Study says genetics does have a role in sexual orientation

[Rau]

This is a stormy thread but I will offer what I can.

The teaching of the Church from what I can understand stems from the idea that the cause is spiritual. This would explain the lack of effective treatments outside of prayer and the Church. It is a similar issue with other sexual orientations like pedophilia, no discernible cause and very hard or impossible to conventionally treat. This has actually caused the disorder aspect of pedophilia to be questioned inside Phycology circles.

That being said, I have met several people who were convinced that they had a different orientation (Bisexual for example) which subsided after a good prayer life and dealing with past traumas with their father and/or mother. I cannot say that this is the norm based on so few people. However, I was surprised that this could even occur since I formerly believed orientation was “hard wired”.

It is worth pointing out that in cases of ambiguous sexuality due to genetic issues (like hormonally caused problems resulting in a confused Biology), that these cases are very difficult and are often left to the doctor and parents to decide genders and mistakes do happen. A person with a male mind may have been chosen female at birth but is still attracted to females. This is not the same as waking up one day and realizing one is Lesbian.

Either way I think the Catechism of the Church states it best:

“This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition”.

It is a higher calling of prayer and hardship, love the person.

God Bless

My understanding is that the Church expresses no opinion whatsoever on the “cause”.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Have to disagree here. No less than 33% of all families have incest occurring. (That is from reported cases. Add unreported to that and I suspect we could say it happens in 50% of all families.) Fathers with their children, mothers with their children, child against child and cousins, uncles and aunts. These are heterosexual couples abusing their children or allowing it to go on in their homes.

Sexual assault is done by predators, heterosexual and homosexual. Materials I have read have suggested that the rates of predation are more than likely equal among both sexual orientations. I think people that are homosexual are that way because of biochemical differences in their brains, exposure to hormones the mother is taking or exposed to during pregnancy and then, and least of all, due to the particular environment they may be raised in. In most cases I do not think it is a choice

Being homosexual does not make a person a predator. A predator is a predator, regardless of their own sexual orientation. They are a breed all their own.

Further, just being a homosexual is not a sin anymore than being single is. I think it does mean the individual is called to be celibate. I firmly accept the fact that sexual activity belongs only in marriage and outside of marriage it is sinful. There is entirely too much promiscuity now because people have lost touch with the true meaning and purpose of being sexually active.

Cricket,

Reread MGarland’s post. He/she was not saying that homosexuals are predators. He/she was saying that homosexuals often have been sexually abused as children.

 

[marymary1975]

Actually a rate of 99% or 100% would not be necessary. Other studies of twins show similar results with such ailments as Scitzophrenia or Bipolar disorders. Other studies are suggesting that environmental exposure to birth control medications is having a significant impact on gender confusion. Who is to say that since even twins usually have separate placentas that one is not exposed to more of an environmental hazard than the other? There are too many variables to get a 100% match on about anything…even twins.

The figures provided if accurate are significant enough to suggest a genetic component. If this study did not address possible exposure of the twins/individuals studies to other hormonal exposure prior to birth there should be some measure of expected error included in the report. (At least in my experience of doing these type of reports many ages ago. I was a Bio Major with a concentration in genetics way back when…before the advent of PCs)

However, with regard to bipolar you are missing a key factor ( and I am highly familiar with these mental illness after having to deal for many years with a bipolar husband) while bipolar disease runs in some (some not all) families, there is a huge environmenal and external component in bipolar disease. So of the study is not separating the twins where bipolar is known to run in past generations from the ones where there is a presence of external then you cannot get an accirate result. That is why I mentioned chron’s in which they sepatated the twins in the ones with known external factors from the rest.

What this study tries to prove is that you are born gay and there ate mo external factors. What the figure shows is that there are external factors. Even in the bipolar study where there is a huge external factor imfluence the number is 70%, way above the gay study, so again proves the point that the study which is trying to deny external factors is playing around with numbers so people can come to the conclusion they want.

 

[marymary1975]

Genetic information predisposes a person to some behavior, but it is only one of many factors. There are many behaviors where twins, and other genetically similar people may tend toward the same activity, but because of the other variables involved, the behavior may or may not be similar. It is incorrect to state that behavior will be 100% identical at all times in the same circumstances for all identical twins. I am no expert, but I have heard from respected educators in psychiatry that the incidence of homosexuality in identical twins is much higher than in general. I don’t know if anyone understands why this is true.

I think you are actually touching a key point: the word “behavior”. I totally agree that homosexuality is a behavior, and just like any other behavior is completely subject to our free will – hence the hormonal imbalance is irrelevant as it is a behavior --, it is caused most likely by many factors being many of those external factors and that was the reason why psychiatrist before 1970 considered it as a disorder.

The issue with these studies is that what they are trying to prove is exactly the opposite, that is something you are born with it that you have zero control over it and can’t be changedtherefore everyone has to accept it. My problem with these specific studies re homosexuality is that they are not really made to actually study anything but to push the acceptance of homosexual acts in society and to make people accept gay marriage. That is a big problem if you ask me.

 

[Odell]

There seems to be conflicting studies in regards to the role genetics or enviromental influences have on sexual orientation

I am not sure if this in reference to the study you are referencing but Bailey and Pillard say on page 1094 in A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation

Page 1090 it is written

On page 229 of Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraised, William Byne and Bruce Parsons write

Page 230 they write that Bailey and Pillard did not have

Where did you find this?

 

[Rau]

I think you are actually touching a key point: the word “behavior”. I totally agree that homosexuality is a behavior, and just like any other behavior is completely subject to our free will – hence the hormonal imbalance is irrelevant as it is a behavior --, it is caused most likely by many factors being many of those external factors and that was the reason why psychiatrist before 1970 considered it as a disorder.

The issue with these studies is that what they are trying to prove is exactly the opposite, that is something you are born with it that you have zero control over it and can’t be changedtherefore everyone has to accept it. My problem with these specific studies re homosexuality is that they are not really made to actually study anything but to push the acceptance of homosexual acts in society and to make people accept gay marriage. That is a big problem if you ask me.

Homosexual relations is a behaviour, SSA is not. Free Will applies to the former, not the latter.

Most scientists do not rig results to mislead or advocate a cause. Do you have a basis for the claim you make, or is it just a suspicion?

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Just use plain common sense. They are telling you that homosexuality is genetic when 48% of two people who have exactly the same genes, hence they are genetically pretty much the same, are pairs in which one is NOT homosexual. If we are talking about something of genetic origin and people with identical genes…shouldn’t it be 100% for it to be genetic? Or at least 99.9%?

Not if it is a genetic factor. I believe you are thinking of genetic determinism. If it’s a factor, then genetics is one of many contributors to the outcome.

An example of another condition for which there are genetic factors:

Antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy) has a genetic factor (parents with it are more likely to have children with it). It also has a nutritional factor (chances of a person developing it increase if the person was malnourished before a certain age) and an environmental factor (certain ongoing experiences within some ones environment raise the chances of some one developing it).

Pardon my mistakes. Sent from my mobile device.

 

[ephesians4]

Or, if you have two identical human beings and apply the same upbringing and experiences to them, they end up with slightly more similar minds and personalities than any other two human beings, and are slightly more likely respond to all kinds of things the same way, than any other two human beings might be.

For our next trick, a study using statistical tendencies between identical twins to show a genetic factor in preferring one soap opera, style of music, or particular shade of blue over another.

 

[marymary1975]

Most scientists do not rig results to mislead or advocate a cause. Do you have a basis for the claim you make, or is it just a suspicion?

If they are not trying to mislead then why do they play around with the results? In the study that established that children of lesbians fare better than children of heterosexual they took a group of white, wealthy lesbian women to compare it to a group of black and hispanic women with very low incomes living mostly in poor areas. Why didn’t they compare similar groups? And why the lesbian women who knew about the study filled out the forms while in the case of the other group they weren’t told about about the study and the forms were given to the teachers? Shouldn’t the forms be given in both groups to the teacher? Why does the person that has a personal interest in the outcome of the study gets to call the shots? If you don’t think that that is intent to mislead then what do you call it? Then you get headlines in all newspapers saying that lesbians are better parents than heterosexuals but they don’t tell you the groups were not similar. Again if that is not to advocate a cause then what is it?

 

[marymary1975]

Not if it is a genetic factor. I believe you are thinking of genetic determinism. If it’s a factor, then genetics is one of many contributors to the outcome.

An example of another condition for which there are genetic factors:

Antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy) has a genetic factor (parents with it are more likely to have children with it). It also has a nutritional factor (chances of a person developing it increase if the person was malnourished before a certain age) and an environmental factor (certain ongoing experiences within some ones environment raise the chances of some one developing it).

Pardon my mistakes. Sent from my mobile device.

If you read what I wrote re bipolar disorder you will see that I mentioned that subject already.

 

[Cricket2]

I think you are actually touching a key point: the word “behavior”. I totally agree that homosexuality is a behavior, and just like any other behavior is completely subject to our free will – hence the hormonal imbalance is irrelevant as it is a behavior --, it is caused most likely by many factors being many of those external factors and that was the reason why psychiatrist before 1970 considered it as a disorder.

The issue with these studies is that what they are trying to prove is exactly the opposite, that is something you are born with it that you have zero control over it and can’t be changedtherefore everyone has to accept it. My problem with these specific studies re homosexuality is that they are not really made to actually study anything but to push the acceptance of homosexual acts in society and to make people accept gay marriage. That is a big problem if you ask me.

So sorry, but hormonal imbalances can cause vast changes in behavior and mood. Any woman who suffers from PMS can attest to this. I am not talking about a mild case of being moody or cranky. PMS sufferers have dramatic changes in mood, severe depression, and can even in very severe cases become homicidal and suicidal. They require medical treatment to balance hormonal fluctuations. Thyroid disorders such as low thyroid, slow peoples ability to think, remain attentive, cause depression and can even lead to coma. High levels of thyroid can also cause death, severe weakness, nervousness etc. Hormone imbalances are related to weight problems, confusion, disorientation, heart rate issues and so forth.

It is now known, not suspected, but known, that if a woman becomes pregnant and continues to use birth control pills because she does not know she is pregnant, the developing fetus can be born a hermaphrodite (Both sexes), genital malformations, and have changes in brain development that result in what we are calling "gender confusion.

Homosexuality is not just a behavioral or mental disorder. I do not think it is even appropriate to consider it a mental disorder. Some people do make the choice to take on that sexual orientation, but the vast majority probably do not. I would suggest you do a little more factual study on the matter. Though homosexual individuals may be being called to a celibate life style in light of the Churches teachings, they don’t deserve to be dismissed as some sort of mental misfit or diseased animal out of other peoples phobias.

 

[marymary1975]

So sorry, but hormonal imbalances can cause vast changes in behavior and mood. Any woman who suffers from PMS can attest to this. I am not talking about a mild case of being moody or cranky. PMS sufferers have dramatic changes in mood, severe depression, and can even in very severe cases become homicidal and suicidal. They require medical treatment to balance hormonal fluctuations. Thyroid disorders such as low thyroid, slow peoples ability to think, remain attentive, cause depression and can even lead to coma. High levels of thyroid can also cause death, severe weakness, nervousness etc. Hormone imbalances are related to weight problems, confusion, disorientation, heart rate issues and so forth.

It is now known, not suspected, but known, that if a woman becomes pregnant and continues to use birth control pills because she does not know she is pregnant, the developing fetus can be born a hermaphrodite (Both sexes), genital malformations, and have changes in brain development that result in what we are calling "gender confusion.

Homosexuality is not just a behavioral or mental disorder. I do not think it is even appropriate to consider it a mental disorder. Some people do make the choice to take on that sexual orientation, but the vast majority probably do not. I would suggest you do a little more factual study on the matter. Though homosexual individuals may be being called to a celibate life style in light of the Churches teachings, they don’t deserve to be dismissed as some sort of mental misfit or diseased animal out of other peoples phobias.

I personally don’t like your view because it seems like you want to justify certain actions on hormones: then do you think that all rapist should be left out and allowed to rape because their hormones make them so to do, does women should be allowed to kill their newborn babies because the hormones cause them post partum depression? Yes I do know that hormones have an influence on people but we are not animals and we have a thinking brain so we have the capacity to control ourselves.

Yes PMS can be bad but does that make it acceptable for a woman to be violent against someone just because PMS? People with bipolar disease should be allowed to be violent just because their brains can’t produce certain chemicals? To me the hormone excuse just tries to justify wrong behavior. And while yes, same sex attraction is not a behavior, acting on it is a choosen behavior. Homosexuals don’t choose to feel an attraction but the minute they entervinto a homosexual relationship they are making a choice which as any other choice they have the free will to say no to it.

 

[Cricket2]

I personally don’t like your view because it seems like you want to justify certain actions on hormones: then do you think that all rapist should be left out and allowed to rape because their hormones make them so to do, does women should be allowed to kill their newborn babies because the hormones cause them post partum depression? Yes I do know that hormones have an influence on people but we are not animals and we have a thinking brain so we have the capacity to control ourselves.

Yes PMS can be bad but does that make it acceptable for a woman to be violent against someone just because PMS? People with bipolar disease should be allowed to be violent just because their brains can’t produce certain chemicals? To me the hormone excuse just tries to justify wrong behavior. And while yes, same sex attraction is not a behavior, acting on it is a choosen behavior. Homosexuals don’t choose to feel an attraction but the minute they entervinto a homosexual relationship they are making a choice which as any other choice they have the free will to say no to it.

Too much emotion here, and not enough logical, sensible thought. No, I don’t think rapist should be let free to run and women with PMS should not be allowed to be violent because of others. All I said was hormones can alter behavior and brain activity. For the record I am as straight as they get. I follow the teachings of the Church on sexual activity and belief that it only belongs in marriage.

I am called to be celibate and I believe that those who are gay or homosexual are called to be celibate as well. That said, homosexuality cannot be explained as a simple matter of choice. That is an oversimplified approach to the issue. There is just too much evidence that actual physical issues are at play. They include environmental issues, hormonal issues, and social issues. Being gay or homosexual is not a sin or wrong behavior on its own. If I were homosexual or gay I would choose to be celibate because of my belief in that teaching, but I would not go around apologizing or counting myself as sick because of my sexual preferences. I would simply practice celibacy.

Rapist should be locked up for life and the key thrown out. Serial killers, I feel should be executed, but am willing to accept locking them up forever and having the key thrown out. Mothers suffering from postpartum depression should receive mental health care and can be forgiven even for killing their child, if because of this depression they hear voices, think their child is a rat, or some other creature, see things etc. There are too many cases like this where it has been documented that the woman tried to get help and was ignored, only to land up killing herself and her child.

I am not in favor of dismissing all wrong behavior due to hormonal issues, or chemically induced rages, but I do think we are obligated to approach to make sure our response is one that will provide mental health care when warranted and prison when warranted. Whether we like it or not, there is not one of us who can’t “crack or flip” out of despair, anger, unexplained changes in the brain or sheer desperation and do something horrible, even kill or harm others. Those of us who have been allowed the fortitude to control our emotions should be grateful that we have had the kind of raising, teaching and learning to do so. Not all people are that fortunate and some will never care one way or the other.

Both are penal system and health care system in the country are a joke. We have a lot of improvement to make in these areas. As for homosexuality, I will judge no one on this, but I will always advise them, if asked, to choose celibacy.

 

[on_the_hill]

Sheesh, a whole lot to read in this thread, and I’m sure I missed some really important points.

Nonetheless, one of the things I’ve learned from CAF, at least my own interpretation of what I think I’ve learned, is that the source of homosexuality, whether it’s nature or nurture, genetic or learned, biological or psychological, is mostly irrelevant.

It doesn’t matter how a person came to identify him or herself as homosexual. What matters is how that person acts–specifically how that person chooses to act.

So no matter how many studies show one thing or another, even if there can be totally irrefutable evidence once and for all: our God-given free will determines how we act (absent mental illness, of course. If a tree tells you to step in front of a bus, you’re not acting of your free will).

 

[on_the_hill]

Some people do make the choice to take on that sexual orientation, but the vast majority probably do not.

Examples:
My wife’s relative says she chose to become a lesbian because of experiences in her life. In college she felt she had a more realistic chance of finding a female than a male to spend her life with. Several years later, she is still living that lifestyle.

My relative had an undeniable attraction to males from the age when others were drawn to females. He is in his 50s, has never had an attraction to women, and lives that lifestyle.

 

[Cricket2]

However, with regard to bipolar you are missing a key factor ( and I am highly familiar with these mental illness after having to deal for many years with a bipolar husband) while bipolar disease runs in some (some not all) families, there is a huge environmenal and external component in bipolar disease. So of the study is not separating the twins where bipolar is known to run in past generations from the ones where there is a presence of external then you cannot get an accirate result. That is why I mentioned chron’s in which they sepatated the twins in the ones with known external factors from the rest.

What this study tries to prove is that you are born gay and there ate mo external factors. What the figure shows is that there are external factors. Even in the bipolar study where there is a huge external factor imfluence the number is 70%, way above the gay study, so again proves the point that the study which is trying to deny external factors is playing around with numbers so people can come to the conclusion they want.

I mentioned bi-polar disorders due to the fact that my brother is bi-polar. Yes, there are certainly environmental, chemical and genetic components to this disorder. There has most recently been the suggestion that strep may contribute to this illness. (I can’t remember what program I saw this on…perhaps “The Doctors?”) Oddly enough my brother had terrible episodes of strep infection as a child, and when he was 5-6 years old nearly died from it. There was an outbreak that affected children’s kidneys with a death rate of 33% at the time. Those who survived often landed up on dialysis. He was bed-ridden for a year.

It is shocking how many things can effect the mind and its function, our abilities to reason and to make choices. The only other person to have bipolar disorder in our family is a cousin on my mothers side of the family. As an infant he suffered severe allergies to almost everything: horses, all grasses, mosses. house dust…you name it. He had allergy shots once a week until the age of 18. Maybe constant inflammatory conditions of the brain contribute to mental health issues more than we can surmise. Who knows.

All studies are imperfect, all studies have risk of bias and the manipulation of numbers. But with the passage of time the truth of what those studies reveal and don’t reveal does come out.

 

[marymary1975]

I mentioned bi-polar disorders due to the fact that my brother is bi-polar. Yes, there are certainly environmental, chemical and genetic components to this disorder. There has most recently been the suggestion that strep may contribute to this illness. (I can’t remember what program I saw this on…perhaps “The Doctors?”) Oddly enough my brother had terrible episodes of strep infection as a child, and when he was 5-6 years old nearly died from it. There was an outbreak that affected children’s kidneys with a death rate of 33% at the time. Those who survived often landed up on dialysis. He was bed-ridden for a year.

It is shocking how many things can effect the mind and its function, our abilities to reason and to make choices. The only other person to have bipolar disorder in our family is a cousin on my mothers side of the family. As an infant he suffered severe allergies to almost everything: horses, all grasses, mosses. house dust…you name it. He had allergy shots once a week until the age of 18. Maybe constant inflammatory conditions of the brain contribute to mental health issues more than we can surmise. Who knows.

All studies are imperfect, all studies have risk of bias and the manipulation of numbers. But with the passage of time the truth of what those studies reveal and don’t reveal does come out.

Yes, you are right about the strep because I was suggested that as one of the possible causes for my first husband (he is dead now) bipolar disease as none of his parents or siblings had any mental illness (and I was dealing with the question whether my daughter was at risk). My daughter so far shows no indication of bipolar, granted I have to wait more years before singing victory, but so far no one else in his close family imcluding children has had it so at least in his case it appears to be a high influence of external factors.

And I totally agree with your last paragraph.

 

[livingwordunity]

Today’s field of psychology is totally corrupted by politics. When the APA took homosexuality off of the list of psychological disorders it was purely for reasons of political pressure. So, whatever “study” they come up with is going to be politically driven to achieve the results wanted by leftist political lobbies.

 

[Abu]

This illustrates the irresponsibility of so much that passes for “science”, which wishes to ignore reality.

**Little Recognition Given To Study of Sexual Reorientation Therapy at APA Convention
Findings contradict the APA position that homosexuality is not changeable.
By Thaddeus M. Baklinski **
Extract:
TORONTO, August 10, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Dr. Stanton Jones and his research partner, Dr. Mark Yarhouse, were given the opportunity, on Sunday morning at 8:00 a.m., to present their findings on a study of sexual reorientation therapy, at the annual convention of the American Psychological Association (APA) in Toronto.

The paper titled, “Ex Gays? An Extended Longitudinal Study of Attempted Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation,” was presented as a part of an APA symposium titled Sexual Orientation and Faith Tradition Symposium.

The six year study concluded that there is evidence that homosexual tendencies can be controlled and redirected toward normal sexual attraction.

Drs. Jones and Yarhouse conclude that their findings contradict the APA position that homosexuality is not changeable.

“In conclusion, the findings of this study would appear to contradict the commonly expressed view of the mental health establishment that sexual orientation is not changeable and that the attempt to change is highly likely to produce harm for those who make such an attempt.”

The report also stressed the need to keep “a range of professional and ministry options open to clients who experience same sex attraction, are distressed by this because of their moral or religious beliefs, and who may benefit from hearing about a number of intervention modalities.”

 

[Rau]

Examples:
My wife’s relative says she chose to become a lesbian because of experiences in her life. In college she felt she had a more realistic chance of finding a female than a male to spend her life with. Several years later, she is still living that lifestyle.

I should think that feeling one is able to “choose” - such as in this example - must be a pretty clear indication of bisexuality. Such a person’s sexual orientation must be somewhat ‘central’ on the spectrum.