Struggling with the Idea of the Pope

[GoldenGal]

Hey guys.

I have a two part question.

1. Where do we see the lineage of the pope passed on? I am not sure I understand that there any was ever supposed to be a designated leader of the church after Jesus told Peter he was the rock. Shouldn’t our authority be the Bible? Why does one person get all of the authority?
2. I am having trouble understanding where to fall on all of the Pope Francis controversies. It has been stressing me out because we are ‘supposed to’ see him as the leader of the church, but so many people dislike him.

All of this has caused me a lot of stress. I was raised Catholic, however my family never has any answers and I can’t talk to them about what questions I have. I am deciding if I want to be confirmed or not, and this is weighing heavily on me. I am not sure where I stand in the Catholic faith right now. I am thinking of becoming Non-denominational, but I would miss that tradition and beauty of Catholicism. Does denomination really matter as long as I accept Jesus as my savior, and continue going to church?

 

[Guest1]

Does denomination really matter as long as I accept Jesus as my savior, and continue going to church?

If Jesus asked you to make Him a steak to eat would you give Him instead a plate of spaghetti?

Hopefully not.
So, when Jesus says something like “unless you eat the flesh of the son of man you have no life in you…” In John 6… Which Church has the correct teaching on that meaning?

See? It’s a serious question and the answer matters.

 

[1ke]

Where do we see the lineage of the pope passed on? I am not sure I understand that there any was ever supposed to be a designated leader of the church after Jesus told Peter he was the rock.

The Church. We see the first century Church and how it functioned.

Shouldn’t our authority be the Bible?

No. The Bible is a book. It doesn’t self interpret. Jesus built a church. Not a Bible.

There was no definite Bible for the first three or four centuries. There were no written New Testament scriptures for at least two or three decades after the church began, and it took several centuries for the Church to discern which of the numerous writings were accepted into the canon of scripture.

Scripture comes from the Church, not directly from Jesus.

Why does one person get all of the authority?

One person does not get “all of the authority”. All bishops, successors of the apostles, have authority. The Pope has some distinct authority among his fellow bishops in certain cases.

I am having trouble understanding where to fall on all of the Pope Francis controversies.

Most of the “controversies” aren’t controversies at all.

It has been stressing me out because we are ‘supposed to’ see him as the leader of the church, but so many people dislike him.

Many leaders are unpopular in their day.

Look at how the prophets were treated in the Bible. Bishops should expect no less.

Does denomination really matter as long as I accept Jesus as my savior, and continue going to church?

Yes it does matter. You will not find the Church Christ founded nor valid sacraments, nor the fullness of Truth in a so called “non denominational” church.

 

[Guest1]

Where do we see the lineage of the pope passed on? I am not sure I understand that there any was ever supposed to be a designated leader of the church after Jesus told Peter he was the rock. Shouldn’t our authority be the Bible? Why does one person get all of the authority?

Successors of the Apostles | Catholic Answers Magazine

What the Early Church Believed: Peter's Successors | Catholic Answers Tract

 

[halogirl]

Once traced back my bishop‘s ordination to the 1566 very interesting Living Bishops by Name (C), Page 3 [Catholic-Hierarchy]

 

[Marek]

Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that it is the only authority on Faith. This is Protestant preaching (sola scriptura), but the idea is not from the Bible. Luther himself wrote thousands of letters in his lifetime and expected Protestants to heed them.
If you were to ask a Protestant where is sola scriptura laid out in the Bible, they will give you some quotes, but none of them state that it’s the only authority and even taken together they don’t add up to it.
Church fathers’ writings are actually earlier than final editions of books of the New Testament.

Pope is the bishop of Rome. First among the equals. As for choosing the bishop of Rome, the procedure has changed in the past and you can expect it will change in the future. But bishops were being consecrated already in Apostolic times, therefore a valid method must have been reached by then.

Sure, pope is the first and foremost authority in the Church, but even he may be mistaken (sure enough, recall the conflicts between Ss. Paul and Peter) and corrected.

Just so this is not misinterpreted, I am NOT accusing Francis here. Please don’t go down that path. No pope in the past has been free of criticism and many, if not all, were admonished by their contemporaries. Many of the popes who were later remembered as important and influential were controversial in their day.

 

[commenter]

Shouldn’t our authority be the Bible?

There was a long period of time between t he death of Peter and the canonization of the Bible. Some visible human authority, after Peter, publicly identified God’s will that:

1. The OT is still considered inspired by Christians
2. An inspired NT should exist
3. These 27 books, and not a hundred other plausible books, will make up the NT.

If there was no publicly visible magisterium, then no NT at all.

The bible, the Magisterium, and that tiny portion of tradition called Sacred Tradition, in balance are the Christian authority.

Not a contradiction but one teacher using one text, or one Rider on one horse.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Shouldn’t our authority be the Bible?

No, because nobody commanded the Bible to be written. The Catholic Church put it together in the 4th century more or less for convenience. It is a most excellent book to be sure, but oral tradition was first.

 

[fhansen]

We have to have the papacy/magisterium or some such human entity where the buck stops on doctrinal matters. Every person who reads the bible and claims to understand it is effectively acting as a pope, infallibly proclaiming their view right and others wrong regardless of whether or not they know and admit that this is what they are doing, and in spite of how much they may differ from other readers on their subsequent beliefs, disagreement on biblical interpretation of relevant matters being all too common .

 

[po18guy]

1. Jesus nowhere taught that the Catholic bible should be used as a sole rule of anything. That is not how He structured His Church, nor is it how He intended the faith to be handed on.
2. The bible is incomplete and tells us this.
3. Peter held an office and that office was created by Christ. Just as the office of Judas Iscariot was filled, so also has the office of Peter been filled in succession.
4. Practically speaking, have you ever worked for a company that did not have someone in charge? A supervisor, administrator, president, CEO? That’s the Pope. “Feed my sheep. Tend My lambs. Feed my sheep” “Strengthen your brothers.”
5. Many if not most organizations have a mission statement. Mission. Hmmm… wonder where that came from? Anyway, do you suppose that everyone just reads that statement and then goes and does what appeals to them? Nope!
6. Rather, they are members of a team and someone must direct that team.
7. The Church, as well as the office of Pope, are divinely instituted. If the bible is read together with Church history, this will become clear.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

“Feed my sheep. Tend My lambs. Feed my sheep” “Strengthen your brothers.”

Just to further add to your excellent point, one of those verbs can also be translated as “govern”… I forgot which one, but I am sure @steve-b knows. He has some excellent points on Papacy too.

To OP, I was once struggling with this too. I started reading history, and Saints like Pope St. Gregory the Great and George the Hagiorite (Eastern Orthodox Saint actually) convinced me about Papacy. So did Early Church writings.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

1. Where do we see the lineage of the pope passed on? I am not sure I understand that there any was ever supposed to be a designated leader of the church after Jesus told Peter he was the rock. Shouldn’t our authority be the Bible? Why does one person get all of the authority?
2. I am having trouble understanding where to fall on all of the Pope Francis controversies. It has been stressing me out because we are ‘supposed to’ see him as the leader of the church, but so many people dislike him.

How can you trust a religion if you cannot trust their Pope?
How can the Pope’s word superceed Jesus’ word?
Hi @GoldenGal. These are valid questions that many of us struggle with.

The Catholic church isn’t perfect. Pope Francis, the pedophile scandal, Vatican 2, all have left a bad stain on the church so your concerns are warranted.

You are thinking of finding another church which is logical in my opinion, I did. But let’s take a closer look at that option.
A church denomination is a bit like a partner or a job, there will always be something that you will have to accept, none of them are perfect or faultless. Non-denomination is just another denomination with their own churches and their own nuanced teachings which you would have to learn all over again.

U said u accept Jesus as your saviour and wish to continue going to church. That is beautiful, I love the simplicity of it, it’s really all you need to be a Christian. So which church should you practice your faith?

Your family baptized you in the Catholic church and you did your first Holy Communion with the Catholic Church. Now as a young woman with her life ahead of her you are poised to commit to God with the sacrament of confirmation.

These are the questions you will be asked at your confirmation:
Do you reject Satan and all his works and all his empty promises?
Do you believe in God the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who came upon the apostles at Pentecost and today is given to you sacramentally in confirmation?
Do you believe in the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

This is all you have to confirm to be a Catholic. Ignore the heretical things the pope says or does, ignore all the teachings that make no sense and/or are irrelevant to you, ignore all the poor excuses Catholics use to defend the church. Your faith in Jesus Christ as our saviour is all that matters.

The church has countless teachings, dogmas, doctrines, creeds, canons. Few people can claim to know and believe them all.
I hope this has been helpful and I hope you decide to continue to be a Catholic.
May you be filled with God’s grace, peace and mercy.

 

[EndTimes]

Where do we see the lineage of the pope passed on? I am not sure I understand that there any was ever supposed to be a designated leader of the church after Jesus told Peter he was the rock. Shouldn’t our authority be the Bible? Why does one person get all of the authority?

These questions re: Pope and Sola Scriptura get constantly asked. .

God… is the Authority… and Yes… Jesus gave some Authority to Peter.

The Bible is Sacred - and yet is not the Full Measure of God.

The NT as we know it - did not exist until about 400 AD.

It’s the agreed upon Canon of:

• Written Accounts of
• Oral Testimonies of EyeWitnesses and their disciples of…
• The Actual Events as they occurred!

All of the above contributed to Salvation
via Faith and Deeds which would follow genuine Faith

 

[TheLittleLady]

I am having trouble understanding where to fall on all of the Pope Francis controversies. It has been stressing me out because we are ‘supposed to’ see him as the leader of the church, but so many people dislike him.

Remember, Jesus said to the Apostles (the first Bishops) that they ought rejoice when people revile them and say all manner of evil against them because that is how the world treated God’s Prophets and even Christ Himself.

Being the Pope is not a popularity contest.

 

[Rau]

This is all you have to confirm to be a Catholic. Ignore the heretical things the pope says or does, ignore all the teachings that make no sense and/or are irrelevant to you, ignore all the poor excuses Catholics use to defend the church. Your faith in Jesus Christ as our saviour is all that matters.

It is certainly odd to find the above statement forming part of a post encouraging one to commit to the Catholic Church.

 

[EndTimes]

Being the Pope is not a popularity contest.

Nonetheless - he’s only infallible in a very few situations…

He has received Concern from some Theology-Solid Cardinals and Bishops on a series of issues.

Some of his advisors and those who follow their lead … oppose all Questionings…

Which when Pushed in the problematic milieu of Silence and Coverup - can never sit well

_

 

[Thom18]

Well, we can’t rely on Scripture alone because Jesus instituted a Church, which wrote 27 books of Scripture and canonized all 73 books of the Bible. The Church pre-exists the New Testament writings, just as any action precedes its recording.

The Pope is the head of the Church on earth, Saint Peter’s successor. Though we’ve sometimes gone years without a new Pope (particularly in the early Church), there has always been a successor to his office, and there will be until Jesus comes again

As for Pope Francis in particular, don’t fret. God made a promise to His Church to protect it from error, even that it would overcome the gates of Hell, so what could a mere man do to sabotage what God has promised? He has already accounted for anything a person may do.

 

[steve-b]

po18guy:

“Feed my sheep. Tend My lambs. Feed my sheep” “Strengthen your brothers.”

Just to further add to your excellent point, one of those verbs can also be translated as “govern”… I forgot which one, but I am sure @steve-b knows. He has some excellent points on Papacy too.

To OP, I was once struggling with this too. I started reading history, and Saints like Pope St. Gregory the Great and George the Hagiorite (Eastern Orthodox Saint actually) convinced me about Papacy. So did Early Church writings.

Jesus again (asking Peter do YOU love me), in front of all the apostles, obviously singles Peter out again and says to him directly, feed and rule [poimaino] my sheep.[Jn 21:16…]

What does poimaino ἡγούμενος in Greek mean? Just open the link

shepherd, tend, rule, govern.

AND

poimaino ἡγούμενος is The same Greek word used in both Lk 22, and Jn 21, and that pertains to Peter.

So

Peter then, in his capacity as leader of all , says the following to those made leaders

HERE

 

[tafan2]

Does denomination really matter as long as I accept Jesus as my savior, and continue going to church?

You need the sacraments!!! Simply “going to church” doesn’t suffice. And you need to be in communion with the Church that Jesus founded. The Catholic Church is not a denomination, it is the Church.

 

[EndTimes]

In order to pass muster at Judgement … // Inherit Eternal Life.

We must Love our Neighbor in Action.

AKA – Obey God’s Command…