Student loans and NFP

[MAV0524]

So I’m a recent masters graduate (25 years of age) looking for work with sizable but manageable debt ($41,000). I’m kind of worried how the debt will affect my future ability to provide for a family on one income, especially if the person I marry has plenty of student debt herself. I probably won’t marry for some time. I do not currently have a girlfriend, but I will have the loans for quite some time.

My main question. Do you think it would be okay to use NFP after marrying to be able pay debt down faster to a more manageable level for one income? Postponing pregnancy for a year or two could allow each spouse to earn an income. Some say you should be financially set before marrying, but, in this day and age, many couples with combined student loans will not be “financially set” until their thirties.

Is paying off sizable student loans that prevent a one-income situation in child-rearing years a serious enough reason for NFP?

 

[Bookcat]

One must judge before God…but I am not so convinced that such would be a serious reason. For really one just consolidates the loans and gets a lower smaller payment…and well one is going to pay them for years anyhow.

Compendium of the Catechism issued by Pope Benedict XVI

1. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

1. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

 

[Debora123]

So I’m a recent masters graduate (25 years of age) looking for work with sizable but manageable debt ($41,000). I’m kind of worried how the debt will affect my future ability to provide for a family on one income, especially if the person I marry has plenty of student debt herself. I probably won’t marry for some time. I do not currently have a girlfriend, but I will have the loans for quite some time.

My main question. Do you think it would be okay to use NFP after marrying to be able pay debt down faster to a more manageable level for one income? Postponing pregnancy for a year or two could allow each spouse to earn an income. Some say you should be financially set before marrying, but, in this day and age, many couples with combined student loans will not be “financially set” until their thirties.

**Is paying off sizable student loans that prevent a one-income situation in child-rearing years **a serious enough reason for NFP?

Yes.

You basically answered your own question already in the last sentence there - “Loans that prevent a one-income situation in child rearing years.”

 

[MAV0524]

One must judge before God…but I am not so convinced that such would be a serious reason. For really one just consolidates the loans and gets a lower smaller payment…and well one is going to pay them for years anyhow.

You can extend the repayment period from 10 years to 25 years, but then you will be basically only paying interest for many years. Even with the extended repayment plan, you could be spending 20%ish of your gross income on student debt repayment.

I agree that it’s a bit on the fence between an acceptable reason and unacceptable reason. Kind of hard to judge. It seems like being able to support your family on one income is a serious reason, but many families still to have to two incomes to get by.

 

[jmjconder]

**You are asking for permission to practice NFP due to student loans and you already have answered your own question…You are questioning the morality of this - do not consider this as an option.

One does not ask such a question unless they want validation of a questionable decision. This sounds like one of those questions.

Please do not interfere with God’s great plan for your life based on worldly standards…money.**

 

[Bookcat]

You can extend the repayment period from 10 years to 25 years, but then you will be basically only paying interest for many years. Even with the extended repayment plan, you could be spending 20%ish of your gross income on student debt repayment.

I agree that it’s a bit on the fence between an acceptable reason and unacceptable reason. Kind of hard to judge. It seems like being able to support your family on one income is a serious reason, but many families still to have to two incomes to get by.

Such is the reality of todays education…

I pay a reasonable amount…for around 20 years. No worries. It is what works.

Also lets say one gets married at age 25 …and then waits a few years…judging one has a serious reason.

You and she will be then older…and could thus have more difficulty in even having children…

(You may not have a family to support…)

 

[Bookcat]

Get a hold of the book “Covenanted Happiness” by Mgsr. Cormac Burke (he was a judge on the Roman Rota)

 

[1ke]

My main question. Do you think it would be okay to use NFP after marrying to be able pay debt down faster to a more manageable level for one income?

I think you are not approaching Church teaching on periodic continence properly. Let’s look at the facts:

• Recourse to the infertile period (periodic continence, NFP) is to be used when a couple has a *serious *reason to space children at that time.
• You aren’t married and may not be for a very long time, if ever
• You aren’t in proximate preparation for marriage
• You have a master’s degree and $41K in debt-- which you can more than handle
• You have created a hypothetical situation in which you are going to marry someone with a large student load debt, which may not be the case at all.
• You completely ignore the necessity of discernment between the spoues. A future spouse may not see this as a serious reason to avoid/postpone pregnancy at all. It’s not your decision to make alone.
• You also place upon this scenario the requirement of a single-income family, while the Church requires no such thing.

In short, you are dreaming up reasons to use NFP when none exist, the most important of which is an actual marriage with an actual wife and an actual serious reason to postpone a pregnancy, and after *prayer and discernment *between the spouses.

I don’t think you understand what the Church teaches regarding periodic continence. It’s not an intellectual exercise. It’s a prayerful discernment that a couple makes TOGETHER and in the moment– actually at *every *moment.

Postponing pregnancy for a year or two could allow each spouse to earn an income. Some say you should be financially set before marrying, but, in this day and age, many couples with combined student loans will not be “financially set” until their thirties.

The Church has no such teaching. There is no requirement to be “financially set.” There is no Church teaching to this effect at all. And, there is no Church teaching requiring a one-income family.

Is paying off sizable student loans that prevent a one-income situation in child-rearing years a serious enough reason for NFP?

This is something that you will need to discern prayerfully with your spouse and your priest.

 

[Corki]

So I’m a recent masters graduate (25 years of age) looking for work with sizable but manageable debt ($41,000). I’m kind of worried how the debt will affect my future ability to provide for a family on one income, especially if the person I marry has plenty of student debt herself. I probably won’t marry for some time. I do not currently have a girlfriend, but I will have the loans for quite some time.

My main question. Do you think it would be okay to use NFP after marrying to be able pay debt down faster to a more manageable level for one income? Postponing pregnancy for a year or two could allow each spouse to earn an income. Some say you should be financially set before marrying, but, in this day and age, many couples with combined student loans will not be “financially set” until their thirties.

Is paying off sizable student loans that prevent a one-income situation in child-rearing years a serious enough reason for NFP?

Barring a serious health reason, there are very few reasons a couple should start a marriage already using NFP. If you are not seriously in a relationship now, you have plenty of time to live frugally and pay that debt way down before you seriously consider marriage. That way, when you do get married you will be prepared for more than just the ceremony.

 

[MAV0524]

**You are asking for permission to practice NFP due to student loans and you already have answered your own question…You are questioning the morality of this - do not consider this as an option.

One does not ask such a question unless they want validation of a questionable decision. This sounds like one of those questions.

Please do not interfere with God’s great plan for your life based on worldly standards…money.**

I didn’t answer my own question…or at least I didn’t mean to.

Money is not a worldly standard. It pays rent.

 

[MAV0524]

I think you are not approaching Church teaching on periodic continence properly. Let’s look at the facts:

• Recourse to the infertile period (periodic continence, NFP) is to be used when a couple has a *serious *reason to space children at that time.
• You aren’t married and may not be for a very long time, if ever
• You aren’t in proximate preparation for marriage
• You have a master’s degree and $41K in debt-- which you can more than handle
• You have created a hypothetical situation in which you are going to marry someone with a large student load debt, which may not be the case at all.
• You completely ignore the necessity of discernment between the spoues. A future spouse may not see this as a serious reason to avoid/postpone pregnancy at all. It’s not your decision to make alone.
• You also place upon this scenario the requirement of a single-income family, while the Church requires no such thing.

In short, you are dreaming up reasons to use NFP when none exist, the most important of which is an actual marriage with an actual wife and an actual serious reason to postpone a pregnancy, and after *prayer and discernment *between the spouses.

I don’t think you understand what the Church teaches regarding periodic continence. It’s not an intellectual exercise. It’s a prayerful discernment that a couple makes TOGETHER and in the moment– actually at *every *moment.

The Church has no such teaching. There is no requirement to be “financially set.” There is no Church teaching to this effect at all. And, there is no Church teaching requiring a one-income family.

This is something that you will need to discern prayerfully with your spouse and your priest.

I think you’re missing the point. The point isn’t some hypothetical. The point is determining when I (and the thousands of students like me) will be able to get married. Part of dating is discerning marriage. I would have to discern if I can really afford to marry someone with large debts and have children either eventually or soon after. If it’s not a good reason to postpone, I probably wouldn’t be able to marry some with debts for many, many years.

One-income is basically a requirement to homeschool and I think it is a non-shallow ideal.

 

[Corki]

I think you’re missing the point. The point isn’t some hypothetical. The point is determining when I (and the thousands of students like me) will be able to get married. Part of dating is discerning marriage. I would have to discern if I can really afford to marry someone with large debts and have children either eventually or soon after. If it’s not a good reason to postpone, I probably wouldn’t be able to marry some with debts for many, many years.

One-income is basically a requirement to homeschool and I think it is a non-shallow ideal.

No that’s not the point. The point is, are you and thousands of students willing to sacrifice some and work hard to be financially stable before entering marriage? Maybe that means taking a higher paying job that you don’t love for a while or (gasp) working two jobs. $45K isn’t that much debt for a professional who lives frugally.

You don’t know if you will marry soon, you don’t know if your future wife will get pregnant right away, you don’t know if she will have debt, you don’t know if she will chose to stay at home or continue to work, you certainly don’t know if she will homeschool. And you most certainly don’t know if there will be a serious reason to use NFP at the start of your marriage.

 

[MAV0524]

No that’s not the point. The point is, are you and thousands of students willing to sacrifice some and work hard to be financially stable before entering marriage? Maybe that means taking a higher paying job that you don’t love for a while or (gasp) working two jobs. $45K isn’t that much debt for a professional who lives frugally.

You don’t know if you will marry soon, you don’t know if your future wife will get pregnant right away, you don’t know if she will have debt, you don’t know if she will chose to stay at home or continue to work, you certainly don’t know if she will homeschool. And you most certainly don’t know if there will be a serious reason to use NFP at the start of your marriage.

Me and thousands of students are struggling to even find jobs that pay more than $8/hr. I actually am considering two jobs as soon as I find one job. I don’t think the Church requires us to work two jobs before we use NFP anyways. I will live frugally, but even with frugal living I will hardly pay it off in the next five years.

It would be very likely that she would have student loans. I hardly know anyone without student loans that weren’t from wealthy families or were in the military.

 

[Corki]

Me and thousands of students are struggling to even find jobs that pay more than $8/hr. I actually am considering two jobs as soon as I find one job. I don’t think the Church requires us to work two jobs before we use NFP anyways. I will live frugally, but even with frugal living I will hardly pay it off in the next five years.

It would be very likely that she would have student loans. I hardly know anyone without student loans that weren’t from wealthy families or were in the military.

Well, see? Now you have it down to five years. If you haven’t even met this girl yet, five years isn’t that long. You won’t be working for $8 an hour forever, let alone for five years. And why do you think this girl is not going to have a plan to pay off her debt, if she even still has it when you propose?

But seriously, if you are only working a minimum wage job and still have large debt when you meet Miss Right, that speaks more to a serious reason to wait on marriage rather than a reason to use NFP.

 

[Bookcat]

It is really something that needs to be judged by the couple…with that “practical judgment” dealing with what actually is at the time…not “speculative judgment”.

When you meet a girl…and get engaged. They one can begin to think together and get advice…

in the “hic et nunc” the here and now …that exists then.

 

[MAV0524]

Well, see? Now you have it down to five years. If you haven’t even met this girl yet, five years isn’t that long. You won’t be working for $8 an hour forever, let alone for five years. And why do you think this girl is not going to have a plan to pay off her debt, if she even still has it when you propose?

But seriously, if you are only working a minimum wage job and still have large debt when you meet Miss Right, that speaks more to a serious reason to wait on marriage rather than a reason to use NFP.

It will probably take sevenish years. I understand what you are saying though. I just have combed through these forums and have seen little about college debt and marriage which surprised me considering the median debt load out there right now and the slow job market. There’s gotta be people out there in such a situation that can offer advice. I know a lot of people who marry with no money and lots of debt but many of them likely use contraception. They get married with no immediate plans for children. What are good Catholics to do who may not be able to afford them right away?

In case you haven’t noticed, I’m a worrier and a planner.

 

[jmjconder]

I didn’t answer my own question…or at least I didn’t mean to.

Money is not a worldly standard. It pays rent.

**I fully agree money in of itself is not evil and it is a vital part of daily living. However that does not seem to be the central issue in your question.

If worry about money is the driving decision not to have children - then money is a worldly evil. Please know that I understand given extraordinary martial circumstances that finances may come into the picture…however one needs to be spiritually advised on that decision. Are members of the family not receiving their basic needs? Than NFP may be advisable.

There are alternatives to finding a less expensive monthly payment for your student loans. So what is the answer to being open to life? Is it under personal terms or under God’s? I have many friends that have large families and I wonder how they “make” it - however God provides to those who listen to HIM.

One’s ultimate happiness is found in the arms of the will of God! He will not forsaken.**

 

[Bookcat]

In case you haven’t noticed, I’m a worrier and a planner.

We ought not worry about things over much. Especially things that do not yet even exist as a reality.

As I noted:

It is really something that needs to be judged by the couple…with that “practical judgment” dealing with what actually is at the time…not “speculative judgment”.

When you meet a girl…and get engaged. They one can begin to think together and get advice…

in the “hic et nunc” the here and now …that exists then.

 

[DeoJuventute]

There is no requirement to be “financially set.” There is no Church teaching to this effect at all. And, there is no Church teaching requiring a one-income family.

This is something that you will need to discern prayerfully with your spouse and your priest.

I think that every couple should take into account the very real non-financial costs that a family incurs when both parents are working. In many circumstances, the truly moral choice is postponing pregnancy so that a couple can get financially stable enough to allow mom to say home with the kids. What is a couple is planning to homeschool? What if there are no grandparents in the area to babysit? To suggest that this is not a serious reason, for purposes of postponing pregnancy, is misleading.

Your suggestion would have couples, regardless of their financial situation, go ahead and have children when they may not be in a place financially where that is prudent. The Church wants to encourage responsible parenthood. And just because you can “make it” financially with another child does not at all mean that it is the wise, moral, or responsible thing to do. Part of the whole responsibility analysis requires much more than simple financial capability.

 

[DeoJuventute]

Barring a serious health reason, there are very few reasons a couple should start a marriage already using NFP.

If that were the case, then many or even most dioceses in this country would not require couples to learn NFP before marrying. I think the assumption is that most couples will start their marriage using NFP (my wife and I certainly did). To expect young couples to immediately begin having kids is not only often naive, it’s also probably unwise in many situations.