Suggestion regarding the eBay problem

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Dr. Colossus:
Well that’s my entire question: is it unethical given the circumstances? Both Pope John Paul II and then-Cardinal Ratzinger have stated that in circumstances where the law allows injustice to occur, it is not immoral to disobey the civil law (though never the Divine law) in order to bring it to an end. Could fake or “shill” bidding be justified? Or is it too dishonest?
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I do not know either. Would it fall under venial or grave sin? Since a person would know they were lying as they bid…it would be with full consciousness. I do not have an eBay account anymore anyway, so I am not about to open another just to post fake bids, especially since I am unsure about the morality of it all.
Anyone else want to give their moral opinion on this topic of inflating the bid?
 
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Pumpkin:
I do not know either. Would it fall under venial or grave sin?If either then we can’t do it.
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Since a person would know they were lying as they bid…it would be with full consciousness.
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Yet I think it could be argued that everyone knows a person bidding $100,000,000,000 on an item is obviously not going to pay, and therefore it could be considered “fictional” rather than outright lying.

I know it’s a borderline justification…but if this is a way to stop eBay from this sacrilege I want to put it through a thorough moral investigation.
 
Dr. Colossus:
Yet I think it could be argued that everyone knows a person bidding $100,000,000,000 on an item is obviously not going to pay, and therefore it could be considered “fictional” rather than outright lying.
I know it’s a borderline justification…but if this is a way to stop eBay from this sacrilege I want to put it through a thorough moral investigation.
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That is interesting. The buyers would have to know it is bogus, and they would still have the opportunity to sell it elsewhere, it would just decrease the chances of it occurring at eBay.
Since their claims of having a validly consecrated host cannot be verified then they may be trying to sell a “fictional” host. Biding with “fictional” amounts of money could protect an unsuspecting catholic from bidding their hard-earned money that they cannot afford, to save the “fictional” host.
Conversely~~~
The continued dilemma is ultimately did we save the host when the seller does not sell a consecrated host? If it is truly, consecrated body of Christ, it is still in the hands of someone that has no reverence and may desicrate our Lord.
 
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Pumpkin:
The continued dilemma is ultimately did we save the host when the seller does not sell a consecrated host? If it is truly, consecrated body of Christ, it is still in the hands of someone that has no reverence and may desicrate our Lord.
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If someone has the Eucharist in their posession, there is little we could do anyway short of storming their residence and taking it from them. Catholics buying the host out of respect is not an option because, as others have stated here, it creates a situation where people realize they can ransom Christ to the highest paying Catholic.
 
Dr. Colossus:
If someone has the Eucharist in their posession, there is little we could do anyway short of storming their residence and taking it from them.
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One we have ehausted all our moral options, God will ensure the appropriate outcome will occur. Maybe not in our time, but certianly in his.
 
Here is my third and apparently final letter from ebay. I think they sound rather inflexible and unable to understand that this will hurt them in the long run. I hope that Catholics boycott them for a good long time. By the way, don’t they sound a bit perturbed that they had to deal with me more than once already? I feel like this letter was sort of like a scolding…

Hello ,

Thank you for once again writing in to let us know your feelings on the completed sale of this item which was listed through our site by one of our members.

We have responded to all of your previous correspondence explaining why this item was allowed to be sold and we understand that you do not agreewith our decision. We respect your feelings and we do not expect you to agree with our decision but we ask that you please also respect eBay’s decision to keep our site a worldwide marketplace where nearly anything that is not against the law can be sold by nearly anyone in the world
regardless of religious belief, race, sex or physical ability. Please
remember that eBay does not possess and sell the actual items listed on our site, they are listed by individuals not affiliated with eBay, and so long as they comply with site policies, we are involved in the transactions very minimally.

Your concerns have been passed on through the proper channels and futurecorrespondence will not change our decision to keep this completed item showing on the site. Please be aware that this will be the last correspondence you will receive from us regarding this matter. You have explained your views and we have explained our decision. Future correspondence will be read but will not receive a reply.

We do appreciate you writing in to express your concerns.

Regards,

Myron
eBay Community Watch
 
We respect your feelings and we do not expect you to agree with our decision but we ask that you please also respect eBay’s decision to keep our site a worldwide marketplace where nearly anything that is not against the law can be sold by nearly anyone in the world regardless of religious belief, race, sex or physical ability.
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Please remember that eBay does not possess and sell the actual items listed on our site, they are listed by individuals not affiliated with eBay, and so long as they comply with site policies, we are involved in the transactions very minimally.

Sounds almost nazi-like…we do as were told…we are not the ones “actually” selling the items… :tsktsk:
Future correspondence will be read but will not receive a reply.
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Doubtful:rolleyes:
We do appreciate you writing in to express your concerns.
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Again doubtful!:yawn:

Fitz, I read an article that was posted on the eBay thread you started stating eBay recieved over 9,000 complaints. They aparently do not care. I think that we should somehow publish all of the letters they have sent with such lack of regard. We should pass them out in our church bullitens…Get the word out to as many Catholics as we possibly can so that they recieve at least 9000 close account messages. If everyone of those 9000 complaints they recieved were recieved for 10 days straight would they change their mind?
It just makes me sick. You have been the loud voice you have done a great job.

The good news is at least have not seen another Eucharist. Maybe 9000 complaints to eBay is no big deal, but that would close down any normal person’s email account and they would have to reconsider. Mybe we can just get the sellers to back down.
 
I don’t have time to check this out right now as our Catholic annual charity starts in an hour, but there might be some worthwhile stuff looking into here. ebaysucks.com/ I like the name, at least!
 
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Fitz:
Here is my third and apparently final letter from ebay. I think they sound rather inflexible and unable to understand that this will hurt them in the long run. I hope that Catholics boycott them for a good long time. By the way, don’t they sound a bit perturbed that they had to deal with me more than once already? I feel like this letter was sort of like a scolding…

Hello ,

Thank you for once again writing in to let us know your feelings on the completed sale of this item which was listed through our site by one of our members.

We have responded to all of your previous correspondence explaining why this item was allowed to be sold and we understand that you do not agreewith our decision. We respect your feelings and we do not expect you to agree with our decision but we ask that you please also respect eBay’s decision to keep our site a worldwide marketplace where nearly anything that is not against the law can be sold by nearly anyone in the world
regardless of religious belief, race, sex or physical ability. Please
remember that eBay does not possess and sell the actual items listed on our site, they are listed by individuals not affiliated with eBay, and so long as they comply with site policies, we are involved in the transactions very minimally.

Your concerns have been passed on through the proper channels and futurecorrespondence will not change our decision to keep this completed item showing on the site. Please be aware that this will be the last correspondence you will receive from us regarding this matter. You have explained your views and we have explained our decision. Future correspondence will be read but will not receive a reply.

We do appreciate you writing in to express your concerns.

Regards,

Myron
eBay Community Watch
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These are the same e-mails I recieved from Ebay - right before I also cancelled my account (been using it for almost 8 years).
I wish there was another version of Ebay - because I will miss shopping there.
 
There is more than one revenue streams for eBay and maybe that sould be where we can concetrate.

EBay does have other divisions like Half.com and many companies use eBay as their storefront. By not using the other eBay divisions and eMailing the other companies that use eBat as thier storefront, we may get a better response from eBay.

PF
 
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ridesawhitehors:
I wish there was another version of Ebay - because I will miss shopping there.
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I will miss shopping there, too. I have been without a computer for 2 years and got the one I am using now a couple of weeks ago. I was happy to have access to Ebay again. Then I saw the posts in these forums regarding the sale of the Eucharist.

Does anyone know how the online petition works? I signed it early on and I see that it is still active and still being signed.

Just wondering when I should close my Ebay account. I am waiting to see what happens, but not sure how long to wait. So far it does not seem likely that Ebay will consider our complaint and ban the sale of the Eucharist, in which case I couldn’t continue to do business with them. 😦
 
It would be nice if the cardinals (upon their return) and/or the president of the USCCB would seek some media attention and speak out forcefully about this. If the matter isn’t forced publically, ain’t nothing going to happen, despite our little moral standoffs with them.
 
I posted support for the seller of “eBay’s morals” by posting on her auction page. She to wrote everyone who did so to say that eBay cancelled her auction. Here’s the e-mail in its entirety:

Thank you for all of your support!! I was just notified by eBay that they cancelled my auction. I’m going to compile a list of all of the comments that I received from so many wonderful people who supported me and blessed me. Whenever someone questions the unity of the Catholic faith or the number of people who don’t believe in the true presence, I will refer back to this list for my encouragement. (Some of whom were not even Catholic!)

I spent a wonderful day at the zoo with my family today and missed the final hit count and bid amount. Last I saw it was about 4000 views and the bid was over $1.5 million! LOL!!

God bless you all and your support in Jesus, the Holy Eucharist and the Catholic Church.

You have ALL given me strength.

Your sister in Christ,

Kathy Hansen
Code: 
Besides complaining to eBay by their web site, you an also call them at 1-800-322-9266 or 1-888-749-3229 
 
Or write eBay’s president: 
 
Office of the President 
EBAY Inc 
Meg Whitman 
2145 Hamilton Ave 
San Jose, CA 95125
The text of the email sent to me by eBay (bold highlighted by me to show the irony-I guess I was right, there ARE no morals) :

*“*We realize you may not be aware of this policy. However, auction listings that do not offer an actual item for sale are not allowed.

*Our User Agreement states, in part: “5.1 Listing Description…Your listings may only include text descriptions, graphics, pictures and other content relevant to the sale of that item…” *

Your listing(s) did not offer an actual item for sale. Because it was in violation of eBay policy, your listing has been ended early. All associated fees have been credited to your account.

*This notice is based solely upon review of the aforementioned listing(s). We encourage you to review all of your listings to ensure full compliance to our guidelines. If found to be in violation of one or more of our guidelines, your current listings will be subject to further disciplinary action, including the cancelation of your listings. *

For a better understanding of our listing guidelines and how they affect the way you list your items, please visit the following URL:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-ov.html

For information on infringing or illegal items, as well as information on other eBay listing guidelines, please visit the following URL:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_allowed.html* For more information on why eBay has ended an auction, please visit: *

**http://pages.ebay.com/ebaymotors/help/confidence/listing-ended.html

*Future listings that demonstrate a pattern of violations may result in the termination of all of your listings, and repeated occurrences may jeopardize your eBay account status. We sincerely value you as a member of our trading community and look forward to a continued successful relationship. To ensure this relationship, we must respectfully ask that you abide by our guidelines and User Agreement in the future. *

*We thank you in advance for your cooperation. *

*Regards, *

*Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department) *

eBay Inc”
 
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harveyc:
I don’t have time to check this out right now as our Catholic annual charity starts in an hour, but there might be some worthwhile stuff looking into here. ebaysucks.com/ I like the name, at least!
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That is certainly an interesting website. Their message forum has many people with concerns over the business practices of eBay!
 
You may be interested to know that the Ebay boycott now has a website at www.boycottebay.org, where Catholics can get information about the boycott, the facts that led up to it, and how they can join the effort.
Vincent DiCarlo
A Decent Respect
1331 Garden Highway, Suite 300
Sacramento, CA 95833-9773

www.boycottebay.org
 
A religous brother informed me this afternoon that he learned that a priest in his order help distribute Holy Communion at the Installation Mass for Pope Benedict XVI. The brother was told that the Vatican is aware of the eBay problem and that the priests were prepared prior to the Mass to make certain that communicants ate the Eucharist. Someone had posted in a different thread a week or two ago that Papal Masses were somewhat a free-for-all. I hope that this change is for good.
 
What disturbs me most is the silence of the Catholic faithful. I think that what we need to do is get more Catholics involved in this. Far too many aren’t even aware of what’s happening. There’s also the unfortunate fact that there will be many who won’t care; so many don’t believe anymore in the Divine Presence. This is a test of our faith. Tell every Catholic you know, and every person of any faith who realizes that if the Catholic faith is abused, then anyone is next. 9000 emails is nothing to EBay. We need at least a million or more, then EBay would pay attention. Their website should be melted down with email from faithful Catholics!
 
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