Submission Sabotage

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MamaCarnie

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In the last few weeks I have been trying really hard to figure out exactly how I can be the best wife and mother to my family. While I’ve always heard about submission, I’ve never tried to apply it to my life. We have some new friends who are also trying to apply men’s/women’s roles to their marriage. My husband grew up with a single mom, and frankly hates the idea of submission. So to prove his point he is completely failing to be loving in any way, shape, or form. He has demanded that the only way he will feel loved is to keep the house spotless at all times. I’ve been fairly succesful, except for when I had a meeting last week, and we got home at the same time. I hadn’t had a chance to do a full clean, because I was gone all day, so he got mad, and his punishment of choice is swearing, which he knows I hate. I’ve also discovered the book Dressing with Dignity, and while I don’t agree with everything the author says, and am not about to throw away my pants, but I have been discerning how I can dress with dignity and femininity. He thinks it is stupid and has forbidden me from wearing skirts/dresses, again, to make a point.
He is completely refusing to live his side of the relationship, and not being loving at all, because he says that if I am the wife that God has called me to be that it will change his heart, if what the bible says is true.
I don’t know what to do. I feel like he is completely sabotaging any attempts that I make to be holy. It’s almost like if I fail, then he has the right to be angry at me, and blame me for anything that goes wrong in his life.
 
Hi,
I am actually trying to do this without my husband being involved. He isnt a believer so he does not go to church etc. etc. Anyway, I have simply changed my behavior and his behavior has changed as well. It might be better that he is not involved because then he cant say HAHA you messed up. He doesnt know when I mess up. Phew.

I took a sunday school class titled Love and Respect by Emmerrit ? He is an evangelical minister. Anyway, He was fantastic. He taught me how to bew more respectful to my husband and likewise how a man can be more loving to his wife. I highly suggest you both(if he is willing) to get the video series. It is not only hysterical to watch it is life changing.😃 If he is not interested I suggest you watch it by yourself. I did and it is changing my married life.😃 If you would like to talk more please PM me.
 
The only reason he knows is because of these new friend couples of ours, who are also doing it. It seems to be regular conversation between both the wives and the husbands.
 
MamaCarnie said:
In the last few weeks I have been trying really hard to figure out exactly how I can be the best wife and mother to my family. While I’ve always heard about submission, I’ve never tried to apply it to my life. We have some new friends who are also trying to apply men’s/women’s roles to their marriage. My husband grew up with a single mom, and frankly hates the idea of submission. So to prove his point he is completely failing to be loving in any way, shape, or form. He has demanded that the only way he will feel loved is to keep the house spotless at all times. I’ve been fairly succesful, except for when I had a meeting last week, and we got home at the same time. I hadn’t had a chance to do a full clean, because I was gone all day, so he got mad, and his punishment of choice is swearing, which he knows I hate. I’ve also discovered the book Dressing with Dignity, and while I don’t agree with everything the author says, and am not about to throw away my pants, but I have been discerning how I can dress with dignity and femininity. He thinks it is stupid and has forbidden me from wearing skirts/dresses, again, to make a point.
He is completely refusing to live his side of the relationship, and not being loving at all, because he says that if I am the wife that God has called me to be that it will change his heart, if what the bible says is true.
I don’t know what to do. I feel like he is completely sabotaging any attempts that I make to be holy. It’s almost like if I fail, then he has the right to be angry at me, and blame me for anything that goes wrong in his life.
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Sounds like you might be playing control games with each other.
 
MamaCarnie said:
In the last few weeks I have been trying really hard to figure out exactly how I can be the best wife and mother to my family. While I’ve always heard about submission, I’ve never tried to apply it to my life. We have some new friends who are also trying to apply men’s/women’s roles to their marriage. My husband grew up with a single mom, and frankly hates the idea of submission. So to prove his point he is completely failing to be loving in any way, shape, or form. He has demanded that the only way he will feel loved is to keep the house spotless at all times. I’ve been fairly succesful, except for when I had a meeting last week, and we got home at the same time. I hadn’t had a chance to do a full clean, because I was gone all day, so he got mad, and his punishment of choice is swearing, which he knows I hate. I’ve also discovered the book Dressing with Dignity, and while I don’t agree with everything the author says, and am not about to throw away my pants, but I have been discerning how I can dress with dignity and femininity. He thinks it is stupid and has forbidden me from wearing skirts/dresses, again, to make a point.
He is completely refusing to live his side of the relationship, and not being loving at all, because he says that if I am the wife that God has called me to be that it will change his heart, if what the bible says is true.
I don’t know what to do. I feel like he is completely sabotaging any attempts that I make to be holy. It’s almost like if I fail, then he has the right to be angry at me, and blame me for anything that goes wrong in his life.
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How was he before and how was your relationship before you tired this?
 
Karin said:
How was he before and how was your relationship before you tired this?
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He was withdrawn and hurt by my actions most of the time. He had taken to spending as much time away from me as physically possible.
 
MamaCarnie said:
He was withdrawn and hurt by my actions most of the time. He had taken to spending as much time away from me as physically possible.
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If that was the case before you started with the submission, then it seems to indicate problems with the relationship in general. Rather than try and force him into a new lifestyle, perhaps you should try and address what the problems were to start with. Could you get him to attend a Retrouvaille weekend?
 
I was anything but a submissive wife. I didn’t respect him, and thought that by trying to change him he would change.

Yes, we have had a bad relationship since the beginning, and have been working through it.

Retrouvaille is not possible. I’ve looked into it, but the nearest one is at least 6 hours away from us.

We’ve seen a counselor, and have been working through most of the issues between us. Right now this is an issue between my husband and his problem with the word “submission”, which he thinks is total dominance of man over woman. So he is trying to prove to me that he is correct.
 
How about you change how you relate to him…instead of trying to change him…
 
MamaCarnie said:
I was anything but a submissive wife. I didn’t respect him, and thought that by trying to change him he would change.

Yes, we have had a bad relationship since the beginning, and have been working through it.

Retrouvaille is not possible. I’ve looked into it, but the nearest one is at least 6 hours away from us.

We’ve seen a counselor, and have been working through most of the issues between us. Right now this is an issue between my husband and his problem with the word “submission”, which he thinks is total dominance of man over woman. So he is trying to prove to me that he is correct.
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Hi,
Is your counselor a christian one? If so they need to set your husband straight by pointing out what the bible says about submission. If not you need to get him to your priest and have him explain it.
 
ACK! What do you think this is about!? I already have admitted what I was doing wrong, and have stated that I’m trying to change for the better. I’m trying to respect him and be submissive. I have three kids five and under at home, and have kept my house SPOTLESS for three weeks, because he said that’s what he needs to feel loved. I have been praying for him like MAD. (He went to a men’s breakfast at 7am on Saturday, and I stayed up and prayed for him the whole time, because I knew it was hard for him to be up so early on a Saturday). Because of one stupid book that he doesn’t agree with he is now going out of his way to be as difficult as possible, because he’s trying to prove the point submissiveness is wrong and that he doesn’t agree with any of it. He has admitted to me many times that he doesn’t WANT to be head of the household. I have TRIED changing, and am continuing to try. I was just wondering what to do about being submissive when he is trying so hard to make it as difficult as possible for me to succeed. He knows it’s hard for me to just do what I’m told, and when he tells me I’m no longer allowed to wear skirts, even to mass, it’s hard for me to know how to proceed, especially when the only reason he gives me is “because I said so.”
 
I’m not sure I understand… are you saying that your husband is trying to make the whole idea of submission ridiculous by setting the bar ridiculously high, so you’ll stop trying?

If that’s the case, then I would drop the subject. Just say, “You know, I just don’t know… I want us to be happy, but not if it’s something that upsets you and causes more problems. Can we just forget that submissive business?”

Then, drop it. Don’t mention it. You don’t have to really “submit” to anything. Work instead on being a good wife in other ways. Men want to feel appreciated and love. Work on appreciating and loving him, and express it in ways that feel more natural to you.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,
Is your counselor a christian one? If so they need to set your husband straight by pointing out what the bible says about submission. If not you need to get him to your priest and have him explain it.
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Yes, he is a devout Catholic. We haven’t seen him since this issue came up. However, it has been explained to him by other good Catholic men and women, but he just can’t wrap his mind around what it actually means.
 
MamaCarnie said:
ACK! What do you think this is about!? I already have admitted what I was doing wrong, and have stated that I’m trying to change for the better. I’m trying to respect him and be submissive. I have three kids five and under at home, and have kept my house SPOTLESS for three weeks, because he said that’s what he needs to feel loved. I have been praying for him like MAD. (He went to a men’s breakfast at 7am on Saturday, and I stayed up and prayed for him the whole time, because I knew it was hard for him to be up so early on a Saturday). Because of one stupid book that he doesn’t agree with he is now going out of his way to be as difficult as possible, because he’s trying to prove the point submissiveness is wrong and that he doesn’t agree with any of it. He has admitted to me many times that he doesn’t WANT to be head of the household. I have TRIED changing, and am continuing to try. I was just wondering what to do about being submissive when he is trying so hard to make it as difficult as possible for me to succeed. He knows it’s hard for me to just do what I’m told, and when he tells me I’m no longer allowed to wear skirts, even to mass, it’s hard for me to know how to proceed, especially when the only reason he gives me is “because I said so.”
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Why does he not want to be the head of the household?
Also being submissive is not about keeping the house “spotless”…
 
katybird said:
I’m not sure I understand… are you saying that your husband is trying to make the whole idea of submission ridiculous by setting the bar ridiculously high, so you’ll stop trying?

If that’s the case, then I would drop the subject. Just say, “You know, I just don’t know… I want us to be happy, but not if it’s something that upsets you and causes more problems. Can we just forget that submissive business?”

Then, drop it. Don’t mention it. You don’t have to really “submit” to anything. Work instead on being a good wife in other ways. Men want to feel appreciated and love. Work on appreciating and loving him, and express it in ways that feel more natural to you.
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I have to second this suggestion…
 
My husband can be a bit similar - he would rather I was in charge of many things, I think. If I try to behave in a “traditional wife” way, he sometimes notices and calls me on it. He doesn’t like it. The thing to do, I think, is not to call attention to what you’re doing. Do it for yourself, not for him.

Wear a skirt to Mass. When he says something, say, “I agree - the submission thing doesn’t work. I’m just going to dress for myself, from now on.” If he doesn’t like it, that’s because he’s got major control issues and you don’t have to worry about that. Ignore him.

There are other ways to show you love him than jumping through his hoops.

What book did you read that he doesn’t like?
 
Okay. That’s what I was doing, before this whole “submission” (which I hate the term, anyway) thing came up, and it was working. I just struggle so much with being respectful, and am really wanting to change. I just didn’t know how to do it.
 
What book did you read that he doesn’t like?

Well first I read How to Change Your Husband, and hated a lot of it. However, it was what made me realize how much damage I’ve been causing in our marriage, in being so rude to him and trying to change him.

I also read Dressing with Dignity. It made me realize that I should be dressing femininely, but not necessarily not ever wearing pants. I’ve just been praying about it.

I think he’s afraid I’m going to become a radical, and is very afraid to let me make any decision that might lead me to this. He says “I’m just as afraid of ultraconservatism, as I am of liberalism.”
 
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