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fbl9
Guest
I grant the possibility of this for others, but don’t want to bet on it for my self.
same for me
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same for me
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thistle
Guest
Everyone who dies in a state of unrepented mortal sin goes to Hell.
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wjp984
Guest
I could be wrong, but I would think even for most examples of sudden death there would be a second or even a split second or so where you know you are dead but have time for one last thought to ask the mercy of God before your thoughts cease to exist.
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coda
Guest
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catharina
Guest
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coda
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J
Joe_Kelley
Guest
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catharina
Guest
Joe, I’ve no idea how the quote system got messed up, but I did not say the following: “In the case of sudden death{with no means of making a sacramental confession}, ANY contrite confession, perfect or not,obtains forgiveness for ALL sin. If one would live however, sacramental confession would be needed asap.”
It seems that CODA said that.
I’d said:
“Regarding IMPERFECT contrition, not in the case of mortal sin.”
meaning clearly that I dsiagree with his/her statement that all sin can be forgiven by imperfect contrition in the event of death.
My statement of ‘NOT TRUE’ was in response to Coda’s post: “Imperfect contrition, sometimes referred to as attrition, is when a person is sorry for his sins because he is afraidd of going to Hell, and only for that reason. This is not sufficient to be saved apart from the Sacrament. Even imperfect contrition, in the case of sudden death, is enough to obtain God’s mercy and salvation.”
Hope I’ve made this clear. I’ve no idea how the quotes were mixed.
I repeat: PERFECT contrition is ALWAYS NECESSARY for the forgiveness of mortal sin (even in the event of sudden death). That’s ALWAYS.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
I see the confusion - sorry for adding to it - Joe
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catharina
Guest
Thanks, Joe. It’s NOT your problem at all.
I can’t see how it happened. It’s a brand new challenge, huh?
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
The Church INFALLIBLY teaches that the “desire for” the Sacrament of Penance can obtain the forgiveness of mortal sin if done with perfect contrition (inspired by grace to be sorry especially for offending Christ and secondly a fear of hell) and with the firm intention of getting to the Confessional as soon as possible (if able).
IMPERFECT contrition (motivated primarily by fear of hell and secondly sorrow for offending Christ) is not sufficient to receive forgiveness of sins apart from the actual Sacrament of Penance (where imperfect is sufficient).
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coda
Guest
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catharina
Guest
I think we’re in full agreement with Church Teachings, (CCC):
"Contrition
1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.”[50]
1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.[51]
1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.[52]"
Repeating, “By itself however, IMPERFECT contrition CANNOT obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.”
I checked the Catechism for the direct quotes above but I do remember the teaching from my preparation for the Sacrament of Penance in 1953. Even as very young children, 55 years ago, my classmates and I were taught that if one lives one’s life far removed from the will and grace of God, then it’s unlikely that one will be blessed with the required perfect contrition if one faces sudden death without the opportunity for Sacramental absolution. That makes sense to me.
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catharina
Guest
CODA:
from the Catechism:
“1484 “Individual, integral confession and absolution remain the only ordinary way for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church, unless physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession.”[94] There are profound reasons for this. Christ is at work in each of the sacraments. He personally addresses every sinner: “My son, your sins are forgiven.”[95] He is the physician tending each one of the sick who need him to cure them.[96] He raises them up and reintegrates them into fraternal communion. Personal confession is thus the form most expressive of reconciliation with God and with the Church.”
This teaching in no way contradicts the teaching that:
“1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.[51]”
In fact, it affirms it. When “physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession” i.e., Sacramental Confession), then yes, the Church assures us that God has provided an additional means of seeking forgiveness (absolution) and that is through our offering an act of PERFECT contrition for our sins while holding the intent to seek the Sacrament of Penance asap. To be in the habit of rejecting sin because one is loathe to offend God, the Author of all life and goodness, almost presupposes a life given to the active love of God (meaning: an act of perfect contrition is not “a given” as an ordinary grace).
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fhansen
Guest
We don’t live in a perfect world but we do know a perfect God. He can handle it.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
It seems to me that it might be hard to ignore the punishment and focus solely on love of God if the fires of hell are already licking at my toes. 
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catharina
Guest
Yup.It seems to me that it might be hard to ignore the punishment and focus solely on love of God if the fires of hell are already licking at my toes.
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
Perfect contrition does NOT require you to ignore the punishment aspect, it just requires that attrition (fear of hell) to be subordinate to your love of God and sorrow for offending Him.It seems to me that it might be hard to ignore the punishment and focus solely on love of God if the fires of hell are already licking at my toes.
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coda
Guest
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catharina
Guest
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