Student Loan Debt

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pittsburghjeff

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I wanted to throw this topic out there to see if others have similar perceptions as me.

I think that student loans are a real culprit in forcing both a husband and wife to work. In the older days when women didn’t go to college, it was easier for the husband to be the sole bread-winner and for the wife to become a mother and stay home with the children.

Today, it seems like almost every woman is going to college, and it is not uncommon for them to enter a marriage over 50,000 in debt. Student loans of a wife are a hard debt for the husband to pay by himself especially if he has his own loans, a car payment and a house payment.

What I am saying is that when women get student loans, they are pretty much choosing to be working women and not stay at home moms. They should realize that the decision to go into debt can affect things like when a couple can begin a family, etc.
Too many young people sign of for loans cavillierly without thinking about the consequences.
 
If someone gets a degree that costs them $50,000, they’ve already made the choice to work. No one spends that kind of money with the idea that “Hey, I’ll just do this until I find a husband and settle down”.
 
Women usually have to work because the cost of living is too high. The more education you get, the more income you have. It’s a double-edged knife. I’m going to college, basically because I have nothing else too do. Society expects women to get married and have children after all this is done, usually 25, 26. The cost of living is too high for women to become mothers so young and be married (though many try it and some are successful) its really hard to live with just one income, evn if you cut all the unnessecary things.
 
Hi Pittsburgh Jeff,

I am reading between the lines of your post. Are you disavowing debt that women take on in the form of student loans?

I think there are complex economics at work, more than student loans, that all fairly much started with the Reagan era. In 1974, the average income a male brought home was aroudn 36K. Today, the average income a male brings home is 36K. Essentially, we have flattened as an economy, at least when it comes to “selling our labor.” During the Reagan era, women entered the workforce at an astonishing rate (Yuppies, etc) and this had the effect of driving salaries down by employers having a larger pool of applicants to choose from.

It also lengthened the work week. Of course, Reaganites all cheered because the stock market was doing well, and the rich were indeed getting richer but the Reaganites did not step back to see what was happening to society at large, which is one of the points you seem to be commenting on, in a roundabout way.

As we know, everything else has gone up. Mortages have risen 59%. Thus, women’s incomes have made up for the difference in the average American family.

There are good reasons why “every woman is going to college.” They pretty much beat men at everything academically, not on a subject by subject basis necessarily, but overall, women outperform men academically. They listen better and are more attentive in class (ask any teacher). They follow instructions better and behave better.

Still, your post (again, between the lines) applies an analysis to another trend - women are wanting to have babies younger instead of older now. I think that is a good thing and wise desire. Anyway, I wonder why women can’t go to college when they are 35 or 40, when the kids are teenagers? What does the Bible say? A season for all things?

We are kind of brought up there is a certain order to everything (high school, college, job, marriage, family) and I see no reason why women can’t be encouraged to start families young and be educated older and men take the opposite path. Why must the genders have the same path with everything? I don’t think that is the spirit of equality - uniformity…

My wife had her last baby at age 33 and although we are financially set, she does feel old, that the baby will be in kindergarden by the time she is 39/40 y.o.
 
I am a financial planner. You can PM me and I will give you some suggestions.
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pittsburghjeff:
I wanted to throw this topic out there to see if others have similar perceptions as me.

I think that student loans are a real culprit in forcing both a husband and wife to work. In the older days when women didn’t go to college, it was easier for the husband to be the sole bread-winner and for the wife to become a mother and stay home with the children.

Today, it seems like almost every woman is going to college, and it is not uncommon for them to enter a marriage over 50,000 in debt. Student loans of a wife are a hard debt for the husband to pay by himself especially if he has his own loans, a car payment and a house payment.

What I am saying is that when women get student loans, they are pretty much choosing to be working women and not stay at home moms. They should realize that the decision to go into debt can affect things like when a couple can begin a family, etc.
Too many young people sign of for loans cavillierly without thinking about the consequences.
Click to expand...
 
Women go to college because they are human beings, not just machines that pop out babies. When I finish medical school next year, I’ll be over $150,000 in debt and, based on the lives I’ve saved and people I’ve touched, I’m proud of every penny.

LC
 
LabChick,

I don’t think Pittsburgh Jeff meant to imply that women are “baby machines.” I think you inferred that.

In fact, here is a story about 2 medical school students. They both get married in the middle of medical school but the woman “wants it all”. So, in the middle of her residency, she gets pregnant (and then pregnant again).

Her career basically becomes toast because the senior residents just get the feeling she is not dedicated to her job and has split loyalities between medicine and her family.

Now, the man MD, an anesthesiologist, has to support 2 $150,000 school loan debts, difficult even on a specialist’s salary, and with managed care and all.

But, I suppose the medical education was nice. . .

Point is, I think he has a point of an issue that is by and large avoided due to political correctness.
 
I didn’t mean to sound sexist if I did. I don’t have a problem with women getting an education and working and even outearning their husbands.

It is just that the cost of a college education is extremely high and most four year degrees aren’t worth very much. I do think that some women go to college to find a husband or because it is the thing that everyone says to do. All I am saying is that if they make that choice and borrow their way through school they should expect to work and not be stay-at-home moms.

For instance, we are newly married and I think my wife would want more than anything than to start a family and not have to work but because she is 50+ in student loan debt and counting, she can’t.
I know she didn’t think through all of her borrowing when she did it and how that would affect her in the future. She probably feels like she is sentenced to work for the next 10 years at least to pay it all off which means daycare for our kids (when we have them), etc.

My brother makes slightly less than me but he makes ends meet as the sole breadwinner with two kids because his wife never went to college.
 
Where I come from it takes two incomes to support a family. I was blessed to have a Father that paid for my education, so student loans wasn’t an issue for me, but with that said, I still have to work to help support my household. Yes, there are a few that don’t have to work if they are married to doctors, lawyers, CEO’s, etc.😉
 
I didn’t know that tuition in the US was so high!! I’m in college right now. I worked to save for my first year, and managed to get through with no debt. For the next 3 years, i’ll be working during school p/t to pay for rent and using a line of crdit to pay tuition. All in all, i’ll only have $10,000 debt at the very most, and that’s if i don’t throw some savings in during the three years. My situation won’t be that bad, but the cost of living in canada is crazy so I will have to work anyway when I’m married. Especially if i have children.
 
Our situation is different.

I went to college and got a degree. I mostly did this because I didn’t know what the future held. It might have held work and not getting married.
As it were, I did get married to my high school sweetheart after college graduation. I did not have any college debt, thanks to my parents. My husband did.
At this point, I am a stay-at-home mother and we are raising the family on one income. Is it hard? Yes! Do we have to make cuts a little deeper? Yes! for instance, I took advantage of some raspberry bushes yesterday and made 6 jars of jelly. We won’t have to buy jelly for a while. 🙂 That is a small thing. We buy older cars instead of new. I shop for the kids at the local A.R.C. on half price days, we never use a credit card, etc. But, it is worth it.
At least in our situation, my debt, which was zero, did not contribute to me having to go to work. We did have loans, but we worked hard to pay them off. So, I don’t know if I would agree with you.
My husband would say that it would be due to the fact that there are lower wages these days, and it is hard to find a “working wage” that can support a family. That probably falls under the standard of living reason.
Here is an interesting one…I think Liberatarians (?) think that when women entered the work force in mass, after a war, it dropped the wages to wear it is hard to make it on one income. The companies had twice as many workers to choose from and could pay less due to the extra increase in workers. So, they may argue that it was the fact that women entererd the work force at all that created the hard-to-make-it-on-one-income mess that we have.
Now, I didn’t say that was MY view! 😉 Just throwing out some theories that are out there…ducking now!
 
Ralphelia/Lab Chick,

So, now that we aren’t going to fight about sexism, taking my points into consideration and Jeff’s personal story, if women want to have children, and want to reasonably young(early 20’s), why should not the accepted socially acceptable path for a woman be to go to college later in life?

Why as a society do we say to women, “Go to college, and right afterwards, start having a family” when in fact, the debt and the diploma often go hand in hand?

I am not against daycare by any means (I utilize it) but I think we as a society are just expecting women to “have it all” and “do it all” at age 25.
 
Oh, and my parents are not upset by me getting an education and then becoming a stay-at-home-mom, they think this is much more important.

And, it is not like I am not using my degree, it is in math with a teaching credential, I use it to teach my kids!
 
I don’t plan on being a stay-at home mom. Though i’d love to, i just don’t see it to be all that tangible. My fiancee is trying to become a plumber, but it’s not too successful. He just started a job that seems to be the job he will be spending a number of years in, though it is plumbing, it’s only 13/hr, not enough to be raising a family with. It suits well for 2 but for 3 or 4, i can’t see it. I understand Jeff’s point of view but in my situation, it would never work.
 
Scanner,

I agree with you. That seems like a great way to go.

I guess there are a couple of counterweighing factors though.
  1. By the time the kids are grown it will be time for the kids to go to college. Paying for the mother + the kids to go to college at the same time would be really tough on any family. And I think we can all agree that it would be a bad thing to saddle children with student loans if it can be avoided.
  2. I guess the only other concern is that for some reason it is easier for young people to find jobs after college than older people. Its a shame and I am not sure why that is.
That all being said, going to college after the children are raised sounds like a great option for someone who wants to have the best of both worlds: be a stay at home mom and have a career

Oh, and thanks for defending me against the implied sexist accusation
 
🙂 Isn’t nice that someone has volunteered his financial services? One Holy Catholic indeed!

👍 Anyhow, CA has some great books worksheets and tapes about family finances. Check out Phil Lenahan’s books at shop.catholic.com/

:twocents: It is a fallacy to assign financial responsibility to one member of the family. Everyone has a part to play in making, saving or multiplying funds.

As for college, you are predicting that a person knows his future, knows for a fact he will be entering the work force or is staying at home. I’m not good at predicting the future so I do what He says and leave it up to God.

If it was my child, male or female, I would do all that I could to help him, whether that was sending him money for college or helping him in a vocation. As a Catholic I must educate, provide and encourage my child to the best of my abilities.

I don’t know if my kid will be supporting herself unmarried, supporting her family as Husband stays home or is called to work in a profession. Chances are my kid won’t try to predict her future either.

:yup: One thing to do is educate your kid on finances. Work those scholarships! Get SalleMae, don’t get private loans. Start at Community College. Don’t go Fulltime. Work at school. Focus on what you like what your good at and learn to keep a budget spreadsheet.
 
Community College is definitely underrated.

Let me tell you something - I have gone to a 4 year university and then professional school. Now, because I view education as a continual thing, I am going to community college for a year part time, while I work.

It is by far, the best bargain for the money. For decimal points less, I plan to be able to increase my earning power by 30-50K.

Guess where my alumni dollar will be going? Not the 4 year university, not the professional school, yup, the community college.

I beleive 4 year universities in the future are going to start placing themselves out of the market and be exclusively for the rich, and perhaps upper middle class.
 
Children of college educated women have significant advantages over children of parents with less education. Even if a woman is “just going to stay home,” It is imperative that she get as much education as possible.

What happens when college-educated hubby meets a sweet young, educated thing at work, and mommy is sitting home with a high school education?

Education is not wasted on a woman who stays home, even if there is debt incurred in acquiring this education.
 
I’ll agree with that. But, personally, I don’t see how that would justify a $50,000 debt. There are plenty of good colleges that offer degrees for far less. Unless women intend to go into the workplace, there is no reason for that excessive of an investment.
 
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