Suggestion regarding the eBay problem

[Dr.Colossus]

I was looking on eBay’s site regarding prohibited items. One of the things they prohibit selling is “counterfeit items”, and their policy regarding fraud is very strict.

It occurred to me that there is no way to tell whether or not the Eucharistic hosts being sold on eBay are actually consecrated. They could therefore be “counterfeit”, and would constitute fraud if a person bought one thinking it had been consecrated. Since there is no way to actually discern a consecrated Host from a piece of bread, eBay should follow its own rules and ban the sale of such an item.

I don’t think suggesting this myself would get very far, but perhaps a larger organization that’s already dealing with this like the Catholic League might be able to make a case for this.

How would I go about forwarding this idea to them?

 

[rastell]

Dr. Colossus:

I was looking on eBay’s site regarding prohibited items. One of the things they prohibit selling is “counterfeit items”, and their policy regarding fraud is very strict.

It occurred to me that there is no way to tell whether or not the Eucharistic hosts being sold on eBay are actually consecrated. They could therefore be “counterfeit”, and would constitute fraud if a person bought one thinking it had been consecrated. Since there is no way to actually discern a consecrated Host from a piece of bread, eBay should follow its own rules and ban the sale of such an item.

I don’t think suggesting this myself would get very far, but perhaps a larger organization that’s already dealing with this like the Catholic League might be able to make a case for this.

How would I go about forwarding this idea to them?

It provides Ebay with a “way out” if they want one. It’s worth a try.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

rastell:

It provides Ebay with a “way out” if they want one. It’s worth a try.

That’s my thinking. It is my hope that eBay is simply trying to stay neutral–they don’t feel like they can show “favoritism” toward the Catholic faith by removing this item and not others.

I sincerely doubt eBay thinks they can make a whole lot of money off of this, because the number of customers they know they will lose will far offset any revenue generated by sales of the Eucharist.

 

[Fitz]

Dr. Colossus:

That’s my thinking. It is my hope that eBay is simply trying to stay neutral–they don’t feel like they can show “favoritism” toward the Catholic faith by removing this item and not others.

I sincerely doubt eBay thinks they can make a whole lot of money off of this, because the number of customers they know they will lose will far offset any revenue generated by sales of the Eucharist.

Go for it. I know I can’t use Ebay until they make the right choice.

 

[abcdefg]

Can we identify if the bread can be used in a papal mass? that is does bread used in papal mass have some special features?

 

[BlueMit11]

Dr. Colossus:

That’s my thinking. It is my hope that eBay is simply trying to stay neutral–they don’t feel like they can show “favoritism” toward the Catholic faith by removing this item and not others.
.

They are already showing favoritism toward Native Americans and holocaust survivors with their other banned items:

EBay allows auction of Eucharist, not Indian relics

    San Francisco, Apr. 20 (LifesiteNews.com/CWN) -

(…) eBay does forbid the sale of religious items of Native American origin. The eBay “Prohibited and Restricted Items” rules note under “Artifacts” that Native American “gravesite-related items, and burial items may not be listed on eBay” including, “Native American masks and ‘prayer sticks’ from all Southwestern tribes.” (…)

The Community Watch Team of eBay’s Trust Safety division responded to complaints about the sale of Holy Communion saying it does not prohibit sales of items “endowed with sacred properties by certain religious groups.” Donohue concluded, “Since the policy is conditional, i.e., it refers only to ‘certain’ groups, it would be instructive to know which religious groups eBay would protect. Obviously, Catholics did not make the cut.”

 

[chicago]

Ebay has also pulled items because they contain some sort of human (or even animal) bodily fluids or parts. Remember when they pulled the napkin with Alan Keyes sweat, for instance? Considering the fact that Catholics believe the Host to be a human being, Jesus Christ Himself, they are just plain being offensive to Catholics (whether they believe it or not) by allowing it to be sold. The fact that they let it go is basically a direct slap in the face and insult to all Catholics. It would be very easy for them to stop this if they wanted to. They clearly don’t give a damn.

It would be nice if Cardinal Ratzinger would express his dismay at their allowing this while his election was ongoing.

 

[abcdefg]

boycotting ebay permanently is a method “peine forte et dure”

@chicago:
I don’t think ebay has such a rule. why don’t they pull the relic that has Padre Pio’s blood on it?

 

[chicago]

If they don’t have a formal rule about it, then they merely apply the excuse selectively.

People on a sideshows email list I read say that they have taken certain animal stuff offline.

There definitely IS something to it, then, in the argument ebay uses for removing whatever they like.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

I sent a message to the Catholic League regarding my idea. Hopefully they can put it to some use.

They are already showing favoritism toward Native Americans and holocaust survivors with their other banned items:

It’s a lot easier to justify when it’s PC. I don’t support their subjective method of interpreting their criteria, but I sincerely cannot believe that the majority of staff at Ebay want to alienate a quarter of the population. I think they just need some help finding a good reason to do what we want. At least, that’s what Charity demands I believe.

Can we identify if the bread can be used in a papal mass? that is does bread used in papal mass have some special features?

The papal Mass is a Roman-rite Mass, and has the same bread as the rest–flour, water & nothing else.

Ebay has also pulled items because they contain some sort of human (or even animal) bodily fluids or parts. Remember when they pulled the napkin with Alan Keyes sweat, for instance? Considering the fact that Catholics believe the Host to be a human being, Jesus Christ Himself, they are just plain being offensive to Catholics (whether they believe it or not) by allowing it to be sold. The fact that they let it go is basically a direct slap in the face and insult to all Catholics. It would be very easy for them to stop this if they wanted to. They clearly don’t give a damn.

We can’t draw that inference. Human remains are different from the Living Body of Christ. They don’t believe it contains human substance, and science cannot demonstrate that. I know it’s difficult to do, but we have to approach this problem by looking at it the way they see it, and figuring out how to reach an agreement that satisfies both parties.

It would be nice if Cardinal Ratzinger would express his dismay at their allowing this while his election was ongoing.

It’s possible His Holiness Benedict XVI is not even aware of the problem.

 

[mommy]

Dr. Colossus:

I was looking on eBay’s site regarding prohibited items. One of the things they prohibit selling is “counterfeit items”, and their policy regarding fraud is very strict.

It occurred to me that there is no way to tell whether or not the Eucharistic hosts being sold on eBay are actually consecrated. They could therefore be “counterfeit”, and would constitute fraud if a person bought one thinking it had been consecrated. Since there is no way to actually discern a consecrated Host from a piece of bread, eBay should follow its own rules and ban the sale of such an item.

I don’t think suggesting this myself would get very far, but perhaps a larger organization that’s already dealing with this like the Catholic League might be able to make a case for this.

How would I go about forwarding this idea to them?

Every single one of my letters to them urged them on the basis of Fraud and Theft.

They still didnt’ care.

 

[Pumpkin]

Strainght from the horses mouth…eBay has given an out in this article:

washingtontimes.com/business/20050419-094040-4060r.htm

Here is a snippet regarding the Eucharist that got bids in the millions:

“We understood it would offend some people, but it’s a legitimate listing. If it were to be put up again, we’d let it stay there,” said Hanzi Durzy, an EBay spokesman. “We didn’t pull the listing because of what it was. We pulled it because bidding got into an outrageous price range with no bidder preapproval.”

Looks to me like if the bidding gets out of hand then they pull an item. If they get more and more problems with the Eucharist (including petition, true boycot and email) after awhile, won’t it just be easier for eBay to put it on the banned list than continuing to police the sale? Just a thought…
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/firework2.gif

 

[Dr.Colossus]

Pumpkin:

Looks to me like if the bidding gets out of hand then they pull an item. If they get more and more problems with the Eucharist (including petition, true boycot and email) after awhile, won’t it just be easier for eBay to put it on the banned list than continuing to police the sale? Just a thought…

Well here’s a question, then: would creating accounts with eBay simply for the purpose of outrageously inflating the price of Eucharist auctions be morally licit? If people from CA Forums got together and inflated the auction prices to $10 billion or something, Ebay would pull every last one of them. Eventually they’d get tired of it and relent by simply banning the sale of it.

It is technically “illegal” to do so, because it is against the eBay agreement/contract. However, is this not a case where we might morally justify civil disobedience to see such an injustice stopped?

 

[vollygirl]

Pumpkin:

Looks to me like if the bidding gets out of hand then they pull an item. If they get more and more problems with the Eucharist (including petition, true boycot and email) after awhile, won’t it just be easier for eBay to put it on the banned list than continuing to police the sale? Just a thought…

Lady you crack me up you are reading my mind today. Pumpkin as in Mr. Pumpkin Bunny I presume? Well you figured out a good ID afterall. Thank you for telling about this message forum I have enjoyed looking around. We’ll chat more later.
****Sorry guys I did not mean to hijack this thread and go off topic, P and I go way back and she is the one who introduced me to this forum and the concerns over at eBay.
VG

 

[vollygirl]

Dr. Colossus:

Well here’s a question, then: would creating accounts with eBay simply for the purpose of outrageously inflating the price of Eucharist auctions be morally licit? If people from CA Forums got together and inflated the auction prices to $10 billion or something, Ebay would pull every last one of them. Eventually they’d get tired of it and relent by simply banning the sale of it.

It is technically “illegal” to do so, because it is against the eBay agreement/contract. However, is this not a case where we might morally justify civil disobedience to see such an injustice stopped?

For me my entire concern with eBay is based on the pick-n-choose ethics of their business practices, so I do not know that I can turn around and then do something unethical as well. I am just wondering if that is what these bidders did this last time. Somewhat unusual that eBay would say this to the media, because it certainly gives people ideas.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

vollygirl:

For me my entire concern with eBay is based on the pick-n-choose ethics of their business practices, so I do not know that I can turn around and then do something unethical as well. I am just wondering if that is what these bidders did this last time. Somewhat unusual that eBay would say this to the media, because it certainly gives people ideas.

Well that’s my entire question: is it unethical given the circumstances? Both Pope John Paul II and then-Cardinal Ratzinger have stated that in circumstances where the law allows injustice to occur, it is not immoral to disobey the civil law (though never the Divine law) in order to bring it to an end. Could fake or “shill” bidding be justified? Or is it too dishonest?

 

[chicago]

Dr. Colossus:

We can’t draw that inference. Human remains are different from the Living Body of Christ. They don’t believe it contains human substance, and science cannot demonstrate that. I know it’s difficult to do, but we have to approach this problem by looking at it the way they see it, and figuring out how to reach an agreement that satisfies both parties.

There have been times where the species has tested out as human flesh and blood.

But, that aside, the point is that Catholics worldwide believe this and they are showing a disregard and disrespect for that belief, thereby insulting us. If they can ban a cat fetus in fermaldahide from being sold, they can show a little deferrence by respecting the belief of Catholics about the Body of Christ.

 

[chicago]

mommy:

Every single one of my letters to them urged them on the basis of Fraud and Theft.

They still didnt’ care.

They never will until it starts costing them money.

 

[Fitz]

chicago:

They never will until it starts costing them money.

I cancelled my pay pal and my ebay account today and told them specifically that it was due to their lack of response to Catholics and their failure to ban the sale of the Holy Eucharist.

 

[chicago]

That’s good to hear, Fitz. I suppose if a few tens of thousands do the same they might get the message. Or if a few hundred of the big sellers and buyers do. But I suspect that, ultiamately, we’re probably pretty marginal to them. They’ll need to lose multi millions of dollars to decide it’s time to change.