Study the Qur’an?

[MartinJordan]

We are in a Catholic forum Martin
In a Muslim forum I will use the Quran to show that we are in End Times.

.

This is a thread about the Studying the Qur’an right? So how do you know this term is it in the Quran? A orderly answer please

And after that let’s use the Quran explaining the Thief in the Night (you can state the verses because I don’t read it) how it is about the End Times that will come like a Thief in the Night exactly as it was explained by the person who spoke about it and who it relates to.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Baha’u’llah… is all about Islam…

XXXII: That which thou hast heard concerning…

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. The purpose of God, moreover, was to sacrifice him as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth. This same honor, Jesus, the Son of Mary, besought the one true God, exalted be His name and glory, to confer upon Him. For the same reason was Ḥusayn offered up as a sacrifice by Muḥammad, the Apostle of God.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-32.html****

So in the Qur’an. God says take your only son Ishmael?

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

There are doctrinal differences between faiths but our common humanity is what we should look to if we want world peace. All churches pray to the same God except they call Him by a different name or have a different concept of Him but in reality we all worship the same God.

Just like humanity is one race but with many different nationalities, races and traditions so too religions are basically worshipping the same God although differently.

We can have peace if we look away from personalities/traditions and see our common humanity.

The Pope does it so well. He looks past the differences and tries to point out the good and many times has praised other Faiths. This attitude will lead to peace.

As individuals Christ taught to love even our enemy but that does not mean not to defend ourselves against a vicious wolf who would attack the flock so terrorism must be defeated.

But we as individuals should love all humanity because there is God’s image in every soul. It doesn’t matter what religion or political party , or colour, or nationality anyone belongs to. All that really matters is that they are our fellow human beings all created by God.

This is an article I came across where a Muslim is praising Pope Francis. He understands the message of the Pope is brotherhood amongst all men and women. He says as a Muslim…

Let us for once try and step out of our cynicism, our inherited prejudices and our mistrust of others.

Let us refuse to be anything other than brothers to all men and sisters to all women.

huffingtonpost.com/khwaja-khusro-tariq/in-praise-of-pope-francis_b_8200944.html?ir=Australia

 

[MartinJordan]

Does the Pope talk about the Qur’an?

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

So in the Qur’an. God says take your only son Ishmael?

MJ

Yes it does but all religions have differing interpretations. However all agree that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. The Quran believes in God, Christ and the Holy Spirit but doesn’t put it as a trinity.

Buddhists too don’t mention God directly but Buddha speaks of an “Unborn an Uncreated” meaning God. The essence though is the same. One God, love everybody, don’t do evil and be as one family.

 

[worldcitizen]

Does the Pope talk about the Qur’an?

MJ

This is a good article from Reuters about what the Pope says about Islam and that it’s not a violent religion and that all Islam shouldn’t be judged by the terrorists. He’s a very wise man.

reuters.com/article/us-pope-turkey-mideast-idUSKCN0JE0AD20141130

 

[JimmyDFG]

Dear Jimmy,

Yes, Jesus was definitely crucified was my meaning and the Quran also agrees with that although it says it indirectly in that the reality of Christ was not crucified only His body.

Islam was the First Nation state to be established in that area so in that respect it was the best because it had laws and a constitution whereas previously the tribes were disunited and wanderers.

Islam was the correct religion with regards to the 360 idols which was the religion being practiced before Islam came. Muhammad came to that area to establish belief in one God amongst the idol worshippers.

Muhammad always praised those who acted justly and fairly especially the Christians. He praised the Christians and so did other Arabs. This is some of what He says about Christians…

"All of the Arab chiefs, all of the leading Muslims, and all the People of the Vocation, from around the world sent me letters expressing the fondness of Christians towards my cause,

They were different in their faithful devotion from the Jews, the Qurayshites, and the other polytheists. They demonstrated no desire for worldly gain…

The Christians, however, behaved in the very opposite way. They respected my alliance. They recognized my rights. They fulfilled the promises that they had made during our meeting. (Covenant of Muhammad with the Christians of Najran)

When Jesus was crucified on the cross do you believe that Jesus died for our sins?

quran98:5 and 3:110 also

2:128
Our Lord, and make us muslims to You and from our descendants a muslim nation to You.
And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the merciful.

2:132
And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], “O my sons, indeed Allah
has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims.”

This can be dangerous in the minds of some in one form or another.

 

[JimmyDFG]

Yes it does but all religions have differing interpretations. However all agree that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. The Quran believes in God, Christ and the Holy Spirit but doesn’t put it as a trinity.

Buddhists too don’t mention God directly but Buddha speaks of an “Unborn an Uncreated” meaning God. The essence though is the same. One God, love everybody, don’t do evil and be as one family.

2:135
They say, “Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided.” Say, “Rather, [we follow]
the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists.”

 

[MartinJordan]

Yes it does but all religions have differing interpretations. However all agree that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. The Quran believes in God, Christ and the Holy Spirit but doesn’t put it as a trinity.

Buddhists too don’t mention God directly but Buddha speaks of an “Unborn an Uncreated” meaning God. The essence though is the same. One God, love everybody, don’t do evil and be as one family.

Please provide the verse from the Qur’an when God instructs Abraham to take Ishmael to be taken up the mountain

What do Buddhists say about Abraham?

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

2:135
They say, “Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided.” Say, “Rather, [we follow]
the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists.”

Who is they?

MJ

 

[JimmyDFG]

Who is they?

MJ

I’m assuming the Jews and Christians

But also …

quran 2:130 And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous.

quran 1:131 When his Lord said to him, “Submit”, he said “I have submitted [in islam] to the Lord of the worlds.”

quran 1:133Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, “What will you worship after me?” They said, “We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.”

 

[JimmyDFG]

quran 4:171 “O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs”

This to me is denouncing the Christian faith. I see no truth in this verse or the quran for the matter. Study the quran simply because its a piece of literature? Or is there a hidden agenda

 

[MartinJordan]

I’m assuming the Jews and Christians

But also …

quran 2:130 And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous.

quran 1:131 When his Lord said to him, “Submit”, he said “I have submitted [in islam] to the Lord of the worlds.”

quran 1:133Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, “What will you worship after me?” They said, “We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.”

Jimmy, I don’t remember Jacob mentioning Ishmael.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

quran 4:171 “O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs”

This to me is denouncing the Christian faith. I see no truth in this verse or the quran for the matter. Study the quran simply because its a piece of literature? Or is there a hidden agenda

Strange why they don’t refer any specifics in scripture that is Mary taken as God?

MJ

 

[arte]

Hi Arte,

I’m very happy to talk with you.

All passages in the Quran were only for fighting against oppression never offensively so no Muslims today can use them to attack any country.

Persecution of the Muslims by the Meccans

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_by_the_Meccans

The Makkans responded to this new creed with rejection. He and his companions were bitterly persecuted in Makkah for the first 13 years of his mission.

islamcentre.info/#!prophet-muhammad/yyid8

The killings committed by the terrorists are politically motivated using religion as a cover for financial and human resources. Terrorism, I assure you, has nothing whatsoever to do with the Quran or Muhammad just like the Crusades had nothing to do with the Bible or Christ.

I will check out your above sites and come back to you. It is only political when it is Sunni on Sunni and Shia on Shia (can’t recall seeing this). All the rest is to do with the religion of Islam which by default includes Mohamed and the Quran plus any other Islamic scripture. There must be something in the many open violent verses of the Quran and Hadith/ Sunnah that is driving this massive religious inspired violence. Do lots of people including women and children blow themselves up for politics? As a human being, I would definitely commit violence to protect my country and its allies. Any violence in the name of Jesus is against the teaching of Jesus which includes the crusades and my violence above. While we are on this subject, the Muslim Empire was massive and stretched from Europe through N Africa, the ME to India. I just mention this because Muslims often blame western imperialism especially the British Empire for the current problems in the ME. From my experience in debating Muslims, they always want to blame someone else for their own failures

But unfortunately there is religious prejudice and what an opportune time to throw the baby out with the bath water for all those who’ve long hated Islam using the press!!

The western press has been handed an opportunity by the terrorists to condemn Islam, Muhammad and the Quran and Muslims and a license to defame, slander and publish as much hate as they want about Islam because the terrorists have given them that mandate. But to blame a whole religion and its Prophet and Holy Book because of a few evil terrorists is very unjust. Like saying all Americans are evil if there’s a mass school killing or the Constitution is evil because all those children were gunned down. We don’t blame the whole USA when a mass murder occurs but we blame all Islam and Muhamnad and the Quran when they commit a mass murder. See my point?? The disparity is due to prejudice. Do 1.6 billion Muslims agree?

With the exception of a few right wing tabloids, the western press only print the news as it happens. The right wing tabloids are cancelled out to a reasonable extent by left wing tabloids and left wing comments elsewhere. The better western newspapers such as the UK’s Daily Telegraph (centre right) can be relied upon. I do not trust the left wing UK Guardian newspaper for obvious reasons. The western TV channels including the BBC “dance around” Islam. You can watch the news and the words “terrorist”, “extremist” and “radical” are used but they try their very best not to use the word “Islam”. Btw, I never watch Fox News unless I want a laugh. There are many media outlets that will not criticise Mohamed or Islam because of fear of the real threat of Islamic violence. How many media outlets showed cartoons of Mohamed after the Charlie Hebdo massacre? Your words: “a few evil terrorists” show you have not taken on board the information backed up with evidence that I have sent you in previous posts. Please see my last para on page 21 Post# 313. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the World. If we take a conservative 20% from the many surveys/polls done on Muslims, **it becomes 200 million Islamic extremists in the World. ** There are about 44 million Muslims in Europe. Using the same approach gives us 8.8 million Islamic extremists in Europe. Therefore, your points above are not valid including blaming the prejudice of the western media for a disparity of reporting Islamic violence. What did I say about Muslims blaming someone else for their own failures?

CONT’D

 

[arte]

CONT’D

Karen Armstrong a former Catholic nun whichever way one views her is a brilliant writer and author and says about violence in Islam.

“Terrorism has nothing to do with Muhammad, any more than the Crusades had anything to do with Jesus.

Atheists are normally religiously neutral so are excellent at debating Islam. Please check out what the following atheists say about Mohamed and Islam: Douglas Murray, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens (dec’d). I went to a lecture given by a Catholic nun who had recently returned from living in an African Muslim country for several years. Her lecture was completely opposite to what Karen Armstrong stated above.

Mohamed had sex with a 9 year girl, raped wives and daughters of husbands and fathers that his army had killed, had multiple wives and sex slaves, had POWs including boys beheaded and had a poet killed because she criticised him. The holy book that Mohamed instigated, the Quran, and the holy books that records Mohamed’s sayings/actions, the Hadith/Sunnah, are full of violent verses that are extant – still open. Therefore, Islamic terrorism has everything to do with Mohamed because all Muslims REVERE the grossly immoral person I described above and “his” Islamic Holy Scripture** is full of open (not closed) violent verses **which can and are used by Islamic terrorists and their many millions of supporters.

Humanity is imperfect starting with me of course and if we look at them from the standpoint of their faults thern peace is impossible but if we look at and see the good in others which God sees then we can be in harmony.

If you include everything I have said about Muslims (followers of Islam) in previous replies plus what I could add to the list and throw in Muslims’ God given right to lie/deceive, you will see that it is not just about looking at the good in others. I sincerely wish it was that easy. Muslim leaders and/or their followers come to the peace table with this evil Islamic baggage firmly embedded in their minds. The Muslim/Israeli peace talks are a good example of the above process. **Who always fires first in the above conflict?
**

 

[worldcitizen]

quran 4:171 “O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs”

This to me is denouncing the Christian faith. I see no truth in this verse or the quran for the matter. Study the quran simply because its a piece of literature? Or is there a hidden agenda

In that quote Jesus is called The Messiah which is what He was but what Muhammad is saying is Jesus is sent from God not God Himself. You know 'God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?

Jesus confirms this when He says “My Father is greater than I” and “why thou callest me good there is none good but one God”? This is by heart but I don’t remember the verse number but if you look them up its accurate.

As to the holy ghost. Think of the Sun. The sun is God but rays although they emanate from the sun are not the sun. Christ emanated from God but was not Almighty God Himself
The Quran calling Jesus The Messiah is the purest acknowledgement of His Station and rank.

 

[worldcitizen]

Hi Jimmy.

Yes of course Christ died for our sins.

Muhammad established the first city state in that are with laws and a constitution and at that time it was the most advanced and ordered society in existence so those who chose not to be part of it the Quran says they’ve missed out on progress and a better way of organising their society.

About Christians. There were wonderful Chrustians and not so wonderful ones but that’s in every society. Muhammad brought an ‘expanded’ moral code of ethics. No drinking, no gambling , no illicit sex before marriage, no lying. Not to break ones promise and the previous faiths did not have some of these laws. I don’t think the Bible specifically forbids alcohol and some other laws but the Quran brought a whole new moral system as well as administration so it was step up at that time.

 

[Techno2000]

Hi Jimmy.

Yes of course Christ died for our sins.

Muhammad established the first city state in that are with laws and a constitution and at that time it was the most advanced and ordered society in existence so those who chose not to be part of it the Quran says they’ve missed out on progress and a better way of organising their society.

About Christians. There were wonderful Chrustians and not so wonderful ones but that’s in every society. Muhammad brought an ‘expanded’ moral code of ethics. No drinking, no gambling , no illicit sex before marriage, no lying. Not to break ones promise and the previous faiths did not have some of these laws. I don’t think the Bible specifically forbids alcohol and some other laws but the Quran brought a whole new moral system as well as administration so it was step up at that time.

But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14

 

[worldcitizen]

Hi Techno,

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.(Mat 4:9)

Whatever you believe we need peacemakers in this world. The more of them the better.