Student Sues School District and Teacher After Being Punished for Expressing His Religious Beliefs

[JimR-OCDS]

Liberals preach tolerance and diversity till the cows come home. But as soon as an opposing view is expressed they want people shut up and scorned.

And you can prove that this teacher was a liberal ?

To be liberal is to be open to ALL points of view.

To me, this teacher is just fascist in the area of homosexuality.

Jim

 

[Dawnia]

The teacher’s recollection of events. Which, I might add, seems to be a lot more fresh and coherent than what the student is claiming in a lawsuit filled with ** “or words to that effect” ** because he can’t even remember what the teacher actually said.

That is lawyer speak. It has nothing to do with what the kid can or can’t remember.

 

[sedonaman]

And you can prove that this teacher was a liberal ?

To be liberal is to be open to ALL points of view.

Even error. Kinda looks like you proved it yourself.

To me, this teacher is just fascist in the area of homosexuality.

Ever hear of liberal fascism ?

 

[Hokomai]

Some observations:

• The teacher should not have taken either action (belt buckle or criticism/exclusion of the student who raised the free speech issue) in public. There may be circumstances in which a private counseling session would be appropriate, but this teacher does not sound like the best person to undertake this.
• People in power, like teachers, should not misuse that position to promote personal agendas. In this case, however, it seems the agenda was one supported by the school, so wearing the t-shirt is a bit like a teaching nun wearing a Christian symbol.
• The young man who stood up to the teacher was expressing ideas diametrically opposed to my own about homosexuality, but he was brave and willing to make a stand. I admire him greatly for that, and defend his right to do so.
• It is beyond all irony that the organisation supporting this brave young man in the name of freedom of religion should be named for someone who actually burned people to death for expressing religious views.

 

[GraceSofia]

Some observations:
It is beyond all irony that the organisation supporting this brave young man in the name of freedom of religion should be named for someone who actually burned people to death for expressing religious views.

The Thomas More Law Center is named for a lawyer famous for being beheaded because he refused to betray his religious conscience to accommodate the king’s wishes and remembered for saying that he died “the king’s good servant, but God’s first.”

Pope Benedict stood in Westminster Hall, where Thomas More was condemned to death, and said, “In particular, I recall the figure of Saint Thomas More, the great English scholar and statesman, who is admired by believers and non-believers alike for the integrity with which he followed his conscience, even at the cost of displeasing the sovereign whose “good servant” he was, because he chose to serve God first. The dilemma which faced More in those difficult times, the perennial question of the relationship between what is owed to Caesar and what is owed to God, allows me the opportunity to reflect with you briefly on the proper place of religious belief within the political process.”

 

[Hokomai]

The Thomas More Law Center is named for a lawyer famous for being beheaded because he refused to betray his religious conscience to accommodate the king’s wishes and remembered for saying that he died “the king’s good servant, but God’s first.”

Pope Benedict stood in Westminster Hall, where Thomas More was condemned to death, and said, “In particular, I recall the figure of Saint Thomas More, the great English scholar and statesman, who is admired by believers and non-believers alike for the integrity with which he followed his conscience, even at the cost of displeasing the sovereign whose “good servant” he was, because he chose to serve God first. The dilemma which faced More in those difficult times, the perennial question of the relationship between what is owed to Caesar and what is owed to God, allows me the opportunity to reflect with you briefly on the proper place of religious belief within the political process.”

I accept all that. But it does not alter the fact that this man who was willing to be beheaded for his faith was also willing to burn others for theirs. I certainly hope the Pope did not include these monstrous acts among those that counted towards his ‘integrity’.

 

[sedonaman]

… I certainly hope the Pope did not include these monstrous acts among those that counted towards his ‘integrity’.

That’s what I love: judging yesterday by today’s standards. At the time, the idea of religious liberty was at least 250 years in the future. What you have repeated here is rumor whose primary source is “the popular anti-Catholic polemicist John Foxe, who ‘placed Protestant sufferings against the background of… the Antichrist’.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Thomas_More. Sorta like one anti-Catholic writes a play about Pius XII, and it becomes gospel.

 

[Hokomai]

That’s what I love: judging yesterday by today’s standards. At the time, the idea of religious liberty was at least 250 years in the future.

Exactly. So is it not ironic that this case about religious freedom is being taken by an organisation named for someone who could not even conceive of the idea, and actually burned people for exercising it?

 

[sedonaman]

Exactly. So is it not ironic that this case about religious freedom is being taken by an organisation named for someone who could not even conceive of the idea, and actually burned people for exercising it?

If you say so, pal.

 

[Dawnia]

I accept all that. But it does not alter the fact that this man who was willing to be beheaded for his faith was also willing to burn others for theirs. I certainly hope the Pope did not include these monstrous acts among those that counted towards his ‘integrity’.

Sources? Not saying it isn’t true, but it seems fishy considering he didn’t hold a position with such authority as to burn anyone at the stake.

 

[estesbob]

Sources? Not saying it isn’t true, but it seems fishy considering he didn’t hold a position with such authority as to burn anyone at the stake.

There were exactly 6 people burned at the stake during his chancellorship. As Chancellor he could not condemn anyone to death-just enforce sentences that had been levieid

 

[Hokomai]

Sources? Not saying it isn’t true, but it seems fishy considering he didn’t hold a position with such authority as to burn anyone at the stake.

Estesbob is right about the number of burnings (six), although he persecuted and imprisoned others, as well as destroying literature produced by protestants. Dawnia just Google "Thomas More’ and ‘burnings’ or ‘protestants’ and you will find plenty of sources. It is not disputed. I continue to think that it is ironic that an organisation names for this man should be taking cases in the name of religious freedom. Thomas More did not support religious freedom.

 

[sedonaman]

… I continue to think that it is ironic that an organisation names for this man should be taking cases in the name of religious freedom.

So? You’ve already made this OT point at least three times. We understand by now that you think this.

Thomas More did not support religious freedom.

Can you find any person in a position of authority at the time who did support religious freedom as you define it?

 

[incense]

Estesbob is right about the number of burnings (six), although he persecuted and imprisoned others, as well as destroying literature produced by protestants. Dawnia just Google "Thomas More’ and ‘burnings’ or ‘protestants’ and you will find plenty of sources. It is not disputed. I continue to think that it is ironic that an organisation names for this man should be taking cases in the name of religious freedom. Thomas More did not support religious freedom.

More was a prolific writer and wrote about why the documents were destroyed. If you’re referring to Luther and Tyndale, Tyndale purposefully mistranslated certain words to further his philosophy and mislead people. It’s in the notes of Tyndale’s Bible,

I only found one on the internet after searching for several days. Most modern translations leave off his notes that were part of his translation. King Henry ordered Tyndale to refute Luther, and he did.

Luther and Tyndale was forming a new religion while claiming it was the old. That’s a big difference than just forming your own religion and saying so. It’s a matter of eternal life for people mislead.

Influence and reputation

The steadfastness and courage with which More held on to his religious convictions in the face of ruin and death and the dignity with which he conducted himself during his imprisonment, trial, and execution, contributed much to More’s posthumous reputation, particularly among Catholics. Many historians argue that his conviction for treason was unjust, and even among some Protestants his execution was viewed as heavy-handed.[citation needed] His friend Erasmus defended More’s character as “more pure than any snow” and described his genius as “such as England never had and never again will have.” When he knew of the execution, Emperor Charles V said: “Had we been master of such a servant, we would rather have lost the best city of our dominions than such a worthy councillor.”

More was greatly admired by the Anglican writer Jonathan Swift. Swift wrote that More was “a person of the greatest virtue this kingdom ever produced”.[30][31] Samuel Johnson is often cited as the origin of that quote,[32][33] but mistakenly: it is not to be found in his writings or recorded by Boswell.

The English Roman Catholic writer G. K. Chesterton said of More that “He may come to be counted the greatest Englishman, or at least the greatest historical character in English history.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_More

 

[chevalier]

The teacher literally got Daniel’s opinion out of him without having any business doing so. The boy had two alternatives not producing a harmful outcome to him: 1) agree with the teacher, 2) lie. This is a clear case.

Unfortunately, I can fully well imagine a federal judge agreeing with the school and with the teacher. I’ve heard enough from liberal lawyers who forget their law.

Kudos to TMLC and I so darn wish I could be on the trial counsel for that case. Sigh.

The teacher should be made to apologise and reminded of his duties, as well as punished for not teaching the economy course he was paid for, in favour of promoting the gay lifestyle.

 

[sedonaman]

The teacher literally got Daniel’s opinion out of him without having any business doing so.

The boy had two alternatives not producing a harmful outcome to him: 1) agree with the teacher, 2) lie.

These two are basically the same.

Unfortunately, I can fully well imagine a federal judge agreeing with the school and with the teacher. I’ve heard enough from liberal lawyers who forget their law.

So can I, but the teacher, et al, are on shaky ground. Courts have ruled in the past that students don’t shed their free speech rights at the campus entrance, and the teacher did ask for the student’s opinion. One could argue that the student was merely obeying the teacher, an authority figure. And don’t forget that he was made a public ridicule at the student assembly a few months later. And liberals talk about making everyone feel included. [Note to those who would challenge my blaming liberals: Liberals have run the schools for the last 50-plus years; promoting the homosexual lifestyle is a liberal idea.]

…
The teacher should be made to apologise and reminded of his duties, as well as punished for not teaching the economy course he was paid for, in favour of promoting the gay lifestyle.

How much do you want to bet the school district pays for his defense?

 

[pat_mc_1]

The latest outrage:

How many of us would be willing to raise a hand in agreement after seeing what happened to a fellow student?

Read the lawsuit here:
thomasmore.org/downloads/sb_thomasmore/HowellPublicSchoolsComplaint–FiledDecember142011.pdf

He was wearing a rebel flag belt buckle on a day in honor for the respect and dignity of the homosexual person and the teacher thought that was disrespectful the gay and black community and he was asked to leave the classroom. Thats the story you wont hear from Catholic news.

 

[estesbob]

He was wearing a rebel flag belt buckle on a day in honor for the respect and dignity of the homosexual person and the teacher thought that was disrespectful the gay and black community and he was asked to leave the classroom. Thats the story you wont hear from Catholic news.

Why would his belt buckle matter?

 

[sedonaman]

He was wearing a rebel flag belt buckle on a day in honor for the respect and dignity of the homosexual person and the teacher thought that was disrespectful the gay and black community and he was asked to leave the classroom. Thats the story you wont hear from Catholic news.

Huh? You are getting your players mixed up. From the lawsuit, paragraphs 48 and 49:

1. At the beginning of the instruction and in front of the entire class, Defendant McDowell [the teacher] confronted a female student who was wearing a Confederate flag belt buckle. Defendant McDowell directed the [female] student to remove the article of clothing because he [the teacher] considered it offensive. The female student had worn this belt and buckle to class on several prior occasions without receiving a reprimand.

1. In light of Defendant McDowell’s opening remarks to the [female] student about “anti-bullying” day and tolerance, Plaintiff D.K.G. [the plaintiff student] raised his hand and asked Defendant McDowell why it was permissible to display a rainbow flag, which is offensive to some people, but not a Confederate flag, which Defendant McDowell found offensive.

You might also consider whether speech should be banned simply because some find it “offensive”.

What does Catholic news have to do with this story? I got it from the Thomas More Law Center, a legal advocacy group.

 

[donsnow]

My part of Texas is not Southern, so I can understand umbrage at the Stars and Bars. But. That doesn’t change a person’s right to wear any flag. So, the teacher was still attacking the student’s rights and liberties. Which, happens in class rooms.
In my day, students didn’t have rights and liberties, the had homework, tests and extra curricula activities.
Of course, in my day, the militant gays had not hi-jacked the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s civil rights movement, either.