S
Serap
Guest
Thanks! I can’t take all the credit. I’ve been praying the Rosary for the last 5 weeks
- Status
F
Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
**Forgot to mention, I found out after my conversion (first to NFP and then into Catholicism) that my hubby prayed for me A LOT!Thanks! I can’t take all the credit. I’ve been praying the Rosary for the last 5 weeks
It’s another one of those “behind the scenes” things. It wouldn’t have gone over very well for him to tell me about it. It would’ve come across as “I think you are such a terrible person I am praying for you to change”
I hope that things can go according to God’s will for your family and that you have a good meeting with your priest.**
K
kage_ar
Guest
What you are speaking of is known as “indifferentism” - or moral relativity, it is only wrong if it FEELS wrong to you.
This is a Catholic board, we are faithful to the Church. Right is right and sin is sin and wrong is wrong and the teaching of the church has and always will be that contraception is wrong.
Pray and study the Church.
K
kage_ar
Guest
I second what has been said - instead of dissuading him, what about telling him “honey, I would like to make love to you. I am fertile now, so, understand that we may create a life.” That way, you are NOT rejecting him or pushing him away.
Maybe it is time for you to welcome life!
H
haulmark400
Guest
My wife and I tried Creighton NFP and hated it. We prayed together for several days that Jesus would advise us at confession. I went to confession and talked to a priest, trusting that Jesus was present. We have four children and my wife gets post partum eclampsia after each child. She was hospitalized for a week after the fourth one was born with signs of heart failure because of this disorder. We were told by doctors it would get worse with each pregnancy. We have watched it progress after each child was born. We decided it is best to have no more children. We went three months with little intimacy struggling with natural folly planning. She has PCOS and a thyroid disorder as well. We only had intercourse twice in three the three months because of the brief windows of opportunity. Our marriage was a wreck. At the confession the priest showed me much mercy and compassion for the situation in our marriage. He told me to beware of the “Catholic Rigorist”. That the church rules on sex are guideposts and not a universal blanket that fits all situations. I was advised to love my wife as God intended in a marriage and it was ok to use birth control. Why follow NFP rules of being open to life when we are not because of her health. Why ruin a marriage to follow rules that are harming the marriage. Use good judgement and common sense the priest said. So my wife and I kicked the rules to the curb and our much happier in our marriage. I thank Jesus for his understanding and compassion. Am I to doubt the message I was given was not from him when we prayed he would answer us at the confession? To do so would be to doubt my prayer. Pray to our Lord Jesus Christ for guidance and then seek his guidance from one of his servants.
Read what Saint Faustina has written in her diary.
Entry 1240
The Lord Jesus greatly protects His representatives on earth. How closely he is united with them; and he orders me to give priority to their opinion over His. I have come to know the great intimacy which exists between Jesus and the priest. Jesus defends whatever the priest says, and often complies with his wishes, and somtimes makes His own relationship with a soul depend on the priest’s advice. O Jesus, through a special grace, I have come to know very clearly to what extent You have shared Your power and mystery with them, more so than with Angels. I rejoice in this, for it is all for my good.
Jesus Christ be praised for his mercy and love. Seek a priest for Christ’s advice on your situation.
Read what Saint Faustina has written in her diary.
Entry 1240
The Lord Jesus greatly protects His representatives on earth. How closely he is united with them; and he orders me to give priority to their opinion over His. I have come to know the great intimacy which exists between Jesus and the priest. Jesus defends whatever the priest says, and often complies with his wishes, and somtimes makes His own relationship with a soul depend on the priest’s advice. O Jesus, through a special grace, I have come to know very clearly to what extent You have shared Your power and mystery with them, more so than with Angels. I rejoice in this, for it is all for my good.
Jesus Christ be praised for his mercy and love. Seek a priest for Christ’s advice on your situation.
M
MariaTheresa
Guest
Thank you haulmark for your insight-
That is the point I was trying to make. You must wonder when people are afraid of what a priest might tell you. Also , watch out when Catholics try to insinuate that you are not Catholic because your view is different then theirs. I knew my posts would be attacked by others here but that doesn’t mean I will abandon someone who I think needs to hear my opinion too.
Abortifacient vs not abortifacient- Not a “red herring”
Other people’s views are not “turds”
Thank goodness Jesus has more mercy and understanding than humans. I think that was his message to the Pharisees in His day as well.
Love the Lord, speak to Him and his servants and always do the best you can.
That is the point I was trying to make. You must wonder when people are afraid of what a priest might tell you. Also , watch out when Catholics try to insinuate that you are not Catholic because your view is different then theirs. I knew my posts would be attacked by others here but that doesn’t mean I will abandon someone who I think needs to hear my opinion too.
Abortifacient vs not abortifacient- Not a “red herring”
Other people’s views are not “turds”
Thank goodness Jesus has more mercy and understanding than humans. I think that was his message to the Pharisees in His day as well.
Love the Lord, speak to Him and his servants and always do the best you can.
H
HouseArrest
Guest
There are bad priests out there. Just like there are bad accountants, bad teachers, bad garbage collectors. I feel sorry for people in situations such as the OP for just this reason.On top of trying to do the right thing, and being in a vulnerable state, a person has to worry about being led astray. I suppose it is the same for anyone looking for any type of advice, except there is more at stake when we’re deciding how to live our spiritual life. In the scheme of things it is no big deal if someone gives us poor investment advice or talks us into a paint color we hate.
A
apricot_yogurt
Guest
Hooray! The Church was wrong after all-now I’m going to call Dh and ask him to bring home the biggest pack of condoms he can find! Woohoo!
H
haulmark400
Guest
Make all the nasty comments you want. Cling to the rule book like it is everything. Jesus Christ is bigger than a one size fits all rule book. In 1885 small pox broke out in Montreal Canada. The Catholic leadership declared vacination is immoral and a sin. The Protestants embraced vacination. 3000 people died in the small pox outbreak. 27 Protestants and 981 Catholics. If you were a rule oriented Catholic you died. I wont let that happen to my family. The church screws up from time to time. Follow the rules like a blind sheep in 1885 Montreal Canada. See where you end up.
chapters.indigo.ca/books/Plague-How-Smallpox-Devestated-Montreal-Michael-Bliss/9780006394648-item.html?pticket=jt44va455wyvkeqq21qr1g45RUjTdLfWyhXJIHI8j6qEJuV2Grs%3d
chapters.indigo.ca/books/Plague-How-Smallpox-Devestated-Montreal-Michael-Bliss/9780006394648-item.html?pticket=jt44va455wyvkeqq21qr1g45RUjTdLfWyhXJIHI8j6qEJuV2Grs%3d
A
apricot_yogurt
Guest
How do you know I wasn’t serious?
A
apricot_yogurt
Guest
What is the difference then with following blindly an erroneous priest? Following blind only works sometimes?
R
RCMom
Guest
Priests are NOT infallible. They are humans, subject to sin just like any other human. I fully understand the struggle of using NFP. My husband and I have been married 10 years and I have been pregnant 9 times! 4 have ended in miscarriage, and we recently gave birth to our 5th child, which now gives us 5 under the age of 5 1/2! My third child was born at 25 weeks, so I am now at risk for preterm labor/delivery again. I also have a clotting disorder and an autoimmune condition that requires multiple medications while pregnant, including blood thinner injections twice daily. So pregnancy is not easy physically. When I first found out I was pregnant this 5th time, I was devastated. We had been using NFP, but apparently missed something. I was certain I had already ovulated and was in the safe time, but admittedly I was still breastfeeding (with irregular night wakenings) and obviously missed something. We were intimate ONE time that month. I ovulated a few days after and 9 months later we delivered our 4th daughter. Anyways, I went to confession during my early pregnancy. I confessed my feelings of guilt over not being happy about another pregnancy. I told the priest how frustrated with God I was that I could not even look at my husband without getting pregnant. During my pregnancies, because of my high risk of preterm delivery, I am advised NOT to have intercourse. So that leads to more frustration. We fully believe we are being called to have a large family, and we trust completely in God. However, it is still not easy. I also felt that I needed to be a better witness to others regarding not contracepting and being open to God’s will, but how could I do this when I was feeling so unhappy and frustrated? After confessing/discussing all of this, my priest told me I could (and should) get my tubes tied after delivery of this child. I was ASTONISHED!!! I always thought that the words of a priest in the confessional were coming directly from Jesus. But HOW could that be? I know in my heart that is NOT what God wants me to do. But my priest said it was ok?!?! So back to my original statement, priests are not infallible. I am not sure how God would judge someone who followed the advice of a priest on something like this. Perhaps He would be more lenient in His judgement of us? If you truly did not know and believe the info was incorrect and you were following it because it came from a priest does that make it less wrong? I am not sure of the answers. But I DID know that my priest was wrong, and all I can and will do is continue to pray for him and for myself that we will be able to discern what God is truly calling us to do and we will continue be to able to be open to His will.
God Bless all of you who are struggling with this. It ISN’T always easy. But then again, doing the RIGHT thing often isn’t!
RCMom
God Bless all of you who are struggling with this. It ISN’T always easy. But then again, doing the RIGHT thing often isn’t!
RCMom
A
agapewolf
Guest
haulmark, you would do well not to underestimate the Catholics here. You are assuming that everyone here is just clinging to a “rule” for the sake of itself. Perhaps a small few are…but the rest are not.
You see, we’ve actually studied our faith. Very thoroughly. We’ve experienced or seen the terrible pain and spiritual and emotional death that contraception causes within and outside of marriage to families. We’ve studied theology of the body, and when you understand the marriage of Christ to His bride, the church, and understand that marriage on earth is simply an Icon of that to point to God, you would never ever ever dream of putting a condom on that love. Birth control is not just a physical barrier…what we do with our bodies is a manifestation of deeper realities. It isn’t just as simple as putting a condom on. It means more than that. We are not souls trapped in a body and are separate, we are body-spirits…so what we do with our bodies is connected to our souls.
The church does not make up rules arbitrarily. If she did, she couldn’t stick by them. People have died for the faith…the WHOLE faith, including this teaching.
You may think your marriage is better now, and perhaps on the surface it is…that is from Satan’s empty promises. Your marriage is spiritually challenged because you have chosen to accept the lies and go against God’s natural law.
Please study theology of the body.
(BTW, creighton method can help doctors help the physical ailments you spoke of. I too had some PCOS probs…Creighton charts helped my doc fix the prob)
E
Em_in_FL
Guest
haulmark400 - No nasty comments… it’s clear to see you are struggling.
So, what happens if the birth control fails? It’s not 100% effective.
If your wife’s health were REALLY your main concern, I think abstinence would be the best policy, right?
So, what happens if the birth control fails?
It’s not 100% effective.If your wife’s health were REALLY your main concern, I think abstinence would be the best policy, right?
F
Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
**Excellent point. The media and the medical community have done a good job convincing us that contraception is fail proof. Certainly so much more effective than NFPhaulmark400 - No nasty comments… it’s clear to see you are struggling.
So, what happens if the birth control fails?
If your wife’s health were REALLY your main concern, I think abstinence would be the best policy, right?
. And they have a ready answer for those times that do fail…they call it “termination”. We call it murdering a baby.My husband and i use NFP because of my health. Many women on this board have serious health issues (either with pregnancy or something else) and use NFP.
NOT because we are blindly following rules. I started using NFP BEFORE my conversion. My primary reasons to switch were the effectiveness and the ability to KNOW what was going on in my body, and the lack of side effects. Certainly had nothing to do with the rules of a Churc I didn’t even belong to.
**
S
Serap
Guest
I am happy that your marriage is now stronger. It is not our place to judge.
You believe that Jesus responded to your prayers…keep your faith. It’s beautiful.
S
Serap
Guest
C
ChristinaM
Guest
I wonder why every thread on NFP support turns into NFP bashing. I have seen this happen multiple times. If you feel NFP doesn’t “work” for you, that’s one thing, but why come on a thread trying to discourage and dissuade people from following the church’s teaching when people are looking for advice and support? Start your own thread called “NFP is the most horrible thing ever” or something like that.
Serap - I don’t “dissuade” my hubby. I just make it very clear to him that we are probably going to get pregnant if we make love during the fertile time.
Right now I would be very welcoming of a surprise baby, but he does not feel we are financially secure enough and I have to respect that. It is something that takes a lot of communication and openness - and prayer! - to work out. Good luck!
Start your own thread called “NFP is the most horrible thing ever” or something like that.Serap - I don’t “dissuade” my hubby. I just make it very clear to him that we are probably going to get pregnant if we make love during the fertile time.
Right now I would be very welcoming of a surprise baby, but he does not feel we are financially secure enough and I have to respect that. It is something that takes a lot of communication and openness - and prayer! - to work out. Good luck!
F
Friend_forever
Guest
The church is not wrong.
It’s only that it depends on the individual case. Semeone said there is no one size fits all.
Don’t take it very lightly. There would have to be BIG reasons and priests know much more that all of us about theology. All rules, although rules, need a “judge” to properly apply them. That is why we have courts. People breaking the same law in different circumstances get different punishments, some of them even come out innocent. This is just an example.
This is why we have priests to guide us.
I agree that priests are here to guide us as spiritual guides. I also agree that there might be some bad priests but they are a minority. Get a second opinion (meaning advice) and a third one then.
I totally trust my priest’s advice. I really believe it is Jesus who speaks to me through my priest.
It’s only that it depends on the individual case. Semeone said there is no one size fits all.
Don’t take it very lightly. There would have to be BIG reasons and priests know much more that all of us about theology. All rules, although rules, need a “judge” to properly apply them. That is why we have courts. People breaking the same law in different circumstances get different punishments, some of them even come out innocent. This is just an example.
This is why we have priests to guide us.
I agree that priests are here to guide us as spiritual guides. I also agree that there might be some bad priests but they are a minority. Get a second opinion (meaning advice) and a third one then.
I totally trust my priest’s advice. I really believe it is Jesus who speaks to me through my priest.
N
newbetx
Guest
Gotta agree. I was once on the side of “You no playa the game, you no maka the rules.” What an idiot I was. And it darn near cost me the love of my life!
TOB has the answers. But most people don’t think of “controlling themselves” as a positive thing. Such thoughts brings us “desparate housewives”, awful divorce rates, and kids that have no idea what true love and respect are.
- Status