Study says genetics does have a role in sexual orientation

[quiet52]

In Matthew 19:12 Jesus mentions, " … For there are some ‘eunuchs’, which are born from their mother’s womb … "

In those times the word eunuch was more encompassing than it is today, as it included most conditions, physical and otherwise that had folks not conforming to mainstream sexual ‘norms’.

I hope you are not implying that Jesus was referring to same-sex attraction.

Matthew 19:12: "Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

Footnote on 19:12 from New American Bible Revised Edition:

Incapable of marriage: literally, “eunuchs.” Three classes are mentioned, eunuchs from birth, eunuchs by castration, and those who have voluntarily renounced marriage (literally, “have made themselves eunuchs”) for the sake of the kingdom, i.e., to devote themselves entirely to its service. Some scholars take the last class to be those who have been divorced by their spouses and have refused to enter another marriage. But it is more likely that it is rather those who have chosen never to marry, since that suits better the optional nature of the decision: whoever can…ought to accept it.

Footnote on 19:12 from Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, New Testament:

Eunuchs: i.e., royal servants in charge of a king’s wives. To safeguard against sexual temptations, eunuchs in the ancient Near East were either impotent or physically castrated. Jesus speaks metaphorically: those who have made themselves eunuchs are those who voluntarily embrace celibacy in imitation of Jesus and for service in his kingdom. These men are leaders entrusted with the care of Christ’s bride, the Church on earth; embracing consecrated virginity, they live by anticipation the life of heaven (22:30)…

For more information:

Celibacy for the Kingdom & the Fulfillment of Human Sexuality
catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0114.htm
(Those who were “born” as eunuchs are impotent due to birth defects)

Blog by priest: Some are Incapable of Marriage Because They Were Born So
blog.adw.org/2010/08/some-are-incapable-of-marriage-because-they-were-born-so
And yes, people with same-sex attraction are to live as eunuchs, for the sake of building up the Kingdom

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Just use plain common sense. They are telling you that homosexuality is genetic when 48% of two people who have exactly the same genes, hence they are genetically pretty much the same, are pairs in which one is NOT homosexual. If we are talking about something of genetic origin and people with identical genes…shouldn’t it be 100% for it to be genetic? Or at least 99.9%? The fact that they are bringing your attention to the increasing number in twins versus non twins, while bypassing the fact that almost half of the twins were pairs in which one is NOT gay and that if we are talking about genetics then it should be the same for for all the twins, shows you that they are manipulating the information.

To be fair, what they are saying is that there is a genetic factor, not that it is purely genetic. In the same way that genetics can give one a higher predisposition towards addiction, but this addiction will only be “activated” if the person consumes some of the addictive substance.

I can’t say anything about the validity of the study, but it wouldn’t surprise me all that much. But it is also irrelevant to the question of the morality of the behavior. Genetics that predispose one to getting angry and desiring to do violence do not excuse violent acts done out of anger. Genetics that predispose one to desiring same sex activity does not excuse such activity.

Such studies may be relevant to how we help each other do what is right. But that have no relevance in determining what that is.

 

[Cricket2]

Just use plain common sense. They are telling you that homosexuality is genetic when 48% of two people who have exactly the same genes, hence they are genetically pretty much the same, are pairs in which one is NOT homosexual. If we are talking about something of genetic origin and people with identical genes…shouldn’t it be 100% for it to be genetic? Or at least 99.9%? The fact that they are bringing your attention to the increasing number in twins versus non twins, while bypassing the fact that almost half of the twins were pairs in which one is NOT gay and that if we are talking about genetics then it should be the same for for all the twins, shows you that they are manipulating the information.

Actually a rate of 99% or 100% would not be necessary. Other studies of twins show similar results with such ailments as Scitzophrenia or Bipolar disorders. Other studies are suggesting that environmental exposure to birth control medications is having a significant impact on gender confusion. Who is to say that since even twins usually have separate placentas that one is not exposed to more of an environmental hazard than the other? There are too many variables to get a 100% match on about anything…even twins.

The figures provided if accurate are significant enough to suggest a genetic component. If this study did not address possible exposure of the twins/individuals studies to other hormonal exposure prior to birth there should be some measure of expected error included in the report. (At least in my experience of doing these type of reports many ages ago. I was a Bio Major with a concentration in genetics way back when…before the advent of PCs)

 

[AnimalSpirits]

In such a study as this, there is no way to separate the environmental influences from the genetic (unless a gene is known and can be looked for on a physical examination basis). It stands to reason that if two children (expecially twins) are raised in the same environment at the same time, that they will often be exposed to the same things to one degree or another. I think that there may be some inherited susceptibility to certain influences which would nudge a child towards a certain response such as SSA, but that it would be unlikely without some form of abuse or other trauma to otherwise manifest on its own. This still does not make SSA normal or a naturally occuring personality trait. In fact, the very opposite and it should be treated not applauded since no one recovers if everyone thinks the disease is just fine and dandy.

Well remember that the study distinguished between identical and fraternal twins- so some genetic or at least epigenetic factor seems to be the implication.

 

[Robertanthony]

Some Catholics appear to have a need to reject any notion of SSA as intrinsic to an individual, fearing that if genetics played a big part - ie. if one is “born that way” - then this challenges the validity of natural law, or suggests God makes mistakes.

Frankly, why does the detailed cause matter ? I take the view that SSA is not a choice (though homosexual relations is a choice). I take the view that it probably involves a biological element, be it a defect, disease or otherwise. It may be reinforced by upbringing. But I don’t see any of this as challenging or threatening any aspect of catholic belief.

I hope the causative factors are isolated given SSA is a great cross for many and their may be an opportunity to help those who seek help.

Very good, sir.

Jeffrey Dahmer had strong urges to rape men, kill them and eat their flesh. Obviously there was something about him that was very different from me because I’ve never felt like doing any of these things. As a matter of fact I’d rather die than do these things. When you see a co-worker at your job and you’re not quite sure if he/she is a woman or a man, that person carries quite a bit of fat around her midsection, has a big round face but almost no female breast to speak of, when some other co-worker tells you she is a woman and a lesbian, it doesn’t come as a shock. She didn’t choose her body type, her hormonal profile nor her SSA, Lady Gaga is probably right. “She was born that way”, which, let me stress, doesn’t make homosexual sex morally acceptable.

 

[quiet52]

More recent studies than the one addressed by the poster, which have used large random samples, have shown evidence that there is no “homosexual gene”. Gays are not “born that way.”

Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic
hollanddavis.com/?p=3647

A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000.

 

[Rau]

In such a study as this, there is no way to separate the environmental influences from the genetic (unless a gene is known and can be looked for on a physical examination basis). It stands to reason that if two children (expecially twins) are raised in the same environment at the same time, that they will often be exposed to the same things to one degree or another. I think that there may be some inherited susceptibility to certain influences which would nudge a child towards a certain response such as SSA, but that it would be unlikely without some form of **abuse or other trauma **to otherwise manifest on its own. This still does not make SSA normal or a naturally occuring personality trait. In fact, the very opposite and it should be treated not applauded since no one recovers if everyone thinks the disease is just fine and dandy.

What is your basis for saying that “abuse or trauma” is generally required for SSA to manifest?

Would it be a concern if SSA were a “naturally occurring” phenomena ? *

And so far as ‘treatment’ is concerned, this would be a great thing, but there is no known effective treatment, and development of such probably requires, at a minimum, understanding the cause. Some think it is an insult to SSA people to even enquire into “cause” - personally, I think that is nonsense. Sexual attraction exists on a spectrum, and to enquire into what determines where on the spectrum an individual falls is an entirely reasonable thing to investigate.*

 

[Rau]

To be fair, what they are saying is that there is a genetic factor, not that it is purely genetic. In the same way that genetics can give one a higher predisposition towards addiction, but this addiction will only be “activated” if the person consumes some of the addictive substance.

I can’t say anything about the validity of the study, but it wouldn’t surprise me all that much. But it is also irrelevant to the question of the morality of the behavior. Genetics that predispose one to getting angry and desiring to do violence do not excuse violent acts done out of anger. Genetics that predispose one to desiring same sex activity does not excuse such activity.

Such studies may be relevant to how we help each other do what is right. But that have no relevance in determining what that is.

Yes, I agree. Culpability is no doubt influenced by the individual’s conditions, quite apart from the morality of their actions.

 

[Rau]

More recent studies than the one addressed by the poster, which have used large random samples, have shown evidence that there is no “homosexual gene”. Gays are not “born that way.”

Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic
hollanddavis.com/?p=3647

Interesting article. Here’s a quote:

*Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other.

For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other. “These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says.*

I note there is **no **rationale given as to why “pornography or sexual abuse” gets mentioned. There was no suggestion that the study captured any info of that sought.

Overall, this seems to reinforce the view we really have no clue about the cause.

 

[Abu]

Myths and Misconceptions About Behavioral Genetics And Homosexuality
Douglas A. Abbott Ph.D., July 2007
“The genetic theory of homosexuality rests on a foundation of three seminal studies in the early 1990’s – which all have serious methodological, sampling, and interpretation problems.”

The disordered condition has been found, by those who wish to correct it, to respond well to reparative therapy. Studies show that homosexuals experience considerably higher levels of mental illness and substance abuse than heterosexuals. A detailed review of the research has shown that “no other group of comparable size in society experiences such intense and widespread pathology.”36
Note:
36. James E. Phelan, Neil Whitehead, Philip M. Sutton, “What Research Shows: NARTH’s Response to the APA Claims on Homosexuality,” *Journal of Human Sexuality *Vol. 1, p. 93 (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, 2009).

“There is a whole way of thinking and feeling that occurs long before the inclination to genital acts with persons of the same sex arises in the heart…the disorder itself is rooted in unhealthy emotions.” [Fr John A Harvey, *The Truth About Homosexuality, Ignatius, 1996, p 154-5. Also Elizabeth Moberly’s Homosexuality: A New Christian Ethic, and Gerald van Aardweg’s Homosexuality and Hope, for an analysis of such emotions].

The chapter on Women With Homosexual Orientation gives many testimonies to the efficacy of reparative therapy and indicates that it is easier for many women to overcome their problem than men. The Truth About Homosexuality, Fr John A Harvey O.S.F.S., Ignatius, 1996].

This problem has been well covered – the disorder is emotional and the person is just as responsible for seeking and accepting treatment as the alcoholic or drug user.

 

[Rau]

Myths and Misconceptions About Behavioral Genetics And Homosexuality
Douglas A. Abbott Ph.D., July 2007
“The genetic theory of homosexuality rests on a foundation of three seminal studies in the early 1990’s – which all have serious methodological, sampling, and interpretation problems.”

The disordered condition has been found, by those who wish to correct it, to respond well to reparative therapy. Studies show that homosexuals experience considerably higher levels of mental illness and substance abuse than heterosexuals. A detailed review of the research has shown that “no other group of comparable size in society experiences such intense and widespread pathology.”36
Note:
36. James E. Phelan, Neil Whitehead, Philip M. Sutton, “What Research Shows: NARTH’s Response to the APA Claims on Homosexuality,” *Journal of Human Sexuality *Vol. 1, p. 93 (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, 2009).

“There is a whole way of thinking and feeling that occurs long before the inclination to genital acts with persons of the same sex arises in the heart…the disorder itself is rooted in unhealthy emotions.” [Fr John A Harvey, *The Truth About Homosexuality

, Ignatius, 1996, p 154-5. Also Elizabeth Moberly’s Homosexuality: A New Christian Ethic, and Gerald van Aardweg’s Homosexuality and Hope, for an analysis of such emotions].

The chapter on Women With Homosexual Orientation gives many testimonies to the efficacy of reparative therapy and indicates that it is easier for many women to overcome their problem than men. The Truth About Homosexuality, Fr John A Harvey O.S.F.S., Ignatius, 1996].

This problem has been well covered – the disorder is emotional and the person is just as responsible for seeking and accepting treatment as the alcoholic or drug user.

Yet there are relatively few avenues for treatment, and even fewer case studies of effective treatment!

 

[Robertanthony]

Yet there are relatively few avenues for treatment, and even fewer case studies of effective treatment!

The bottomline is this: some people have this idea, conception of God, if anything goes against their idea, then they will reject that idea instead of reconsidering how they view God. Homosexuals are probably as responsible for their sexual orientation as I’m responsible for being heterosexual, being heterosexual is not a conscious decision I made, but it doesn’t sit well with these people when it is established that people have not much say on their sexual orientation, that attempting to alter it produces massive failure or marginal success, and that acting on homosexual urges by having sex with a man if you’re a man wil llikely land you in hell, especially if it becomes a way of life. Some people have more potential for a happy, balanced, productive life than others, likewise some people’s road to Heaven is immeasurably easier than others’. Whether or not my heterosexuality is encoded in my genes or not matters little, what matters is that I didn’t ask to be born (and here I am) and I didn’t specifically ask to be heterosexual (yet that’s how I am). I was just lucky to be in the right crowd when it came to sexual orientation.

 

[Rau]

The bottomline is this: some people have this idea, conception of God, if anything goes against their idea, then they will reject that idea instead of reconsidering how they view God. Homosexuals are probably as responsible for their sexual orientation as I’m responsible for being heterosexual, being heterosexual is not a conscious decision I made, but it doesn’t sit well with these people when it is established that people have not much say on their sexual orientation, that attempting to alter it produces massive failure or marginal success, and that acting on homosexual urges by having sex with a man if you’re a man wil llikely land you in hell, especially if it becomes a way of life. Some people have more potential for a happy, balanced, productive life than others, likewise some people’s road to Heaven is immeasurably easier than others’. Whether or not my heterosexuality is encoded in my genes or not matters little, what matters is that I didn’t ask to be born (and here I am) and I didn’t specifically ask to be heterosexual (yet that’s how I am). I was just lucky to be in the right crowd when it came to sexual orientation.

I generally agree with you. Fortunately, the idea that people choose SSA seems to be losing currency, though I note some are fairly anxious about the idea that it could have some genetic origin, and want to believe it is a function of upbringing and/or abuse/traumatic experience. There seems to be a need to have someone to blame, though this not the case with other for other conditions…

 

[SuperLuigi]

Some Catholics appear to have a need to reject any notion of SSA as intrinsic to an individual, fearing that if genetics played a big part - ie. if one is “born that way” - then this challenges the validity of natural law, or suggests God makes mistakes.

So does God make mistakes with autism and down syndrome?

No. These are crosses that some of us must bear. Same with SSA.

 

[Abu]

Dr. Francis S. Collins (MD and PhD) head of The Human Genome Project has said:
“There is an inescapable component of heritability to many human behavioral traits. For virtually none of them is heredity ever close to predictive…An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence [indicates] that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations.” (2006).
Do Elder Brothers Make You Gay?
By Neil Whitehead, Lower Hutt, New Zealand
narth.com/menus/NARTHBulletinWinter2006.pdf

 

[SinnersAnonymus]

This is a stormy thread but I will offer what I can.

The teaching of the Church from what I can understand stems from the idea that the cause is spiritual. This would explain the lack of effective treatments outside of prayer and the Church. It is a similar issue with other sexual orientations like pedophilia, no discernible cause and very hard or impossible to conventionally treat. This has actually caused the disorder aspect of pedophilia to be questioned inside Phycology circles.

That being said, I have met several people who were convinced that they had a different orientation (Bisexual for example) which subsided after a good prayer life and dealing with past traumas with their father and/or mother. I cannot say that this is the norm based on so few people. However, I was surprised that this could even occur since I formerly believed orientation was “hard wired”.

It is worth pointing out that in cases of ambiguous sexuality due to genetic issues (like hormonally caused problems resulting in a confused Biology), that these cases are very difficult and are often left to the doctor and parents to decide genders and mistakes do happen. A person with a male mind may have been chosen female at birth but is still attracted to females. This is not the same as waking up one day and realizing one is Lesbian.

Either way I think the Catechism of the Church states it best:

This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

It is a higher calling of prayer and hardship, love the person.

God Bless

 

[epan]

Just use plain common sense. They are telling you that homosexuality is genetic when 48% of two people who have exactly the same genes, hence they are genetically pretty much the same, are pairs in which one is NOT homosexual. If we are talking about something of genetic origin and people with identical genes…shouldn’t it be 100% for it to be genetic? Or at least 99.9%? The fact that they are bringing your attention to the increasing number in twins versus non twins, while bypassing the fact that almost half of the twins were pairs in which one is NOT gay and that if we are talking about genetics then it should be the same for for all the twins, shows you that they are manipulating the information.

Genetic information predisposes a person to some behavior, but it is only one of many factors. There are many behaviors where twins, and other genetically similar people may tend toward the same activity, but because of the other variables involved, the behavior may or may not be similar. It is incorrect to state that behavior will be 100% identical at all times in the same circumstances for all identical twins. I am no expert, but I have heard from respected educators in psychiatry that the incidence of homosexuality in identical twins is much higher than in general. I don’t know if anyone understands why this is true.

 

[RPRPsych]

In regards to #3 “at best, genetic variants might influence sexual orientation, and behaviour.” To me this is what the study would be proving, that our genetics shape our orientation. You would not necessarily disagree with the premise of the study in that it “might influence” and not that it causes? The study does not out right say it causes conduct just the orientation.

Since human brain development is under genetic influence - which is different from saying that it’s under one-to-one control from a specific “gay gene” or “schizophrenia gene” - I don’t disagree. However, I would want to see: (a) replications in the same genetic population (which I presume is Caucasian), (b) replications in other genetic pools, and (c) more statistical rigour and exclusion of confounding factors, before I come to a conclusion. Right now, I’m agnostic on the issue, but tilting towards the possibility of a small to moderate genetic influence on sexual orientation.

 

[Cricket2]

Just like the lower animals we all have the genetic predisposition to kill, rob, steal, cheat and rape but most of us through free will choose not to engage in these things. This is what separates us from the lower animals.

What I find strange is that there is far greater scientific evidence that links homosexual behavior to early childhood abuse yet this is ignored while this one study is accepted. In fact the preponderance of the evidence used to be that it is a mental illness. It was declassified as a mental illness because the psych community was politically pressured to declassify it.

Have to disagree here. No less than 33% of all families have incest occurring. (That is from reported cases. Add unreported to that and I suspect we could say it happens in 50% of all families.) Fathers with their children, mothers with their children, child against child and cousins, uncles and aunts. These are heterosexual couples abusing their children or allowing it to go on in their homes.

Sexual assault is done by predators, heterosexual and homosexual. Materials I have read have suggested that the rates of predation are more than likely equal among both sexual orientations. I think people that are homosexual are that way because of biochemical differences in their brains, exposure to hormones the mother is taking or exposed to during pregnancy and then, and least of all, due to the particular environment they may be raised in. In most cases I do not think it is a choice

Being homosexual does not make a person a predator. A predator is a predator, regardless of their own sexual orientation. They are a breed all their own.

Further, just being a homosexual is not a sin anymore than being single is. I think it does mean the individual is called to be celibate. I firmly accept the fact that sexual activity belongs only in marriage and outside of marriage it is sinful. There is entirely too much promiscuity now because people have lost touch with the true meaning and purpose of being sexually active.

 

[RPRPsych]

Being homosexual does not make a person a predator. A predator is a predator, regardless of their own sexual orientation. They are a breed all their own.

Further, just being a homosexual is not a sin anymore than being single is. I think it does mean the individual is called to be celibate. I firmly accept the fact that sexual activity belongs only in marriage and outside of marriage it is sinful. There is entirely too much promiscuity now because people have lost touch with the true meaning and purpose of being sexually active.

Excellent points here.