'Study, pray, vote,' Pope tells Americans ahead of elections

[Ridgerunner]

But if the choice is so clear for the Catholic voter- why didn’t the Pope state this? Why didn’t he even express the primacy of the abortion issue over all other issues?

He didn’t have to endorse any candidate. He could have spline about the supposed “non-negotiable”. He didn’t- he spoke of a difficult choice between flawed candidates.

He, Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict and numerous bishops have all made it quite clear that we can’t support “intrinsic evils” like abortion, and that to ever vote for an abortion candidate, the opposition must be a supporter of an equally grave intrinsic evil. In this election, there isn’t one.

Popes don’t endorse particular candidates.

Those who try to confuse Catholics about the evils of supporting abortion really ought to ponder Matthew 18:6. But, of course, I realize there are some, even Catholics, who prefer not to think of abortion as evil. Whether that’s just a rationalization to self-excuse from supporting abortion candidates, is hard to know in any individual case.

But supporting Hillary Clinton is supporting abortion on demand, including partial birth abortion, and there’s no way around that. It’s hard to know how Catholics like Kaine rationalize their support of abortion on demand, thus their participation in the evil of it. But they somehow do. Or at least they claim to have satisfactorialy explained it to themselves. But one is inclined to think one as well educated as Kaine knows and intends exactly what he’s supporting and promoting.

 

[meltzerboy]

No supporter of abortion l, after all I was adopted as an infant.

But… while abortion is objectively (i.e. “black and white”) a grave sin, like all grave sins culpability can indeed be subjective (i.e. “grey”).

Think for instance of a young woman pressured by a violent boyfriend, or a minor -a child really- pressured by parents eager to make a stain on their reputation disappear. We are a church of sinners who often find ourselves in moral quandaries or enslavement to our passions. Evangelization, and inner conversion, not strict legalism, are what can truly detach us from sin. In this the Holy Father is correct to note that life is often grey, particularly when it comes to culpability for grave acts in the presence of many difficult factors.

Any objective reading of Amoris Laetitia will clearly reveal his thinking on the “greyness” of life regardless of the objectivity of grave acts.

Catholic moral law may be black, Original Sin has plunged all of us into a sea of grey caused by attachments to our passions and outright idolatry. Nobody here is exempt…

Interesting remarks regarding culpability and the ‘greyness’ of life.

 

[TMC]

He absolutely said no such thing.

He said the question of who to vote for is a difficult one because there are difficulties with both candidates. Not sure how else to interpret that.

 

[Beautiful]

But if the choice is so clear for the Catholic voter- why didn’t the Pope state this? Why didn’t he even express the primacy of the abortion issue over all other issues?

He didn’t have to endorse any candidate. He could have spline about the supposed “non-negotiable”. He didn’t- he spoke of a difficult choice between flawed candidates.

(proclaimed earlier this year) In AMORIS LÆTITIA by Pope Francis line 83

Here I feel it urgent to state that, if the family is the sanctuary of life, the place where life is conceived and cared for, it is a horrendous contradiction when it becomes a place where life is rejected and destroyed. So great is the value of a human life, and so inalienable the right to life of an innocent child growing in the mother’s womb, that no alleged right to one’s own body can justify a decision to terminate that life, which is an end in itself and which can never be considered the “property” of another human being.

 

[Deus_tecum]

And Trump is not? Hillary has spent a lifetime of public service, foregoing what would have been a more lucrative career in private practice. Trump has spent a lifetime enriching himself. Which one again is self-serving?

Straw-man argument, as this is not the position of Clinton or any other politician. And by the way, it is not to help the poor. It is to help those displaced by civil war. True, many of them are poor. But their poverty is not their main problem. The alternative to giving them a place to live is forcing them to continue to live in unsafe refugee camps.

Trump has managed to divide people, not only according to race and class, but he has even managed to divide the Republican Party. I think he wins the “biggest divider” contest hands down.

The Clintons acquired wealth and power from politics, and you call it “public service”. lol.

Not a strawman, because stated position is not always what policy turns out to be. Clinton is a liar so her stated position is rubbish. Obama also has stated positions on immigration that are nullified by the open border. Suddenly all immigration is due to civil war? Don’t bother trying to answer that.

All political parties have some division in them. This is why we have primaries.

 

[amiga2u]

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Sunday advised U.S. Catholics who feel they are torn between two imperfect candidates for president to study and pray before they vote and to make sure to follow their conscience.

During his traditional, freewheeling in-flight news conference with reporters on the plane returning from Azerbaijan, Francis was asked how he would counsel American faithful and what wisdom they should keep in mind.

“You have asked me a question that describes a difficult choice because, according to you, there are difficulties with one and difficulties with the other,” the pope said, without naming Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump.

In posing the question, the reporter made allusions to Clinton’s support of abortion and Trump’s statements vilifying migrants and religious minorities.

“During political campaigns, I never say a word,” the pope said. “The people are sovereign. I would only say, study the proposals well, pray and choose with your conscience.”

But in the rest of his response, while stressing that he wanted to talk about a “fictional situation,” Francis appeared to be saying that the United States was among the countries that had become so politicized that it had effectively lost what he called a culture of politics.

“When in any country there are two, three or four candidates who don’t satisfy everyone, it means that perhaps the political life of that country has become too politicized and that it does not have much political culture,” he said.

“People say ‘I’m from this party’ or ‘I’m from that party,’ but effectively, they don’t have clear thoughts about the basics, about proposals,” he said

yahoo.com/news/study-pray-vote-pope-tells-americans-ahead-elections-221531538.html

 

[amiga2u]

amiga2u:
I’m having a hard time deciding whether I should vote this year. My conscience tells me that the candidates are not the ideal persons to run this nation. I might decide to vote only for the issues on my state and leave everything else blank. HEAVENLY FATHER… WE ARE IN SO MUCH TROUBLE AND NEED YOUR GUIDANCE AND BLESSINGS!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

He said the question of who to vote for is a difficult one because there are difficulties with both candidates. Not sure how else to interpret that.

How about just what he said?

That’s not the same thing as asserting that he said it’s all “in the gray”.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m having a hard time deciding whether I should vote this year. My conscience tells me that the candidates are not the ideal persons to run this nation. I might decide to vote only for the issues on my state and leave everything else blank. HEAVENLY FATHER… WE ARE IN SO MUCH TROUBLE AND NEED YOUR GUIDANCE AND BLESSINGS!!

Of course they’re not ideal. I cannot conscientiously vote for Clinton, and never, ever felt I could. I’m not a supporter of abortion on demand, partial birth abortion as she is, and (more recently) I am appalled at her insistence that I need to “change my religion” to accommodate abortion for her.

Trump wasn’t my first, second or third choice. But at least he won’t be packing the Supreme Court with abortionists like Hillary has promised to do, and he won’t be selling this country’s interests out for money as Hillary has, and he won’t likely be starting any wars like Clinton has. Kind of looks now like she started the Libya war for money. No surprise to that.

I don’t expect “ideal”. Survival and not “changing my religion” would be nice.

 

[TMC]

How about just what he said?

That’s not the same thing as asserting that he said it’s all “in the gray”.

I think its a fair synopsis of his comments, particularly as he is fond of that term. He certainly did not say, or even suggest, that a Catholic must vote for one candidate over the other. Are you suggesting that he said (or meant) that the choice is black and white?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think its a fair synopsis of his comments, particularly as he is fond of that term. He certainly did not say, or even suggest, that a Catholic must vote for one candidate over the other. Are you suggesting that he said (or meant) that the choice is black and white?

No it isn’t a fair synopsis. He never said abortion is “in the gray” as asserted. He did say it’s "not a “lesser evil”, but a “crime”.

Popes don’t endorse candidates. But neither do they so much as suggest we support “crime” in our voting.

 

[TMC]

No it isn’t a fair synopsis. He never said abortion is “in the gray” as asserted. He did say it’s "not a “lesser evil”, but a “crime”.

Popes don’t endorse candidates. But neither do they so much as suggest we support “crime” in our voting.

I didn’t say a single word about abortion. Where is that coming from? I was talking about the opinion the Pope expressed on these candidates. The Pope said both present difficulties, and choosing between them was difficult. Which is the same thing that Cardinal Chaput said about them. Which is also consistent with what Bishop Conley said about them - and I am sure other Church officials.

I know you are anxious to support your candidate, but there is no need to put words in my mouth, or to twist the words of others, to do so.

 

[Beautiful]

I didn’t say a single word about **abortion. Where is that coming from? ** I was talking about the opinion the Pope expressed on these candidates. The Pope said both present difficulties, and choosing between them was difficult. Which is the same thing that Cardinal Chaput said about them. Which is also consistent with what Bishop Conley said about them - and I am sure other Church officials.

I know you are anxious to support your candidate, but there is no need to put words in my mouth, or to twist the words of others, to do so.

No twisting going on here. It is common knowledge that defending the rights of unborn is paramount. Protecting the life of unborn sets a precedence for protecting all life.

(proclaimed earlier this year) In AMORIS LÆTITIA by Pope Francis line 83

Here I feel it urgent to state that, if the family is the sanctuary of life, the place where life is conceived and cared for, it is a horrendous contradiction when it becomes a place where life is rejected and destroyed. So great is the value of a human life, and so inalienable the right to life of an innocent child growing in the mother’s womb, that no alleged right to one’s own body can justify a decision to terminate that life, which is an end in itself and which can never be considered the “property” of another human being.

Pope Francis said ‘study, pray, vote’

 

[TMC]

No twisting going on here. It is common knowledge that defending the rights of unborn is paramount. Protecting the life of unborn sets a precedence for protecting all life.

(proclaimed earlier this year) In AMORIS LÆTITIA by Pope Francis line 83

Pope Francis said ‘study, pray, vote’

Suggesting that I said the Pope put abortion into a gray area, when I said nothing remotely like that, it certainly twisting. It is actually more than merely twisting, but I am trying to be charitable.

The Pope said what he said. I understand that hard core partisans don’t like it, but that does not change what he said.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I agree abortion is not gray. On the other hand, the prudent decision in this years election involves a lot of gray. There is no slam dunk choice from a Catholic perspective, as many bishops have noted.

 

[abelville]

The Pope says to vote your conscience. I agree, take your conscience to the Bible, the Catechism, and the Church and you will find the moral compass on exactly who to vote for, and its NOT a grey area. Hillary will wipe away your freedom to worship according to the Bible, the Catechism, and the Holy Catholic Church. It is very black and white now. Trump will support our freedom to worship the way we always have. This is the most important Presidential election in history. As far is this election go, the people are not sovereign, only God is. We are just supposed to carry out His will and vote – with Him in mind!
I’m a convert to Catholicism – 20 years now. I was so happy to find the first church that Christ started. But over the years, I’ve noticed that more Christians outside of the church take the pro life stance more seriously as well as their “religious freedom”, they get it. They really know what is at stake and they will be taking it to the polls. How can any catholic vote for Hillary?
I hear the Vicar of Christ saying just vote your conscience, then I hear Franklin Graham say boldly – vote for religious freedom and pro life, Trump! The vicar of Christ says anyone who builds a wall is non-Christian. Isn’t there a wall around the Vatican? I pray for our Pope often, and our church, and I know I’m just a wee sinner needing much prayer myself. But this situation is very serious, and we need to wake up and do what is right. Thankfully my priest is very vocal about it. I realize that it is historically the practice for Pope’s to not get involved. Do you really think our first Pope “Peter”, if he was here today would have stayed grey on this and say “vote your conscience”?

 

[IsaiahSpirit]

The Pope says to vote your conscience. I agree, take your conscience to the Bible, the Catechism, and the Church and you will find the moral compass on exactly who to vote for, and its NOT a grey area. Hillary will wipe away your freedom to worship according to the Bible, the Catechism, and the Holy Catholic Church. It is very black and white now. Trump will support our freedom to worship the way we always have. This is the most important Presidential election in history. As far is this election go, the people are not sovereign, only God is. We are just supposed to carry out His will and vote – with Him in mind!
I’m a convert to Catholicism – 20 years now. I was so happy to find the first church that Christ started. But over the years, I’ve noticed that more Christians outside of the church take the pro life stance more seriously as well as their “religious freedom”, they get it. They really know what is at stake and they will be taking it to the polls. How can any catholic vote for Hillary?
I hear the Vicar of Christ saying just vote your conscience, then I hear Franklin Graham say boldly – vote for religious freedom and pro life, Trump! The vicar of Christ says anyone who builds a wall is non-Christian. Isn’t there a wall around the Vatican? I pray for our Pope often, and our church, and I know I’m just a wee sinner needing much prayer myself. But this situation is very serious, and we need to wake up and do what is right. Thankfully my priest is very vocal about it. I realize that it is historically the practice for Pope’s to not get involved. Do you really think our first Pope “Peter”, if he was here today would have stayed grey on this and say “vote your conscience”?

~
Thank you!
The tremendous wieght of certain moral concerns have been furthered by leaders in the Church. Religious Freedom and The Sanctity of Life from the moment of conception until a natural death are too extremely important concerns that one electable candidate radically opposes. The effect on the judicial branch will be felt for a very long time. How do we stem the tide? Who is in office does matter. While there were better candidates to oppose the evil that one candidate has a clear objective to accomplish, so much hangs in the balance to let the candidate that opposes these concerns be elected.
I miss a clear prophet, a sign of contradiction, John Cardinal O’Conner. I’m sure he would have been brave in Germany in the 1930s & 40s. And also in a nation occupied by the Soviet Union.
We need to listen to those who have the courage of the Holy Spirit to tell it like it is. But sadly, most times of distress in The Holy Bible, and the centuries since Jesus Christ first appeared, the clear minded prophets aren’t recognized until after dire consequences.