Such a thing as Non denominational?????

  • Thread starter Thread starter BOANERGES21
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Catholic Dude:
I just got back from here:

gordon.edu/faith/statement.htm

Its nice to see that the Bible is placed on the list before God.
Click to expand...
That isn’t an indication of importance–St. Thomas’s Summa Theologiae similarly deals with the nature of “sacra pagina” before addressing the existence and nature of God. Post-Reformation theology in particular (owing to the debates on this subject between Protestants and Catholics) tended to deal with what were called the “prolegomena” first, addressing the basis on which we believe before the content of what we believe. I think this is a horrible mistake, but it’s a common one.

Edwin
 
40.png
Pug:
I find it interesting that they say:

They do not seem to have a belief in hell included, or they would have said it, I suspect. Eternal death can easily be construed to mean hell is not a place of unhappiness or fire or torture or whatever. This would seem to allow it to be an eternal sleep or maybe even a permanent annihilation.

Is it a liberal place?
Click to expand...
No, Gordon is an evangelical school–a relatively moderate one but definitely not liberal. The statement is relatively vague to allow for different interpretations of just what “eternal death” means. John Stott, a very influential British evangelical (Anglican), took a position in favor of annihilation some years ago, and this may have influenced the statement–not that they’re supporting annihilation but that they are leaving room for people to believe in it without being considered heretics. Bear in mind that these statements are supposed to indicate the minimum necessary to believe in order to be affiliated with the school. They may not have annihilation in mind–it may just be a relatively moderate way of stating a belief in hell, emphasizing separation from God.

Edwin
 
Hi,
I’d like to put in my 2 cents worth on the non-denom question. I believe it was put best by a fellow named Matthew Gallatin who pastored a “Non-Denominational” congregation and is now Eastern Orthodox.
He said,“There is no such thing as a non-denominational church, they are all multi-denominational.”
hmmm…
 
40.png
BOANERGES21:
Curious what everyones thoughts are about this. Is there really such a thing as non denominational? Non denominational bible studies? Non demoninational churches? Maybe some of you belong to such a church. I always figure that such a church would have some aggregate belief within therefore actually making it a denominational church? Just some deep thought I had about it recently Your (name removed by moderator)ut & help on it???

Thanks
Click to expand...
It’s kind of like an oximoron.
 
To be a non-denom church, these requirements must be met:
  1. white members only
  2. americans only
  3. “God likes america more than any other country” must be believed
  4. once saved always saved is a core belief
  5. you must agree that rock music is the best way to worship
  6. communion is symbolic, so is baptism
  7. divorce is a-ok
  8. anything Jesus tells your heart is ok, is ok!
 
Believe it or not, the non-denominationals are adopting the name ‘Christian’ as a separate entity from the Catholics and the Protestants.

I met my first ‘Christian’ in 1975 when I joined the Navy; and have debated dozens of Christians ever since.

As a (Roman) Catholic, I see them as just another version of Protestanism, but they don’t see themselves that way. When I answer the question: Are you a Christian? over the internet, and when I say yes Catholic, I usually receive a cold shoulder. Also many Christians have questioned the Christianity of the Vatican!

Similar to the Protestants, the Christians believe:

*That the model of Christianity is in the New Testament, the Old Testament is unnecessary.

*By the Council of Nicea, all the apostles had passed away and the church split the role of elder into Bishop and Elder. No apostolic succession.

*Acts of obedience are separate from works.

*There is no unity regarding the authority of the Catholic Church, or where it is to gather all the information about being a Christian.

***Christians **see no scriptural authority for the Pope or positions higher than congregational elders.

***Christians **discount the conjecture of Catholic history because of no biblical proof of the apostolic succession. No biblical example of an apostle being replaced after Paul joins the group.

*Peter did start the Christian Church by preaching the first sermon in ACTS 2. From there how did we go along the line leading him to the Papacy?

But unlike Protestants, Christians do not recognize either Martin Luther or John Calvin.

These are some of the debating points I picked up from a Christian member of the ‘Church of Christ’, who wanted nothing to do with either Protestants and especially not Catholics.
 
Kevin,

The use of a phrase like “just Christian” is quite old (in modern terms, not in terms of the history of the Church!), not something new. As you note, members of the Christian Churches or Churches of Christ use that language (hence their name/s), and that movement started in the early 19th century. Those folks are marginally non-denominational, since they do belong to a network of churches that has some organization–but it’s not really a denomination. However, there are many churches that are more truly nondenominational, in the sense that they really don’t have allegiance to any group outside the local congregation.

This use of “Christian” to try to distinguish themselves from Protestantism (and hence claim to be more purely or simply Christian than other Christians, Catholic or Protestant) is very annoying, and it’s historically naive. I find it hard to be patient with these guys. Nondenominationalists are an offshoot of Protestantism, and they need to be gently reminded of this.

In Christ,

Edwin
 
40.png
UKcatholicGuy:
To be a non-denom church, these requirements must be met:
  1. white members only
  2. americans only
  3. “God likes america more than any other country” must be believed
Click to expand...
Wow…that would come as quite a shock to the non-denominational Korean church I used to pass on my way to work when I lived in Seattle.
 
40.png
jazzbaby1:
Wow…that would come as quite a shock to the non-denominational Korean church I used to pass on my way to work when I lived in Seattle.
Click to expand...
actually, thanks for supporting my point. why are protestant churches so racially divided? apparently the koreans had to start their own church; they didnt feel welcome in the white/standard nondenom i suppose

news flash: contemporary protestantism is a purely american phenomenon, completely foreign to the original ideas of any of the reformers

btw, i used to be a non-denom member so im speaking from experience.
 
In my personal experience “non-denominational” means “baptist-light.” All the “bilbe-believing” fundamentalism of the baptist churches, but with “half the calories” - i.e. none of the restrictions against music, dance, and alcohol. 😃

On a personal aside . . . .
My wife had an experience with a family member who decided to become a “christian” and joined a non denominational “community” church. My wife, coming from a protestant background prior to her conversion to catholicism, kept asking this family member what protestant affiliation her community church had to the mainline protestant churches. She kept asking this person, “I understand you say you are a christian, but you’re obviously a protestant, so what denomination are you most closely affiliated with, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, United Church of Christ? C’mon, what is it?” After several minutes of cross-examination, this family member finally relented and said, “okay, okay, I guess if you have to categorize me I’m a baptist!”

What a riot! 😃
 
40.png
geezerbob:
Non-D’s around here are usually Baptists who are trying to omit the name and lure in people who don’t like the Baptist church.
Click to expand...
Same here.

In fact, the pastor went to a Baptist Theological Seminary, and the church gives donations to the missionaries in the Southern Baptist Convention. Also, the pastor’s father is the pastor of a very large Baptist church.

The non-denom church I speak of has between 12,000-25,000 people attending per week. I think that qualifies as mega-church! But, don’t dare call it Baptist!

-Michael
 
Non denominational simply translates Non Catholic.

OR

Non Denominational = Protestant
 
40.png
BOANERGES21:
Curious what everyones thoughts are about this. Is there really such a thing as non denominational? Non denominational bible studies? Non demoninational churches? Maybe some of you belong to such a church. I always figure that such a church would have some aggregate belief within therefore actually making it a denominational church? Just some deep thought I had about it recently Your (name removed by moderator)ut & help on it???

Thanks
Click to expand...
So called nondenominational churches are all protestant in belief. There is no truely nondenominational that includes both Catholic and Orthodox beliefs.
 
40.png
ONLYONECHRIST:
Non-D means they don’t want to affilated with any sort of religous name. All they want to be known as is followers of Christ. Most of them if not all of them teach stricly from the bible and bring a new exicting way of rejoicing for the Lord. They are a lot more layed back and non-traditional, accepting anyone who is willing to listen to the word of God.
Click to expand...
There is a bit of a risk in this approach. Since the pastor ultimately determines the interpretation of scripture. Don’t forget Rev. Jim Jones was one of the early nondenominational leaders.

God Bless
 
Wow Kevin, you really hit home for me with your description.
UKCatholic
Your description hits home too, but can raise the hackles of some with the first three points. I feel they are pretty valid in my town and you are correct as the majority of non-denoms are an american (have it your way)phenomenom , but now there are non-denoms sprouting up with other demographics as it catches on.

I started having flashbacks of Calvary Chapel, which non-denom did you interact with?
 
40.png
Fergal:
Non denominational simply translates Non Catholic.

OR

Non Denominational = Protestant
Click to expand...
Of course all nondenominationalists are Protestants. But many, indeed most Protestants are not nondenominational.

Edwin
 
40.png
Ignatius:
So called nondenominational churches are all protestant in belief. There is no truely nondenominational that includes both Catholic and Orthodox beliefs.
Click to expand...
Nondenominationalism is a form of Protestantism. I don’t know why this is so difficult for people on this board to grasp. There really are nondenominational churches, and they represent a particular line of development from Protestantism. They are quite diverse–some are indeed “Baptist light,” others are more charismatic, others are Calvinist, and so on, and so forth. They’re a grab bag of evangelical Protestant beliefs and practices.

The whole denominational system is Protestant. So of course nondenominational Christians are Protestant too.

Edwin
 
40.png
scylla:
Wow Kevin, you really hit home for me with your description.
UKCatholic
Your description hits home too, but can raise the hackles of some with the first three points. I feel they are pretty valid in my town and you are correct as the majority of non-denoms are an american (have it your way)phenomenom , but now there are non-denoms sprouting up with other demographics as it catches on.

I started having flashbacks of Calvary Chapel, which non-denom did you interact with?
Click to expand...
Hi scylla,

The non-denom I interacted with was a college age member of the ‘Church of Christ’.

Here in Boston there exists so-called ‘Universal Churches’, church style buildings where anybody can practice their faith. This is different than the non-denominational Christian churches.
 
40.png
Contarini:
So of course nondenominational Christians are Protestant too.
Click to expand...
Hi Edwin,

Yes, maybe. But the non-denominational ‘Christians’ I have met all deny the tenets of Martin Luther and John Calvin. They are truly trying to make a break from Protestanism and achieve their own identity as ‘Christian’.
 
When things like that happen that just drive you nuts with “grrrr,”
say a lil prayer to the Holy Spirit for forgiveness for those evangelical/fundamentalist/non-denominational Christians, for guidance, strength and humility. That should make you feel good. :dancing:

PAX.
La Chiara:
Drives me crazy too. And when an evangelical/fundamentalist/non-denominational calls himself “Christian” and makes it very clear that he doesn’t consider Catholics to be Christian. GRRRR.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top