Such a thing as Non denominational?????

[La_Chiara]

boppysbud:

Frankly it disturbs me deeply to hear Evangelical Fundamentalists refer to their schools, bookstores, media outlets etc, as Christian only when they are not the only Christians. There are plenty of other Christians who were in existence for centuries before the “nondenominations” were thought of.

Drives me crazy too. And when an evangelical/fundamentalist/non-denominational calls himself “Christian” and makes it very clear that he doesn’t consider Catholics to be Christian. GRRRR.

 

[carol_marie]

I think non denom chuches attract disgruntled members from other faiths. Unforturnatly disgruntled people tend to stay that way, finding fault in wherever they go so although the churches draw people in, they can’t make 'em stay. Also, why is it that they want to distance themselves so far from mainline churches anyhow? I asked a non denom friend how often they celebrate communion. She said, “once a quarter” When I asked her why so infrequently she said, “Oh we don’t want to copy the Catholics…” Oh really, then you better pitch those Bibles & take down that cross you big copycats!

 

[netmender]

“non-denominational” is also a word that the “Church of Christ”
churches use to refer to themselves, as opposed to “the denominations” (every other group, in their lingo). They are congregational in nature, in other words recognising no organizational structure above the local congregation, but the churches have very similar doctrines.

 

[ruzz]

ONLYONECHRIST:

Non-D means they don’t want to affilated with any sort of religous name. All they want to be known as is followers of Christ. Most of them if not all of them teach stricly from the bible and bring a new exicting way of rejoicing for the Lord. They are a lot more layed back and non-traditional, accepting anyone who is willing to listen to the word of God.

Exactly!

They are Independent and don’t answer to any other national/regional organization. They teach from the bible.

It it’s a “group”, like a bible study, it means they don’t focus on individual doctrine, but on common truths, like Jesus is Savior and don’t get into stuff like infant baptism.

.

 

[AZTeri]

Can I answer as a newbie… and an non-denominational protestant who wants unity in Christ above all the squabbling?

I attend a non denominational church. That said, let me explain our church. It is made up of a wide variety of people, including some who were raised in the Catholic church and while they attend our church, they also consider themselves Catholics still, and I venture to say that some of them attend Mass as well as our church. It wouldn’t surprise me at all, but since I don’t know everyone at our church (over 2500 attendees) I can’t say that with certainty. We have on our pastoral staff nearly every theological belief. I really like it, because to me, that’s exactly what heaven is going to be like… won’t we all be surprised to find someone up there who didn’t quite “get it” like we, in our all encompassing knowledge, did?

Oh, by the way, in reference to communion, yes, we to take communion every Sunday. No, I’m not fully convinced to view it the same way as Catholics do, but I’m certainly not going to condemn you for your beliefs. Who knows? Maybe God will lead me in that direction, I’m certainly not going to close the door.

 

[Genesis315]

AZTeri:

We have on our pastoral staff nearly every theological belief. I really like it, because to me, that’s exactly what heaven is going to be like

First off welcome! Here’s the problem with that: God wants us to know the fullness of His Truth. He doesn’t want us to believe falshood. He does not want us to be deceived. Likewise, God’s Truth cannot contradict itself. Saying different theological beliefs are true is relativism. There is only one eternal Truth. Some of your pastoral staff are by default inadvertantly teaching falsehood. God does not desire this of us. We Catholics believe the Church has taught that one eternal, unchanging Truth for 2000 years.

an non-denominational protestant who wants unity in Christ above all the squabbling?

No, I’m not fully convinced to view it the same way as Catholics do, but I’m certainly not going to condemn you for your beliefs. Who knows? Maybe God will lead me in that direction, I’m certainly not going to close the door

The Catholic Church was the unity you seek for the first 1500 years until Luther broke off. Sola Scriptura has led to further breaking down of protestantism into so many denominations (non-denom included). I hope God does lead you home!

 

[Zooey]

Interesting thread…
There are several ways to be “non-denominational”. One is to just call yourself that! Calvary Chapel comes to mind; they say they are ND, but they are for all intents & purposes a denomination unto themselves, although they are (arguably)not part of a larger “denomination”.
Then you have(usually small) churches that are spin-offs of denominations. Around me, these are currently beginning to call themselves “independent Baptists”.They are usually very much in the fundamental camp.
And then you have the occasional church that decides to break off from its denomination. This can be for doctrinal reasons, but it seems to me to be more of a church wanting to opt out of the denomination it came from for organizational reasons. We have a local church right now that is attempting to remove itself from the UMC.(I say trying, because they don’t own the church, the UMC does–something that I could have told them!!).I am not following the reasons; I will say that IMHO, John & Charles Wesley were OCD to the max, & none of us has ever really gotten beyond their endless need to organize everything. (One of my pastor’s favorite jokes is: “What do you do when the toilet overflows in the Methodist Church? You run out as fast as you can and form a committee to discuss the options for toilet repair…”)

Actually, we’re not* that* bad…OK, I’m lying!

 

[vegas_catholic]

My Mother-in-Law belongs to a Christian Non denominational church. She is always trying to get me to go, saying “it’s non-deniminational, everyone is welcome, including Catholics.” However, their beliefs are Fundamental Christian beliefs. The other day she told me that her pastor said “Those who don’t believe in the rapture, would not be raptured.” I told her it was my understanding that Evangelical Christians believed that anyone who believes in Jesus Christ would be raptured. She told me that I was wrong.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

BOANERGES21:

Curious what everyones thoughts are about this. Is there really such a thing as non denominational? Non denominational bible studies? Non demoninational churches? Maybe some of you belong to such a church. I always figure that such a church would have some aggregate belief within therefore actually making it a denominational church? Just some deep thought I had about it recently Your (name removed by moderator)ut & help on it???

Thanks

I was born and raised in the (Roman) Catholic faith. I met my first ‘Christian’ in 1975 while serving in the Navy. When I asked him what kind of Christian he was, Methodist, Baptist, etc., I was quickly corrected in that he was a “non-denominational” Christian, i.e. neither Protestant nor Catholic. I’ve met dozens of non-denominational ‘Christians’ since then. They appear to all adhere to the *Sola Scriptura, *Catholic criticizing Protestant line to me. The Church of Christ is one such nebulous Christian/Protestant sect.

Every Saturday at Boston Common several ‘non-denominational’ Christian groups appear (as well as main-line Protestant sects), particularly the students of Gordon College, a non-denominational Christian College up in northern Massachusetts. Again, the theological debates I’ve engaged with these, so-called, non-denominational Christians have all been identical to debating against Protestants. So as far as I am concerned, these non-denominational Christians are just lost Protestants.

 

[AZTeri]

Genesis…

One of the primary things about our church that I appreciate is that when it comes to what we consider the basics, we do all agree. I realize that some Catholics here might not priortize them the same way, and that you put more emphasis on some areas, but there are areas that we do agree, correct? For example, we both agree in the Virgin Birth, the Diety of Christ, his death, burial and ressurection, that it is by grace, through faith, proven by works (ok, so we may not exactly agree on that one, but I have read enough threads to understand that that is what I do have in common with a lot of the posters here) that we become children of God. I know catholics add baptism and communion (the Eucharist?) as requirements also, but I’m not going to argue those points. I have been baptized, and do celebrate communion, even if it’s not done exactly the same as my catholic brothers.

Just a question, and not to cause an argument, but if this is true:

“We Catholics believe the Church has taught that one eternal, unchanging Truth for 2000 years.”

then why, just like the protestants, has the Church undergone so many changes (Vatican I and Vatican II come to mind) in the past 2000 years, and why is it constantly changing even now? I may be showing my ignorance; I’m just beginning my research into this fascinating history. What is the reason for all the additions to the Bible? What is wrong with, as catholics put is, sola scriptura, if what was written and handed down when the Canon was accepted hasn’t changed?

Perhaps this should be on another thread, if so, I apologize! I hope you understand the tone this is written in, truly searching, not wishing to be condemned nor to condemn, but to understand.

 

[Genesis315]

AZTeri,

Well, we agree on the really big basics so that’s good of course. However one of the huge basics is the Eucharist. I mean, the Mass is the highest form of our worship. It’s one of the central mysteries of our Faith, Jesus is really present. That’s huge. Plus, we don’t want to do things the displease God greatly. We believe using contraception, for example, is a grave sin. That’s a big deal. Stuff like that are important.

Just a question, and not to cause an argument, but if this is true:

“We Catholics believe the Church has taught that one eternal, unchanging Truth for 2000 years.”

then why, just like the protestants, has the Church undergone so many changes (Vatican I and Vatican II come to mind) in the past 2000 years, and why is it constantly changing even now? I may be showing my ignorance; I’m just beginning my research into this fascinating history.

Haha, this threads are for discussion! Ask away! The Church has never changed what is in what’s called the deposit of faith and morals. Tradition with a big T has not changed; it has been true always and everywhere (the Bible is the Word of God, the Trinity, Purgatory, transubstantiation, salvation by grace through faith and works, the necessity of confession, as well as morality–contraception is the most obvious. Do you ever wonder why the Catholics are the only Church not to change their stance on this even though every protestant church has changed their position on it since the 1930s?). Traditions with a little t can change since they are more about practice and not Truth(ie the language of the Mass, no meat on Friday, etc; these are just practices that depending on the culture, may or may not be helpful). Those councils may have defined things more clearly, but they did not change anything. Here’s an example: in one of the councils in the 4th century (Nicea I believe) Christ’s divinity was defined. Did that mean that it wasn’t always believed and taught that Christ was divine? Of course not, but clarification was needed since some people were starting to think otherwise. Nothing has changed and nothing will.

 

[Genesis315]

I’m just beginning my research into this fascinating history. What is the reason for all the additions to the Bible? What is wrong with, as catholics put is, sola scriptura, if what was written and handed down when the Canon was accepted hasn’t changed?

As they say, to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant (as in non-Catholic)

Well, the Church decided what would be in the Bible in the council I mentioned above. Luther then removed books. Remember, no where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole rule of faith. In fact, Paul calls the Church the pillar and foundation of truth. Technically, Tradition came first and Scripture was judged in light of it to see whether it was inspired and accurate. Scripture and oral Tradition compliment each other. They never contradict each other. T

The problem with sola sriptura is when different people read the Bible, they interpret things differently. Who is right? We believe the Church has the authority to interpret the Bible correctly. The Church interprets it in light of Tradition (which has been passed down through the unbroken chain of apostolic succession). We also believe the Church is protected by the Holy Spirit and cannot teach error becaus when Jesus founded the Church he promised the gates of Hell would not prevail (Matt 16:18).

There are some really great tracts on this site. I highly recommend this one:
catholic.com/library/Pillar.asp
Check out the others under the library section on the left side of the main page!

Perhaps this should be on another thread, if so, I apologize! I hope you understand the tone this is written in, truly searching, not wishing to be condemned nor to condemn, but to understand.

Honest seekers are always welcome!!!

 

[Contarini]

Kevin Walker:

I was born and raised in the (Roman) Catholic faith. I met my first ‘Christian’ in 1975 while serving in the Navy. When I asked him what kind of Christian he was, Methodist, Baptist, etc., I was quickly corrected in that he was a “non-denominational” Christian, i.e. neither Protestant nor Catholic. I’ve met dozens of non-denominational ‘Christians’ since then. They appear to all adhere to the *Sola Scriptura, *Catholic criticizing Protestant line to me. The Church of Christ is one such nebulous Christian/Protestant sect.

Every Saturday at Boston Common several ‘non-denominational’ Christian groups appear (as well as main-line Protestant sects), particularly the students of Gordon College, a non-denominational Christian College up in northern Massachusetts. Again, the theological debates I’ve engaged with these, so-called, non-denominational Christians have all been identical to debating against Protestants. So as far as I am concerned, these non-denominational Christians are just lost Protestants.

Of course nondenoms are Protestants. That’s not in dispute. And while Gordon College is nondenomination in the sense that it’s not dominated by a single denomination, that doesn’t mean the individual faculty and students are nondenominational. I believe Gordon is a mixture of Baptist and Presbyterian, and I’ve met at least one Episcopalian who taught there. (Gordon-Conwell, the accompanying seminary, is where Scott Hahn went.)

Edwin

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Contarini:

Of course nondenoms are Protestants. That’s not in dispute. And while Gordon College is nondenomination in the sense that it’s not dominated by a single denomination, that doesn’t mean the individual faculty and students are nondenominational. I believe Gordon is a mixture of Baptist and Presbyterian, and I’ve met at least one Episcopalian who taught there. (Gordon-Conwell, the accompanying seminary, is where Scott Hahn went.)

Edwin

Hi Edwin,

I have spoken with students from Gordon College on the Boston Common over the past five years, and Presbyterian was one protestant sect which wasn’t mentioned. But each student has asserted after I tried to pin it down that Gordon College is a non-denominational Christian college. Yet they do have various Protestant types teaching there and lecturing there as the students talk about an interesting lecuture given by a Methodist or a workshop presented by an Anglican etc.

Also on the Boston Common preaching on any given Saturday you will find Feng Shui, Scientology, Episcopaleans, Communist subversives, and some Menonites (sp?) from New Hampshire, sometimes all at once! But no Catholics? I had asked the Franciscan Friars, OFM, from St. Anthony Shrine to make an appearance on the Common to show off the one true faith, but so far no luck.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Just an FMI (for my information),

Is this Gordon college supposed to be a specific denomination of Protestant? From what I see here it is, but there are people teaching who believe in 100 different interpretations. This is crazy. If I am reading this right, how can you teach someone about Christ and not confuse them?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I just got back from here:

gordon.edu/faith/statement.htm

Its nice to see that the Bible is placed on the list before God.
Other than that I cant really find any specific details on what denomination they are.

 

[Genesis315]

Catholic Dude:

I just got back from here:

gordon.edu/faith/statement.htm

Its nice to see that the Bible is placed on the list before God.
Other than that I cant really find any specific details on what denomination they are.

Hmmmm, putting material things before God is a violation of the 1st Commandment. They worship the Bible. They worship pieces of paper with ink on them!!!

Just wanted to see what it felt like to be like an anti-Catholic (or anti-anti-Catholic in this case)

 

[Pug]

Catholic Dude:

I just got back from here:

gordon.edu/faith/statement.htm

I find it interesting that they say:

At the end of the age, the bodies of the dead shall be raised. The righteous shall enter into full possession of eternal bliss in the presence of God and the wicked shall be condemned to eternal death.

They do not seem to have a belief in hell included, or they would have said it, I suspect. Eternal death can easily be construed to mean hell is not a place of unhappiness or fire or torture or whatever. This would seem to allow it to be an eternal sleep or maybe even a permanent annihilation.

Is it a liberal place?

 

[Contarini]

Kevin Walker:

Hi Edwin,

I have spoken with students from Gordon College on the Boston Common over the past five years, and Presbyterian was one protestant sect which wasn’t mentioned. But each student has asserted after I tried to pin it down that Gordon College is a non-denominational Christian college. Yet they do have various Protestant types teaching there and lecturing there as the students talk about an interesting lecuture given by a Methodist or a workshop presented by an Anglican etc.

I may be getting the college and the seminary mixed up. The seminary is Gordon-Conwell. I know that “Gordon” is named after A.J. Gordon, who was a Baptist. So I presume that the “Conwell” part of the seminary is the Presbyterian part. Since the college is just called “Gordon” it may not have the Presbyterian element.

You’re (understandably) confusing a non/interdenominational institution with nondenominationalists as a variety of Protestants. Many evangelical colleges and other institutions are nondenominational (or more properly interdenominational) in that people from different denominations (and nondenominational churches) attend them. I know this can be confusing for Catholics.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Catholic Dude:

Just an FMI (for my information),

Is this Gordon college supposed to be a specific denomination of Protestant? From what I see here it is, but there are people teaching who believe in 100 different interpretations. This is crazy. If I am reading this right, how can you teach someone about Christ and not confuse them?

A.J. Gordon, after whom the college was named, was a Baptist. So I’d expect Baptist to be the predominant variety, but apparently the college is not denominationally affiliated.

Edwin