will).

All though one can certainly proceed pro se, and represent oneself–often, if not usually, engaging an attorney is beneficial to one’s cause. Likewise, we can certainly pray for ourselves, and our own causes–but engaging a Saint, or ‘the Saints’, sometimes helps our ‘cause’.

(…and the retainer fee for the saints is just right! or should I say, quite reasonable–as although there is no ‘charge’ for engaging the Saints, there usually is a ‘conscience tax’ where we feel inclined to honor the saint more fully, after ‘engaging them’, and to refer others to the Saint–thereby further buttressing their ‘cred’).

Continuing with the analogy, in the legal profession there is a saying:

The attorney who represents himself, has a fool for a client.

Now I wouldn’t go so far to say that "…the ‘saint’ who represents himself, has a fool for a cause’–but I would submit, that one is potentially failing to avail themselves of great potential and cred to buttress their petitions and causes, by neglecting the Saints in Heaven, as one approaches the Blessed Trinity, with their prayers.

…but ultimately, it is a matter of humility and respect.

Humility in that we acknowledge our own lowliness, and poverty—in terms of stature, in the Realm of Heaven; and

Respect, for the proven friends of Christ, who, during their respective lifetimes, and by their respective lives, established themselves as noteworthy and memorable, in their commitment to Christ (i.e.–their legacy).

And in this thread…one reponse echoes the last part I have put in blue above, and i share:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11012687#post11012687

In hierarchical terms, Mary (human) is higher than us, but infinitely lower than Christ (God and man).

*Since the ancients understood their lowlinness in relation to God much better than we do, they naturally were attracted to the 100% human mother, whereby Christ could be accessed through her compassion and lowliness. Men knew they were lowly and unworthy. Mary was a human being, sharing in our lowliness. Yet she was also the Mother of God, and she had her son’s ear! Thus, many were instinctively drawn to approach God through His mother.

Today, man is arrogant. We don’t understand our own unworthiness in relation to God. Thus, for many, praying through Mary to Christ is not intuitive. But to men of the 1st and 2nd centuries, and later, it was just common sense. This Tradition has been handed on for 2000 years…
*

And is practriced to this day by Catholics and Orthodox.
ABSOLUTE BEST ANALYSIS EVER!!! This really will help me. God, Jesus, Mary and Joseph, BLESS!
 
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