F
Faithdancer
Guest
The Qur’an is a book of lies, written by a false prophet. Why bother reading it?
- Status
S
Servant19
Guest
A
arthra
Guest
As I recall this thread began last April and was simply focused on one issue… Should people study the Qur’an?.. Learning Arabic would seem to be an important element here so we can understand the levels of meaning…just as you would learn Hebrew to read Torah.
Now there are clearly those who have some interests (myself included) in how to interpret the Qur’an and that seems to be where this discussion has led. Regardless of your point of view there’s a lot to learn.
I would recommend a book “The Crucifixion and the Qur’an” by Todd Lawson… this issue of the crucifixion of Jesus in the Qur’an has been around awhile.
I would urge studying the Qur’an and learning more about the various perspectives we’ve been sharing!
Now there are clearly those who have some interests (myself included) in how to interpret the Qur’an and that seems to be where this discussion has led. Regardless of your point of view there’s a lot to learn.
I would recommend a book “The Crucifixion and the Qur’an” by Todd Lawson… this issue of the crucifixion of Jesus in the Qur’an has been around awhile.
I would urge studying the Qur’an and learning more about the various perspectives we’ve been sharing!
T
Thorolfr
Guest
Even if one doesn’t believe that the Qur’an is revelation inspired by God, it is still an amazing piece of world literature, and the text in its original Arabic is quite poetic. Following your line of reasoning, one might ask why it’s worth reading Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey. We read them because they’re great literature.The Qur’an is a book of lies, written by a false prophet. Why bother reading it?
T
TheAtheist
Guest
allow me to be the secular echo of Thoroflr’s statement.
From a purely academic perspective, the Koran is probably the most seminal work of Classical Arabic literature. In the same way that allusions and references to your Bible filter into philosophy, art, politics, etc in ways I can’t imagine (not being European and not having any connection to Christianity whatsoever), the same can be said for the Koran.
Poetry, Literature, Art, etc. etc… have been inspired by that book.
But, i’ll advance this one step further.
About 23% of the people living on this Planet (1.6 billion), have some sort of connection to that book - by whatever means they interpret their relationship to it and derive values from it.
23% of the World’s Population…
I’m not saying you need to agree with it (heck i don’t agree with any of your holy books), but I think it would be a wise decision to figure out the minimal baseline of…well…what 23% of the World’s Population happens to hold dear to its heart in varying degrees.
J
JimmyDFG
Guest
Jesus in the quran and/or in “The Crucifixion and the Qur’an”. The same Jesus being part of the Holy Trinity?As I recall this thread began last April and was simply focused on one issue… Should people study the Qur’an?.. Learning Arabic would seem to be an important element here so we can understand the levels of meaning…just as you would learn Hebrew to read Torah.
Now there are clearly those who have some interests (myself included) in how to interpret the Qur’an and that seems to be where this discussion has led. Regardless of your point of view there’s a lot to learn.
I would recommend a book “The Crucifixion and the Qur’an” by Todd Lawson… this issue of the crucifixion of Jesus in the Qur’an has been around awhile.
I would urge studying the Qur’an and learning more about the various perspectives we’ve been sharing!
T
Thorolfr
Guest
T
TonyBS
Guest
Yes this is a good point and indicates that the Koran is worthy of Understanding.
Regards Tony
T
TheAtheist
Guest
Not to be labor a point, but there are also Muslims (Ummah.org anyone) who kind of echo Faithdancer’s position. Not so much in the sense of the Bible or the Torah being the work of a false prophet, but rather unworthy of study because it is an “incomplete truth…”
The position seems just as impractical to me since Christian ~33% of the world’s population.
So we can either just sit around and not read each other’s books and castigate each other in the depths of ignorance…
…or we can attempt to at the very minimum learn about each other.
A
arte
Guest
God raised Jesus
The verses in the Bible where it is stated that God raised Jesus are in The Acts of the Apostles and Paul’s letters. I could claim that The Acts of the Apostles is not a Gospel but it is widely accepted that it is the continuation of The Gospel of Luke and sometimes referred to as Luke-Acts. There are more “God raised Jesus” in Acts and Paul’s letters than shown here.
**Acts 2:24 **But God raised him up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power.
Acts 3:15 You killed the Originator of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this fact we are witnesses!
**Acts 4:10 **let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, this man stands before you healthy
Ephesians 1:19-20 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20Which he performed in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
The Holy Spirit raised Jesus
Romans 8:11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you.
**The Holy Spirit and Jesus combined raised the body of Jesus **
Romans 1:4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.
***Interesting that this verse calls Jesus the Son of God.
**Jesus raises Himself **
John 2:19 “Destroy this temple,” He said, referring to His body, “and in three days I will raise it up”
**John 10:17-18 **“This is why the Father loves me – because I lay down my life, so that I may take it back again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
In John 10:18, Jesus has been given the authority (commandment) from His father to die and to raise Himself up. From the above, the raising of Jesus from the dead was not the operation of one person within the Trinity but was a cooperative operation done by all 3 persons of the Trinity; God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Mohamed was never referred to as the Son of God, he was not raised up from the dead by God, nor given the authority to raise himself up from the dead by God and he never said he would raise himself up from the dead.
A
arte
Guest
Quran 4:157Your translation of that verse, especially the bolded bit is not 100% accurate.
The word [another] is throwing you off.
The word “resemblance” is more accurate but still not 100%.
“MADE TO APPEAR” is a better translation and in Baha’i theology we are “spiritual beings made to appear in a physical garb”
Hope that helps
.
Sahih International
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Sahih (صَحِيْح) is an Arabic word that means genuine/authentic/sound. Therefore, the translation of the verse Quran 4:157 is 100% accurate. The verse is taken from the Noble Qur’an website.
quran.com/4/157
A
arte
Guest
I have never heard of the Anglo Catholic Church before and had to look it up. “You learn something new everyday”.The Qur’an is a book of lies, written by a false prophet. Why bother reading it?
I regularly debate Muslims and it is getting to the stage where I need to read and understand what drives them. Having a Quran, Hadith and Sunnah to hand will also be useful. Having said this, I debate the affects of Islam so most of my study is in that area. I fully understand what you have said in your post.
S
Servant19
Guest
The word “another” is in brackets because it’s not there. None of the other translations have that word in brackets.
It’s an additional word entered to aid interpretation. It is the wrong interpretation.
My wife is an Arab. She is fluent in Arabic and has read the Quran in Arabic.
She looked me in the eyes and told me the word “another” is not there…
.
A
arte
Guest
I will repeat what I have just posted to Faithdancer so you will see my motivation for reading the Quran. I regularly debate Muslims and it is getting to the stage where I need to read and understand what drives them. Having a Quran, Hadith and Sunnah to hand will also be useful. Having said this, I debate the affects of Islam so most of my study is in that area.As I recall this thread began last April and was simply focused on one issue… Should people study the Qur’an?.. Learning Arabic would seem to be an important element here so we can understand the levels of meaning…just as you would learn Hebrew to read Torah.
Now there are clearly those who have some interests (myself included) in how to interpret the Qur’an and that seems to be where this discussion has led. Regardless of your point of view there’s a lot to learn.
I would recommend a book “The Crucifixion and the Qur’an” by Todd Lawson… this issue of the crucifixion of Jesus in the Qur’an has been around awhile.
I would urge studying the Qur’an and learning more about the various perspectives we’ve been sharing!
J
JimmyDFG
Guest
If the word “another” is not there. Can you please explain what is meant by " And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but was made to resemble him to them."
A
arte
Guest
T
TonyBS
Guest
That has already been answers above and a good reason to Study the Koran.
Regards Tony
S
Servant19
Guest
This is all related to the Quranic statement:
"The life of the world is nothing but the enjoyment of delusion." (Surat al-Hadid, 20)
What you see on earth, the life, the death, the joys and the tests, are all a delusion. It is made “to appear” that we are alive on earth. True reality becomes relevant in heaven. When we enter heaven, we would realise that this life on earth was just a mirage.
I can’t remember which Hadith I read this in but the Prophet Muhammad stated that when we die we will feel like we have woken up and this earthly life was just a dream…
.
J
JimmyDFG
Guest
A fictional spin on the Holy Bible
S
Servant19
Guest
I actually heard a Jew say that about the New Testament this week!!
Lol
How mistakes keep repeating themselves
.
- Status