Struggling With Rejection - Vocations and Mental Health

[AmauryDeLaRoche]

Hello everyone.

I’ve been struggling a lot lately with my vocation in regards to being rejected from a few places over the years. Ever since my early university days, beginning at age 19, I’ve felt an extremely strong pull towards entering the priesthood and/or a monastery. All I’ve wanted is to serve God closely and be “not of the world”. I am currently in a technology career (age 30’s) but the worldliness of it saddens me. Plus, all I can think about is a religious vocation. and no matter what I do, I cannot free it from my mind. The issue is that I was diagnosed with a severe mental illness (schizoaffective disorder) in 2010. Nonetheless, I’ve been stable for almost 10 years and am proactive. I’ve been living a normal life with a career, no relapses, no symptoms.

I’ve had a spiritual director for a long time now and he understands my position, feelings, diagnosis, et cetera. After discussing my vocation with him, I applied to several monasteries and priestly orders including the Oratorians in Toronto, the Conventual Franciscans, the Redemptorists, and Benedictines in central Canada who are associated with Solesmes.

I was outright rejected by the Conventual Franciscans who said they would pray for me but that rejection didn’t offend me too much because I have slowly drifted away from Novus Ordo and am highly attracted to the Latin Mass. The Oratorians, who utilize both the Novus Ordo and Latin Mass, was a harder to bear rejection. I told them about my condition after a few phone discussions. The vocation director reacted by saying “oh dear…”. and explained that it wouldn’t work. The Benedictines’ reaction was a lot more friendly; they explained to me that they admitted someone with a mental illness prior but it didn’t go well so they could not admit me.

I also began discussions with the ICKSP, Redemptorists, and the FSSP but I am quite disheartened. Why is God tugging on my heart like this but making me face scrutiny each time I approach it? What’s the point of feeling such a holy call that I cannot be accepted to do?

I could definitely hear some advice right now.

Thanks so much! God bless.

 

[White_Tree]

All I’ve wanted is to serve God closely and be “not of the world”. I am currently in a technology career (age 30’s) but the worldliness of it saddens me. Plus, all I can think about is a religious vocation. and no matter what I do, I cannot free it from my mind.

It’s very noble that you have a desire to serve God.

What is it about religious life that you feel drawn to? What do you think you will have in a religious order that you do not have right now?

You talk about the worldliness of your career, but that is what you make it.

I have known priests and monks in religious orders who were very worldly, as well as laypeople who lived ordinary lives focused entirely on the spirit. Joining a religious order is not going to save you from worldliness if the root of your worldliness is inside your own mind. It will follow you wherever you go. The same scenes will play out in a different setting.

You talk about your thoughts of a religious vocation, but what exactly are you looking for? Often we have the desire for some outcome as a mental abstraction, but we haven’t delved deeply into what the concrete reality of what that outcome would entail. Are you looking for a life of contemplative prayer? Do you want to preach? To spend your life studying the Scriptures?

It could be very possible to have those elements in your life without the need to join a religious order to do so. And it’s very likely that even if you joined a religious order, you might not get the elements you are envisioning.

One of my friends is a nun, and she mentioned to me once that she joined because she wanted to spend many hours each day in prayer, but she actually has to spend most of each day fulfilling administrative tasks, and making time for prayer is just as hard as it was when she was a layperson.

So what do you really want from your life, specifically?

 

[JHFamily]

Sometimes, God puts things in your heart that is a total mystery for many, many years. It has become obvious that you do not have a priestly/religious vocation since you have sincerely tried and been turned down. The question now is where to go from here.

I sense a genuine dissatisfaction with your career. Could, perhaps, you serve the Church or the world in some other capacity? For example, the Homeschool Legal Defense Fund was looking for a Computer Tech person (I don’t remember exactly the position) not long ago. Perhaps you can find something like that which is not so disturbing and not so worldly.

Also, perhaps you are called to be a part of a secular institute of some sort. Maybe take that idea to your spiritual director and see what he says.

Many, many years ago, God put the same desires in my heart and due to health conditions, I was unable to persevere in religious life. But now, some 25 years later, I can see very clearly how that desire has formed me into the person I am today.

 

[AmauryDeLaRoche]

So what do you really want from your life, specifically?

Those are excellent questions.

When I was discerning with the Redemptorists I really enjoyed the brotherhood they shared and praying the Divine Office with them. Yes, people can pray it alone or with religious friends (I’ve done so) but it was a completely different act doing it with the priests and religious brothers. Their whole entire lives revolves around prayer, contemplation, and the mass. I’ve tried making my life about that too but the world really does get in the way.

So, what I am looking for is to serve God by joining like-minded men who have the same fervor that I do. I don’t consider it escaping reality…I consider it coming “home”.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

Well, I’m schizoaffective and I stopped working at thirty when the symptoms became to pronounced. I’m glad you can still work. As for religious orders, I can sympathize with the call. I too can’t join a religious order, which there was a time when I desired to do just that. Because you can’t join a religious order doesn’t mean you can’t improve upon your Faith. Again, because of my illness and my inability to work I will never date or get married; I don’t have trouble with that, being celibate is very easy for me.

Here is a site I recommend to improve upon your prayer life:

Divine Office – Liturgy of the Hours of the Roman Catholic Church (Breviary)

Of course, right now is a good time to pray The Rosary:

Heart of the Nation :: The Rosary - Holy Rosary Online

There are other books I can recommend in addition to the Bible. Reply if you want more of my perspective.

 

[AmauryDeLaRoche]

Also, perhaps you are called to be a part of a secular institute of some sort. Maybe take that idea to your spiritual director and see what he says.

Many, many years ago, God put the same desires in my heart and due to health conditions, I was unable to persevere in religious life. But now, some 25 years later, I can see very clearly how that desire has formed me into the person I am today.

What type of secular institutes are there? I will look into it.

 

[GodIsPerfection]

Isaiah 53

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

In your rejections, you share something with Jesus Christ, himself. Even the pain of rejection is of value. Embrace the rejection, emotionally, and draw closer to Jesus.

Your rejection for medical reasons by other organizations may be more practical, than hostile. For example, a seminary or monastery might only have so many positions available. After lengthy training, they would want to ordain priests who could fulfill the needs of the Church. There could be concerns about future impairment or disability that could affect you. There could be concerns as mundane as life, disability, or health insurance programs offered by these organizations.

Maybe God is calling you in some alternative direction? God is not rejecting you, but perhaps pointing toward a different path than you have in mind for your service to Him.

For example, there have even been very devout hermits who have lived out religious lives, quite apart from the world.

WHAT IS GOD CALLING YOU TO DO?

P.S.: Psychiatric diagnoses do not appear in the Bible. Speaking as a physician, I know that sometimes the diagnoses can be inaccurate. Often the diagnostic labels are based on practical observations of which medications or forms of therapy seem to help the patient. KEEP TAKING YOUR MEDICATION AND WORKING WITH YOUR DOCTOR, CONFIDENTIALLY. The diagnostic labels help medical professionals to categorize your care. My point is: You are a human and a beloved child of God. Don’t hang medical labels on yourself and share those labels with other humans where it might provoke prejudice against you. If you are asymptomatic for ten years, and living a normal life, does the label have any relevant meaning to other people?

 

[nunsuch]

Perhaps you could become an Oblate, or a member of the Secular Franciscans or Dominicans or Carmelites. You would be truly a meber of the order, but would live “in the world.” And you would have a community with whom you would be affiliated. In some cases, communities offer opportunities for Oblates (Benedictine) or Secular members to live within the community, either full or part-time. I do think these are options you might want to explore.

 

[GodIsPerfection]

If a person has a psychiatric condition that is 100% controlled, does he / she have that condition?

I’m not a lawyer. I don’t know if the institutions you applied to are considered “employment” or not.

In 1993, the Americans With Disabilities Act was passed which prohibits employment discrimination against people with certain physical or mental disabilities, and requires employers to offer “reasonable accommodation” for those disabilities.

For example, people might be hired with a proviso of one afternoon per week off work to attend medical appointments.

 

[AmauryDeLaRoche]

Perhaps you could become an Oblate, or a member of the Secular Franciscans or Dominicans or Carmelites. You would be truly a meber of the order, but would live “in the world.” And you would have a community with whom you would be affiliated. In some cases, communities offer opportunities for Oblates (Benedictine) or Secular members to live within the community, either full or part-time. I do think these are options you might want to explore.

I will definitely look into those. I especially like the Carmelites and Dominicans third order options.

 

[JHFamily]

What type of secular institutes are there? I will look into it.

I used the term “secular institutes”, but I also intended to lump third orders and oblates in there. I couldn’t really tell you much about them. However, third orders and oblates are easier to direct you to. If there is a particular community or monastery that attracted you, then I would ask them first and go from there. These people work to first sanctify themselves and then the world in which they live. All will have obligations, I think, and have the Divine Office as part of that obligation or strong recommendation. Some have regular meetings or yearly retreat days; others, you are living the life on your own. It really is living the life of a religious while living in the world if you are committed to it.

There are other older threads about these if you really are interested in that.

 

[Lara]

My suggestion is to only discuss health if they ask you in a personal meeting. It’s too easy to reject somebody by phone.

I think you should start taking the courses you need at a seminary that allows all sorts of students, not just those headed for the priesthood. Make sure you have many courses under your belt, which you need anyways, and get to know all the people that can give you a positive recommendation. You will need to get in through a window, because some doors have been closed for you. Be grateful they were closed because that’s one step closer to the yes that you need to hear.

(Salesman often think like that. Be glad for the 99 people who said no because soon the one that will say yes will show up.)

You will need to do a lot more networking than the average applicant.

 

[MNathaniel]

I’m not a lawyer. I don’t know if the institutions you applied to are considered “employment” or not.

In 1993, the Americans With Disabilities Act was passed which prohibits employment discrimination against people with certain physical or mental disabilities, and requires employers to offer “reasonable accommodation” for those disabilities.

Whoa. I really hope you’re not suggesting any worldly government should be able to force a religious community to accept a new member. Because that’s more like forcing a man to marry a woman he rejects, than like forcing an employer to hire an employee. Every religious community is like a family; a set of relationships. It’s not just a ‘job’ that someone can ‘qualify’ for.

The fact that shared economic labour and material resources are part of these vowed religious communities, does not mean these communities are reducible to “employment”. I’d be deeply disturbed to learn of any country trying to impose membership standards on communities of religious people.

 

[MNathaniel]

My suggestion is to only discuss health if they ask you in a personal meeting. It’s too easy to reject somebody by phone.

I mean, in my experience (and that of a friend of mine), the vocation directors of religious communities screen you for health before wasting your time (and their time) proceeding further in the discernment process. I reckon it’d send off a thousand alarm bells in their heads if we responded to their phone or email inquiries with: “I prefer not to discuss my health with you in advance. Let’s wait to talk in person.”

Your advice might be reasonable for secular employment (and maybe for some religious communities? I won’t pretend to have my finger on the pulse of all of them; there’s a lot of diversity in the vowed religious life). But my instinct is to say: “No, no, no,” to any suggestion of trying to hide our health condition until they’ve met us in person and know how awesome our other attributes are.

I mean, don’t necessarily volunteer the information at the beginning of the phone call (“Hi, I’m John, and I have Type 2 Diabetes!”)… but if they explicitly ask (and in my experience they do explicitly ask, especially about mental health), in my opinion it’d be inappropriate to disrespect their authoritative choice to make this phone call the place for that conversation. If God is calling us to vowed religious life, that involves obedience to the authorities He places over us in the community; it’d be a pretty poor start to be disobedient to the screening process a given community has authoritatively chosen for itself. If their screening process screens us out, we were meant to be screened out. That’s a step forward to whatever God really wants for us: it’s helpful. Even “No” is an answer from God.

 

[GodIsPerfection]

Whoa. I really hope you’re not suggesting any worldly government should be able to force a religious community to accept a new member. Because that’s more like forcing a man to marry a woman he rejects, than like forcing an employer to hire an employee. Every religious community is like a family; a set of relationships. It’s not just a ‘job’ that someone can ‘qualify’ for.

The fact that shared economic labour and material resources are part of these vowed religious communities, does not mean these communities are reducible to “employment”. I’d be deeply disturbed to learn of any country trying to impose membership standards on communities of religious people.

As stated, I’m not a lawyer.

The U.S. Constitution provides for the separation of church and state to some extent. Religious communities like David Koresh’ Branch Davidian’s crossed that line and suffered the consequences.

All families exist within a certain milieu of the state, which affords them some societal benefits, including police protection, public health benefits, clean water, and trash collection, as examples. Even our personal families are not free to operate any way they like. People and pets cannot be abused or neglected, children must attend school , etc.

It may be that religious communities are exempt from Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA).

But, if I were a healthy, asymptomatic, individual, who has been productive for ten years, and who is being rejected repeatedly, only over a medical label (the label is irrelevant if he is functioning at 100%), I would ask the opinion of an attorney, whether ADA applies to his circumstances or not.

There is EXTREME PREJUDICE in the world against people with mental diagnoses, even if the condition is 100% controlled. I have witnessed these prejudices even among Clergy opining about the suitability of people for marriage. When interviewers select from a pool of applicants, they cannot see the future, either. The person who is truly healthy today may be incapacitated in two or three years. The individual with a well controlled mental condition may never be incapacitated again.

If religious communities are exempt from ADA, they are legally free to discriminate against people with disabilities, as they please. This may be the case…BUT I AM NOT A LAWYER.

 

[MNathaniel]

The U.S. Constitution provides for the separation of church and state to some extent. Religious communities like David Koresh’ Branch Davidian’s crossed that line and suffered the consequences.

You’re using an unjustifiable government slaughter of unpopular religious people to defend your position that the government should have more influence with religious people? Strange.

All families exist within a certain milieu of the state, which affords them some societal benefits, including police protection, public health benefits, clean water, and trash collection, as examples. Even our personal families are not free to operate any way they like.

Indeed, but our personal families are free to be formed by the discriminating choices of its members. i.e. A man gets to propose marriage to the woman he chooses, and not the woman he doesn’t choose. It’s up to him if he decides he’s not open (for whatever reason) to marrying someone with a diagnosed mental health condition. It’s not up to the government to tell him that’s a ‘bad’ reason and drag him to the altar against his will.

There is EXTREME PREJUDICE in the world against people with mental diagnoses, even if the condition is 100% controlled.

I agree. And at the same time, I am proposing that secular government forcing consecrated community membership is inappropriate. If you believe more communities should be open to accepting members diagnosed with schizophrenia, approach that through inner Church mechanisms. Talk to the communities who have made the decision to only accept the young and healthy. Ask them their reasons for this criteria. You may find yourself persuaded by their reasons, when you hear the pragmatic situation on the ground. Or maybe you’ll persuade them that they do indeed have the resources to accommodate individuals with certain conditions, and that the risks they’re concerned about are not supported by available evidence.

But jumping to the assumption that communities shouldn’t have the right to discern their own membership criteria, and that secular legal and government mechanisms should be explored for forcing a community to enter into a specific kind of relationship with a person they believe to not be the right fit for them, seems straight out wrong to me.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t find ways, as a Church, to help one another pursue fulfilling vocational paths regardless of mental health status, physical health status, sexual attractions, etc. I have a close relative with schizophrenia and I’m sympathetic to the OP’s situation. I believe we should absolutely be exploring new forms of community and vocational expression that accommodate those who for whatever reasons are not currently welcomed into existing established communities. But I don’t believe the answer will involve ignoring the concerns of existing communities and forcing them to do something they consider unwise, through secular government interference to boot.

 

[puer.dei]

As stated, I’m not a lawyer.

Obviously. And I have to wonder how much you know about religious life. Please note that is not an insult, many Catholics don’t.

Entering a religious order is not a job, it is a religious vocation. A government, any government, is completely unqualified to determine if a person has that vocation.

 

[MNathaniel]

If religious communities are exempt from ADA, they are legally free to discriminate against people with disabilities, as they please. This may be the case…BUT I AM NOT A LAWYER.

PS I’m from a different country so I haven’t been addressing your speculation about USA-specific employment law and exemptions thereto; it’s not my area of expertise either. If someone else knows, may they feel free to chime in.

But for the record, I expect that whatever American law is, it does in fact permit consecrated religious communities to ‘discriminate’ by screening for mental health. The reason I expect this is that, to my knowledge, such mental health screening is widely and publicly practiced by consecrated communities, and I’ve never heard it challenged on any legal ground. They’re very upfront about it, it’s not a hidden practice. It’s often on their public websites among criteria for those considering discerning with them. And the Church does have legal experts.

I’d be genuinely blown away if it turned out that this practice is illegal and people who hate the Church haven’t already found out about it and trumpeted the violation far and wide.

 

[JHFamily]

It may be that religious communities are exempt from Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA).

The American with Disabilities Act does not apply in this case.

Religious life is very demanding, especially psychologically. I know of some communities that have tried accepting applicants with mental health issues in the past, and the religious life triggered a relapse.

 

[Lara]

I’m not a fan of technology in many cases where in-person contact would be better. If I were the OP, I’d go to a monastery or such place in person and build a relationship before bringing up my interest in joining.

It’s not a waste of time for a community to speak to a prospective candidate in person about his situation vs. cutting him off on the phone with respect to his health.

Everybody thought it was so wonderful that Pope John II showed himself vulnerable to human illness and frailty, and everybody commended his devotion in the face of illness. Well, why CAN’T we have ill people leading our parishioners from the get-go? I’m not saying sick people have a right to be selected for the priesthood; many factors go into discernment to a vocation. I’m saying, for me, the OP’s illness is not a stopping point. His health would need investigation.

The severity of symptoms matters. How much time a person can devote to the community counts. Whether someone behaves in very strange ways would also count. If he can get medical insurance that’s adequate counts too. We are desperate for good priests and should stop seeing health as good or bad. There’s something in between. There’s carrying one’s cross.