Suggestions on how to get a congregation to sing

[Corki]

“I usually sing unless the song is protestant and the words are inappropriate.”

I see comments like this on many of the threads on music. I do not know what this means. What are Protestant hymns versus Catholic Hymns. What characterizes each? I recognize that some in our hymnals are authored by Luther, or come from another tradition so those are easy. What about others? I really am perplexed.

Without getting into specific criticism of particular songs, suffice it to say that many songs that have made their way into popular hymnals are more Protestant than Catholic in their theology. For example, some refer to the Eucharist as symbolic or to the Church as an empty building (ignoring Christ in the tablernacle). Some are quite blatant while others are more sneaky.

I have nothing against Luther but the hynmal used in my parish contains quite a few songs written by a contemporary Christian musician who is also a public apostate. I don’t sing those on principle.

 

[liturgyluver]

“I usually sing unless the song is protestant and the words are inappropriate.”

I see comments like this on many of the threads on music. I do not know what this means. What are Protestant hymns versus Catholic Hymns. What characterizes each? I recognize that some in our hymnals are authored by Luther, or come from another tradition so those are easy. What about others? I really am perplexed.

I think many people are in fact referring to modern hymns versus traditional ones and from discussions I have had they tend to assume that the modern hymns are protestant and the traditonal ones Catholic, but nothing could be further from the truth. Many of the modern hymns are in fact penned by Catholics, wheras many of the great traditional hymns were penned by Anglicans, Methodists and Presbyterians, but are now included in our hymnals…

There are quite a few Latin hymns some of which were translated into other languages in the 19th Century, and also a few Marian hymns - I have to say that some of the latter are of very dubious quality.

The vast majority of hymns today can be used cross-denominationally. In my opinion much of the modern music - penned by both Catholic and protestants - is not at all suitable for mass.

 

[wondrousgnat]

I don’t think ringers work as I am a terrible singer and I sing quite loudly in an effort to get other to sing as well. The idea I was kicking around was trying to get like a “pew choir” were you have all the mumblers, You know the people who sing but really softly, all try to at least sit together somewhere in the congregation. That way you will hopfully give the mumblers more confidence to sing loudly. You could have them meet 5-10min before mass and choose a section to sit in. You can even call it a “ministry” if you want except have no meetings other than the 10min before mass just so they can all sit together. Safety in numbers I guess.

I don’t know, I just wish more people would sing if only to drown out my sorry voice.

You beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing.

 

[tgauchsin]

It may be that some congregrations just do not sing and there is nothing which can be done to force them to sing.

On Sundays our parish has four Masses: Saturday Vigil, way-too-early-for-me Sunday morning, a 9:00am, and a noon Sunday Mass. We attend either the 9:00 or noon Mass. At these two Masses, everyone sings. I always leave Mass feeling refreshed and energetic. I assumed this was the case at all the Masses.

This last weekend, we had to attend the Vigil Mass - and it was a vigil indeed. Same songs, same chior, same priests but it felt more like a wake than a celebration of the Mass. The cantor was up there singing away and the congregration was stone silent. It was ackward for me - to say the least!

I found myself trying to figure out why. Could be a self-fulfilling prophesey - people who don’t like to sign attend the Vigil because they do not have to sign, thus more and more people who don’t like to sign attend the Vigil? Or, it could be for the simple reason that come Saturday evening people are too tired to sign after all the day’s activities? Who knows? I would be curious to find out if there is signing at the way-too-early-for-me Mass.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

“I usually sing unless the song is protestant and the words are inappropriate.”

I see comments like this on many of the threads on music. I do not know what this means. What are Protestant hymns versus Catholic Hymns. What characterizes each? I recognize that some in our hymnals are authored by Luther, or come from another tradition so those are easy. What about others? I really am perplexed.

Many of the protestant hymns of the past and for that fact a lot of worship music written today was done in protest of the Catholic church. Examples are: It is well with my Soul. It is a song with references that they know for sure they are going to heaven. How Great Thou Art sings of the same thing.* Amazing Grace*: same thing. Most protestant hymns are geared to the protestant belief that one has an assurance of salvation when they die and that all of their sins past and present are totally forgiven no matter what they do. I have even heard the song A Mighty Fortress is our God sung in a Catholic church - this was Luther’s marching song, called the Battle Hymn of the Reformation.

Today modern worship music sings of throwing off tradition completely. “I’m saying good bye to religion,” is a phrase in a very famous modern song. There are others and they most all sing of assurance of salvation. There is one modern song that sings about how it is too hard to try to be good and obey God’s laws so they are just going to quit and follow Jesus instead.

Most old protestant hymns and contemporary worship music are based on protestant theology which is based on protesting the Catholic church.

Where I attend on Sunday it is rare to hear a protestant hymn but it does happen. Occassionally there might be a contemporary song but not usually. The previous parish I was at, they were sung very frequently, especially at the Sunday evening Life Teen mass which I only needed to attend twice. First because I had to and the second time because I didn’t realize what happened the first time and thought it was just that way because of the celebration going on at the time.

 

[MrJaundicedEye]

I don’t like to sing when someone is looking at me, it’s embarassing, so I only sing when the priest faces Ad Orientem.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I see various comments on congregations who just do not sing. Perhaps we could collect some ideas on how to encourage singing. I think one way may be some orientation and teaching. Especially in those congregations who have been used to being silent, they may need to know that singing/music is a form of worship. I don’t know if this is to be called catechesis, but almost. It would be good to have the support of the Pastor. Taking time to select music that is singable and not completely out of range for the average singer would be important also. Other thoughts? How about the choir members and directors among us chiming in here.

I have to say, I don’t see this as a problem in the Catholic churches in my area. It seems when they say it is time to sing alot of people pull out the hymn book and sing right along. Not everyone but a lot. I hope that Mass doesn’t become a loud strong worship service where more people are singing the hymns out of the hymnal and ignoring the prayers. That is what it looks like is happening to me. The missals are at the back of the church and the hymnals are in the pews. If you forgot or dont want a missal you can’t follow along with the word of God or prayers. I would rather see people sing along with the Gloria or Lamb of God when sung, or say the prayers out strong and loud like they mean them. Even singing the Holy, Holy, Holy we are singing with the angels and saints in heaven. Can’t get better than that.

I, also am a revert from protestantism and I have to say they have the same problem. At the evangelical church I attended the worship minister would constantly say just what you are saying, “why can’t I get you to sing.” The louder and stronger you sing the more you are worshiping God. The more it is coming from your heart when you sing out. Same thing at the Methodist church I attended for a while. The music leader would constantly be trying to get people to pick up the hymnal and sing. To cover the fact that people weren’t singing they would crank up the volume of the music which became unbearable. I don’t think it is a Catholic thing. I don’t think singing out means you are worshiping God any more than one who isn’t singing. It could be you are just enjoying the rhythm and tempo of the music.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I don’t like to sing when someone is looking at me, it’s embarassing, so I only sing when the priest faces Ad Orientem.

 

[TheMc]

I don’t like to sing when someone is looking at me, it’s embarassing, so I only sing when the priest faces Ad Orientem.

Nice…

 

[ProVobis]

I don’t like to sing when someone is looking at me, it’s embarassing, so I only sing when the priest faces Ad Orientem.

I don’t know. Seems as if some cantors are more hung up on getting people to sing than priests.

 

[Ohana]

Many of the protestant hymns of the past and for that fact a lot of worship music written today was done in protest of the Catholic church. Examples are: It is well with my Soul. It is a song with references that they know for sure they are going to heaven. How Great Thou Art sings of the same thing.* Amazing Grace*: same thing. Most protestant hymns are geared to the protestant belief that one has an assurance of salvation when they die and that all of their sins past and present are totally forgiven no matter what they do. I have even heard the song A Mighty Fortress is our God sung in a Catholic church - this was Luther’s marching song, called the Battle Hymn of the Reformation.

Today modern worship music sings of throwing off tradition completely. “I’m saying good bye to religion,” is a phrase in a very famous modern song. There are others and they most all sing of assurance of salvation. There is one modern song that sings about how it is too hard to try to be good and obey God’s laws so they are just going to quit and follow Jesus instead.

Most old protestant hymns and contemporary worship music are based on protestant theology which is based on protesting the Catholic church.

Where I attend on Sunday it is rare to hear a protestant hymn but it does happen. Occassionally there might be a contemporary song but not usually. The previous parish I was at, they were sung very frequently, especially at the Sunday evening Life Teen mass which I only needed to attend twice. First because I had to and the second time because I didn’t realize what happened the first time and thought it was just that way because of the celebration going on at the time.

Thanks Ruth Catherine. That helps to explain some of the criticism I have seen. I do like “How Great Thou Art” myself, but never put that construction on the verses. I will read them more carefully. Some the others sound like John Lennon’s song, Imagine.
Life Teen Masses are not my cup of tea either, but I am glad that the youngsters like them. It gets them in the door They were pretty successful at our previous parish,

 

[Cat]

Many of the protestant hymns of the past and for that fact a lot of worship music written today was done in protest of the Catholic church. Examples are: It is well with my Soul. It is a song with references that they know for sure they are going to heaven. How Great Thou Art sings of the same thing.* Amazing Grace*: same thing. Most protestant hymns are geared to the protestant belief that one has an assurance of salvation when they die and that all of their sins past and present are totally forgiven no matter what they do. I have even heard the song A Mighty Fortress is our God sung in a Catholic church - this was Luther’s marching song, called the Battle Hymn of the Reformation.

Today modern worship music sings of throwing off tradition completely. “I’m saying good bye to religion,” is a phrase in a very famous modern song. There are others and they most all sing of assurance of salvation. There is one modern song that sings about how it is too hard to try to be good and obey God’s laws so they are just going to quit and follow Jesus instead.

Most old protestant hymns and contemporary worship music are based on protestant theology which is based on protesting the Catholic church.

Where I attend on Sunday it is rare to hear a protestant hymn but it does happen. Occassionally there might be a contemporary song but not usually. The previous parish I was at, they were sung very frequently, especially at the Sunday evening Life Teen mass which I only needed to attend twice. First because I had to and the second time because I didn’t realize what happened the first time and thought it was just that way because of the celebration going on at the time.

I don’t have time to respond to this right now (work), but I think you would do well to re-read the words to “It is Well With My Soul,” and also to look up the circumstances under which Horatio Spafford penned those words.

For those who are too lazy to look it up, his family was on a ship, which sank in a storm. All four of his daughters died, and his wife survived and penned him the words, “Saved alone…” meaning that she was the only one who survived. Spafford also lost his son in a fire. His life was one tragedy after another, yet he still clung to Jesus and said, “It is WELL with my soul.”

I would hope that Catholics could say the same. Catholics, of all Christians, can have assurance that their sins are blotted out, not in part, but in whole, whenever we attend Mass (the absolution prayer) and when we avail ourselves of the beautiful sacrament of Reconciliation. Spafford’s words describe exactly how I feel and the state of my soul after Mass and/or after Confession–“It is WELL with my soul!”

We also have the option of obtaining the Plenary and Partial indulgences. Truly Catholics of all people can say with assurance, “My soul is well.”

I see nothing, absolutely nothing, in the lyrics of this great hymn, that are anti-Catholic. And to imply that Spafford wrote this hymn to protest the Catholic Church is simply not true and is an affront to a good man who wrote a good hymn.

 

[ProVobis]

I see nothing, absolutely nothing, in the lyrics of this great hymn, that are anti-Catholic.

It may be the greatest hymn you ever heard and the hymns may not be anti-Catholic but most have nothing to do with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which we are obligated to attend and, of course, try to focus on.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I don’t have time to respond to this right now (work), but I think you would do well to re-read the words to “It is Well With My Soul,” and also to look up the circumstances under which Horatio Spafford penned those words.

For those who are too lazy to look it up, his family was on a ship, which sank in a storm. All four of his daughters died, and his wife survived and penned him the words, “Saved alone…” meaning that she was the only one who survived. Spafford also lost his son in a fire. His life was one tragedy after another, yet he still clung to Jesus and said, “It is WELL with my soul.”

I would hope that Catholics could say the same. Catholics, of all Christians, can have assurance that their sins are blotted out, not in part, but in whole, whenever we attend Mass (the absolution prayer) and when we avail ourselves of the beautiful sacrament of Reconciliation. Spafford’s words describe exactly how I feel and the state of my soul after Mass and/or after Confession–“It is WELL with my soul!”

We also have the option of obtaining the Plenary and Partial indulgences. Truly Catholics of all people can say with assurance, “My soul is well.”

I see nothing, absolutely nothing, in the lyrics of this great hymn, that are anti-Catholic. And to imply that Spafford wrote this hymn to protest the Catholic Church is simply not true and is an affront to a good man who wrote a good hymn.

I do know the meaning behind this great hymn and I do know the story. I was protestant for many years. And you are right after we attend mass or confession we could say, too, it is well with my soul. After mass and confession there are times I want to rejoice so much and have such a good feeling I could skip down the street knowing my sins are forgiven totally and completely. After being with Jesus in mass I feel the same way. It is a feeling like no other, knowing Jesus forgives us of everything. What is really great is leaving confession and opening the door to the church and walking out to a sun shiny day.

What I was saying about that song is that it was written by a man who was not Catholic but protestant and they believe differently about salvation and confession and mass. As a protestant we were frequently encouraged to sing this song because no matter our state in life, no matter our sufferings, no matter the sins we commit ever, “it is well with my soul.” The song sings of guaranteed heaven no matter what. That includes no matter what I do, say or don’t do, future, past and present. I am sure part of the meaning was belief that he would see his family in heaven some day. Spafford was also Presbyterian, which means he could say “it is well with my soul” because he believed he was one of God’s elect, those God chooses to bestow his salvation upon as compared to those God chooses to withhold his salvation from. This is Calvinist theory.

I am sure Spafford was a great Christian and I don’t believe when he sat down and wrote that song he said now how can I write this and protest the Catholic church but I believe his theology was incorrect when he wrote that song and that is why it is hard for me to sing that song. I know when I leave confession or mass I must continue to obey our Lord and as Saint Joan of Arc prayed ask God to keep me in a state of grace if I am in one and if not to put me in one. As Catholics we need to be constantly be praying for our salvation, our families salvation and those in purgatory.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

Thanks Ruth Catherine. That helps to explain some of the criticism I have seen. I do like “How Great Thou Art” myself, but never put that construction on the verses. I will read them more carefully. Some the others sound like John Lennon’s song, Imagine.
Life Teen Masses are not my cup of tea either, but I am glad that the youngsters like them. It gets them in the door They were pretty successful at our previous parish,

Thanks.

I like the song How Great Thou Art, also. When I see miracles in this world or see the wonders of God’s creation I am inspired to say How Great Thou Art. As an ex-protestant that phrase is ingrained in me and we should look at God’s wonderful creation and see How Great God is. He is awesome to create such a wonderful, awe-inspiring place. At mass we usually skip the last verse, which is where again Catholic belief is different. As you know we believe in purgatory and not everyone goes straight to heaven. The song, penned by Lutheran Pastor Carl Boberg, beautiful as it is reads different:

When Christ shall come,
With shouts of acclamation,
And take me home,
What joy shall fill my heart!
Then I shall bow
In humble adoration
And there proclaim,
“My God, how great Thou art!”

 

[liturgyluver]

We had 3 hymns listed at mass tonight for the feast of All Saints. The mass setting was Victoria’s O Quam Gloriosum which is beautiful (though the choir were a bit shaky). The processional was For All the Saints, the post communion was Who are these like stars appearing, and the recessional Give me the wings of faith to rise. All 3 hymns were penned by protestants but I though they were perfect for All Saints.

As an aside I attended mass at Westminster Cathedral on Saturday night - and it was great. Finally a Catholic church where at least 50% sing enthusiastically. What might have helped was that a new mass setting was being introduced for the first time (the revised St Anne’s mass) and before mass began, Father ran through the music with us. He also said that it was a congregational mass and that he hoped eveyone would join in the congregational responses and the hymns (Worship the King and Soul of my Saviour) - and, by and large, they did.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

We had 3 hymns listed at mass tonight for the feast of All Saints. The mass setting was Victoria’s O Quam Gloriosum which is beautiful (though the choir were a bit shaky). The processional was For All the Saints, the post communion was Who are these like stars appearing, and the recessional Give me the wings of faith to rise. All 3 hymns were penned by protestants but I though they were perfect for All Saints.

As an aside I attended mass at Westminster Cathedral on Saturday night - and it was great. Finally a Catholic church where at least 50% sing enthusiastically. What might have helped was that a new mass setting was being introduced for the first time (the revised St Anne’s mass) and before mass began, Father ran through the music with us. He also said that it was a congregational mass and that he hoped eveyone would join in the congregational responses and the hymns (Worship the King and Soul of my Saviour) - and, by and large, they did.

I don’t know very much about the St. Anne’s mass but I bet it was beautiful. At our parish we sing some of the mass and it is great.

 

[liturgyluver]

I don’t know very much about the St. Anne’s mass but I bet it was beautiful. At our parish we sing some of the mass and it is great.

It was really beautiful and although it was the first time for many, people seemed to grasp it quite quickly.

 

[Castello]

As a society, we no longer sing.

Years ago, people got together in homes and sang. People sang as they worked.

When I was a kid you got in the car, you sang. Get a bunch of kids on a bus, it was sing along to the destination - now, everyone plugs in earbuds and shuts the world out.

Growing up, mom and dad had to make a RULE “no singing at the table”.

Now, if you are not a great singer, we are going to mock you (how great are the ratings for the American Idol tryout shows?)

Start singing at home. Sing with your kids. Sing in the car. Sing at the table (sorry mom).

 

[ProVobis]

When I was a kid you got in the car, you sang. Get a bunch of kids on a bus, it was sing along to the destination - now, everyone plugs in earbuds and shuts the world out.

Guess they ran out of bottles of beer on the wall.