Sin changes you.
Forgiven or not, these changes remain and need to be fixed before we can enter heaven.
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Forgiven or not, these changes remain and need to be fixed before we can enter heaven.
T
tonyrey
Guest
A very good point. Sin is like a drug. We become addicted to our vices. When we keep giving in to temptation we become weak, self-centred, inhuman, degraded and incapable of unselfish love.
M
minder_bender
Guest
to Mo3 : I apreciate your ferver which comes with being young. But as you age, God teaches you wisdom. You are making it all too complicated! The Old Testiment is rich with tradition and lessons but followed the Law. Jesus came to complete the law and by doing so released us from it. That doesn’t mean we can now do anything we please. What it means is we are now back in communion with God and anyone in communion with God reflects His nature which is good. When we find ourselves at odds with God’s will things start to go wrong. So we forgive either our brother or ourselves and return to God’s Grace. Jesus showed just how different the Old Testiment teachings were to His when He said that the OT says an eye for an eye, but I say, do good to those who hurt you… As for purgatory? Atonment is satisfaction for wrong doing! SATISFACTION! end! finish! Remuneration means Pardon. Pardon means to release from further punishment - to cancel or not exact penalty for. This is straight forward and why Jesus called it “GOOD NEWS”. I can’t see Jesus saying, "Oh! by the way, when I atoned on the cross for remuneration of sin, I was just kidding, you have to go to purgatory because?? because it was all untrue?? No!.. Jesus did what He said He did. And we need to embrace the GOOD NEWS, without trying to pretend humility & creating guilt where there should be rejoicing. You reap what you sow! It you are constantly thinking of venial sins or mortal sins & their looming penalty or woo is me & the world, THAT is all you will see around you. Better to set you eyes on Jesus and become like Him. This is what The Mother of God is constantly saying in Her visitations. Repent & turn toward Jesus. Guilt & purgatory and other such doom & gloom preachings are a DISTRACTION from what should be our true line of thought. To become one with Jesus.
M
mo3
Guest
Mat 5:17 - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
Jesus did not release us from everything in the OT like the 10 commandments.
Please quote chapter and verse which says “end! Finish!”. This is your “interpretation’ which is incomplete and in accurate.
Mark 1:15 - This is the time of fulfillment. The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.
Jesus tells us to believe in the gospel. The Good News is the entire gospel, not just one concept or one verse.
Heb 10:26 - If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins.
If Jesus dying on the cross did everything, why isn’t everyone saved? Why do we have to follow the 10 commandments? Why must we eat His body and drink His blood?
This is a “interpretation” which is incorrect and the Bible says something else.
Mat 7:21-23 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name? Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’
We cannot take one concept like “become one with Jesus” and simplify it to the point where we ignore the rest of the gospel. Believing in Jesus is more than intellectual assent. It is also doing and following.
God bless.
M
minder_bender
Guest
Jesus did not release us from everything in the OT like the 10 commandments
You are absolutely right! His laws are now “written in our hearts”. The 10 equate down to 2. Love God with your whole heart,soul & Mind + Love your neighbour as yourself. All else is cream. (my own interpretation)
Please quote chapter and verse which says “end! Finish!”
Not my interpretation. Webster dictionary’s interpretation. I would be interested to see what you think atonment & remuneration mean? and why you think that Jesus left anything incomplete.
Jesus tells us to believe in the gospel. The Good News is the entire gospel, not just one concept or one verse
Yes! This is True. But it is also True that our interpretation of that Gospel is open to human bias. It is the Holy Spirit that keeps everything on track, inspite of man’s errors.
Heb 10:26 - If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins
“No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” (1 John 3:9).
Why do we have to follow the 10 commandments? Why must we eat His body and drink His blood?
Because we are a barbarian and wayward lot and we need guidelines to keep us safe and happy until “time” has done it’s job.
Eat My flesh & drink My blood if taken out of context would have us all cannibals. Thankfully the Holy Spirit is guiding us to understand that this means having Jesus as our full and total nurishment. To feed on His presence. To have Him become one with us as totally as we can perceive it happening and to do it as often as possible. (in our minds) My interpretation again
Mat 7:21-23 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
And what is the will of the Father? Love God and Love your neighbour.
Corinthians 1-13
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,** but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Love & Blessings to you**
You are absolutely right! His laws are now “written in our hearts”. The 10 equate down to 2. Love God with your whole heart,soul & Mind + Love your neighbour as yourself. All else is cream. (my own interpretation)
Please quote chapter and verse which says “end! Finish!”
Not my interpretation. Webster dictionary’s interpretation. I would be interested to see what you think atonment & remuneration mean? and why you think that Jesus left anything incomplete.
Jesus tells us to believe in the gospel. The Good News is the entire gospel, not just one concept or one verse
Yes! This is True. But it is also True that our interpretation of that Gospel is open to human bias. It is the Holy Spirit that keeps everything on track, inspite of man’s errors.
Heb 10:26 - If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins
“No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” (1 John 3:9).
Why do we have to follow the 10 commandments? Why must we eat His body and drink His blood?
Because we are a barbarian and wayward lot and we need guidelines to keep us safe and happy until “time” has done it’s job.
Eat My flesh & drink My blood if taken out of context would have us all cannibals. Thankfully the Holy Spirit is guiding us to understand that this means having Jesus as our full and total nurishment. To feed on His presence. To have Him become one with us as totally as we can perceive it happening and to do it as often as possible. (in our minds) My interpretation again
Mat 7:21-23 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
And what is the will of the Father? Love God and Love your neighbour.
Corinthians 1-13
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,** but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Love & Blessings to you**
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20purple02
Guest
I know my reply is very late but better late than never. Your response to my question is why this site is so good for information and discussion. I totally and completely disagree with the statement that salvation remains to be “worked out”. But that being said I respect your expression of faith even as I disagree with it.
I do not believe in purgatory nor do I believe it exists in any form. Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins and for complete restoration of the relationship between God and his children. There is no need for purification for a true Christian. A Christian is any person, of any faith, who professes complete faith in God, that Jesus died on the cross for all sins and that we confess our sins to God to be completely forgiven.
In the moment I draw my last breath in the next nano-second I will be kneeling in the presence of God. He will search for my name in the Book of Life. He will find my name and I will spend an eternity in heaven with God, angels and all the saints. By the way my use of the word “saints” includes all Christians. Saints are not picked by the Vatican and it is not a term for a select few of people. Jesus refers to believers as “saints”. This is the correct use of the word.
I love reading the posts, the answers and the number of folks who are searching for God. It is a wonderful thing.
Gail
I do not believe in purgatory nor do I believe it exists in any form. Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins and for complete restoration of the relationship between God and his children. There is no need for purification for a true Christian. A Christian is any person, of any faith, who professes complete faith in God, that Jesus died on the cross for all sins and that we confess our sins to God to be completely forgiven.
In the moment I draw my last breath in the next nano-second I will be kneeling in the presence of God. He will search for my name in the Book of Life. He will find my name and I will spend an eternity in heaven with God, angels and all the saints. By the way my use of the word “saints” includes all Christians. Saints are not picked by the Vatican and it is not a term for a select few of people. Jesus refers to believers as “saints”. This is the correct use of the word.
I love reading the posts, the answers and the number of folks who are searching for God. It is a wonderful thing.
Gail
F
fhansen
Guest
Saints are simply a few souls whose eternal destiny we have an assurance about. And yes, in that sense “saints” refers to any who are saved. But as to the rest of your post, the means to eternal life doesn’t end with mere faith. Matt 25 explains the way quite clearly:
**31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
**
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20purple02
Guest
I appreciate your detailed response. I wonder why so many postings on this site are answered by information and quotes from Catechism and by quotes from Vatican Counsels? Why isn’t the Bible the source of information? Catechism is written by men. The Bible is written by:
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” 2 Timothy 3:16
and
“…knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” 2 Peter 2:20-21
These two scriptures tell me who wrote the Bible, why it was written and why it contains no mistakes. I believe the Bible is the holy written word of God and contains no errors from the first word to the very last.
So why, and I am asking very respectfully, isn’t the Bible the source of information?
I appreciate our dialogue.
Gail
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20purple02
Guest
What do you mean by "Saints are simply a few souls whose eternal destiny we have an assurance about?” Do you mean that people who are called saints by the Catholic church are the only human who go to heaven no matter what life they have led? I am very confused by what you said.
I am also confused by " the means to eternal life doesn’t end with mere faith. Matt 25 explains the way quite clearly": Actually, your statements perplex me.
What is “mere faith”?
“But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
Code:
Hebrews 11:6Does your quote about Matthew 25 31:44 mean that you believe we must work for our salvation? That good works are necessary to go to heaven? Please clarify for me.
Gail
F
fhansen
Guest
Well. I’m sort of confused by your questions. What I’m saying is that, when someone is declared a saint by the CC, it’s *because *of the kind of life they lived-so that the Church believes we can be certain of their destinies whereas we might not be as certain of others.
Faith is imperative-essential-but faith is not everything-it’s the beginning of our walk with God. There are way too many passages in the bible exhorting us to live rightly, be vigilant, keep oil in our lamps, invest our talents, be perfect, be holy, continue to live in the Spirit, with the loss of eternal life as the outcome if we don’t. In any case, love is everything. We can possess faith and other virtues without possessing love but within love everything else is already attained.
…if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 1 Cor 13:2
**4What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?i 15If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?j 17So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. ** James 2:14-17
**You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. **James 2:19
F
fhansen
Guest
M
mo3
Guest
If you read the Catechism you will find it saturated with biblical quotes and it provides the interpretation of scripture.
This verse (2 Tim 3:16) does not tell us who wrote the bible and it does not say “only scripture” is given. The Table of Contents in your bible is one of the most important things in your bible but it is not “inspired scripture.” You must consult someone you trust to provide you the Table of Contents. The Catechism tells us there are 73 books in the bible.
My bible has different wording than yours:
2 Peter 1:20-21; Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.
This is an important verse as it distinctly tells us “there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation”. It warns us against personal interpretation of the bible. This is why we need the Catechism. Depending upon whose bible study you go to, you can get all kinds of crazy interpretations. We can go to the catechism for solid interpretation.
The bible is a very important source of information. However, as we see from the points above, the Bible does not contain an “inspired Table of Contents”. Also the Bible does not interpret itself.
God bless.
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