suicide is forbidden in islam

[r.gonzales]

since there are those who continue to insist that suicide bombings are condoned by islam, i thought i would post these very explicit proofs to show otherwise.

suicide by whatever means is forbidden in islam and a sin whose perpetrator earns eternal punishment in the hellfire.

Allah says, “o those who believed, do not eat your wealth between you in falsehood, except that it be a trade according to mutual consent among you. AND DO NOT KILL YOURSELVES. surely, Allah is merciful to you. and whoever does that out of enmity and out of oppression, then we will roast him in fire, and that is easy for Allah.” (4:29-30)

thaabit bin ad-dahhaak narrated that prophet muhammad said, “whoever kills himself with something in the world, he will be punished with it on the day of standing (i.e., judgement day).” (al-bukhaaree 6047 & muslim #176).

aboo hurairah narrated that prophet muhammad said, “whoever threw himself off from a mountain killing himself, then he is in the fire of Hell, falling in it perpetually, residing in it forever. whoever drank poison killing himself, then his poison is in his hand, driking it in the fire of Hell perpetually, residing in it forever. and whoever killed himself with an iron tool, then his iron tool is in his hand, stabbing it into his stomach in the fire of Hell perpetually, residing in it forever.” (al-bukhaaree #5778 & muslim #175).

aboo hurairah also narrated that prophet muhammad said, “the one who strangles himself, strangles himself in the Fire, and the one who stabs himself stabs himself in the Fire.” (al-bukhaaree #1365, this hadeeth is also in the musnad of imam ahmad #9618 and others, and it contains an addition: “and the one who breaks himself breaks himself in the Fire.”).

jundab narrated that prophet muhammad said, “a man had injuries, so he killed himself. then Allah said: ‘My slave rushed to Me by himself (i.e., committed suicide). I have prohibitted Paradise for him.’” (al-bukhaaree #1364 & Muslim #180).

there have also been numerous verdicts and warnings issued by muslim scholars concerning this issue further showing that these types of actions are not from islam, nor are they condoned by it.

 

[George_Waters]

So Islam forbides sucide? Great. Unfortunately, the issue is not suicide, but in the act of killing the perceived enemies of Islam. The term “suicide bomber” was coined by the Western media (More recently the term “homicide bomber” has been used). The Western world sees this as the act of a homicidal psychopath murdering his or her victims. The Muslim world views this as the heroic act of sacrifice in the name of Allah. Nice try, but you are arguing semantics and ignoring the real issue.

 

[Franze]

For many muslims, they´re shahid, and why, you are right and they don´t!

 

[jaydog77]

Too bad so many Muslims disagree with you Gonzalez. Your name implies you are a convert. Perhaps you can go to the mythical land of “Palestine” and talk to Hamas and see what they have to say on the subject.

Islamic juricprudence has laid forth a few core fundamentals of the religion.

1 - Anything done to benefit Islam is permissible (lying, breaking treaties, murder, “suicide” etc)

2 - Dying in battle with the enemies of Islam is the ultimate act of faith and devotion to God, one of the few guarantees of “Paradise” (the “paradise” of 72 virgins…with the 72 mother in laws)

3 - Blowing yourself up to take the lives of the enemies of islam is not suicide, it is no different than dying in battle.

So, killing yourself without the intention to kill Jews, Americans etc is definitly suicide so you are partially right. They will be in hell according to the teachings of Islam. But since our friendly hamas/al qaida/islamic jihad/ human bombs are not committing suicide according to Islam, your points are not applicable.

As J Edgar Hoover said in the movie “Clue”

Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand! (and my personal addition, this kingdom doesn’t have eternal sex as a reward since that isn’t “paradise”, but pornography)

 

[cute2904]

r.gonzales:

since there are those who continue to insist that suicide bombings are condoned by islam, i thought i would post these very explicit proofs to show otherwise.

suicide by whatever means is forbidden in islam and a sin whose perpetrator earns eternal punishment in the hellfire.

Allah says, “o those who believed, do not eat your wealth between you in falsehood, except that it be a trade according to mutual consent among you. AND DO NOT KILL YOURSELVES. surely, Allah is merciful to you. and whoever does that out of enmity and out of oppression, then we will roast him in fire, and that is easy for Allah.” (4:29-30)

thaabit bin ad-dahhaak narrated that prophet muhammad said, “whoever kills himself with something in the world, he will be punished with it on the day of standing (i.e., judgement day).” (al-bukhaaree 6047 & muslim #176).

aboo hurairah narrated that prophet muhammad said, “whoever threw himself off from a mountain killing himself, then he is in the fire of Hell, falling in it perpetually, residing in it forever. whoever drank poison killing himself, then his poison is in his hand, driking it in the fire of Hell perpetually, residing in it forever. and whoever killed himself with an iron tool, then his iron tool is in his hand, stabbing it into his stomach in the fire of Hell perpetually, residing in it forever.” (al-bukhaaree #5778 & muslim #175).

aboo hurairah also narrated that prophet muhammad said, “the one who strangles himself, strangles himself in the Fire, and the one who stabs himself stabs himself in the Fire.” (al-bukhaaree #1365, this hadeeth is also in the musnad of imam ahmad #9618 and others, and it contains an addition: “and the one who breaks himself breaks himself in the Fire.”).

jundab narrated that prophet muhammad said, “a man had injuries, so he killed himself. then Allah said: ‘My slave rushed to Me by himself (i.e., committed suicide). I have prohibitted Paradise for him.’” (al-bukhaaree #1364 & Muslim #180).

there have also been numerous verdicts and warnings issued by muslim scholars concerning this issue further showing that these types of actions are not from islam, nor are they condoned by it.

Same old song… difference from reality though

 

[r.gonzales]

George Waters:

Unfortunately, the issue is not suicide, but in the act of killing the perceived enemies of Islam. The term “suicide bomber” was coined by the Western media (More recently the term “homicide bomber” has been used). The Western world sees this as the act of a homicidal psychopath murdering his or her victims. The Muslim world views this as the heroic act of sacrifice in the name of Allah. Nice try, but you are arguing semantics and ignoring the real issue.

regardless of your accusations and claims here, the fact still remains that the perpetrator of this type of crime is committing suicide in order to inflict damage and loss of life against the so-called enemy. so regardless of what you call it, what i posted to begin this thread still applies to it, regardless of what “the musilm world” views it as. and btw, i am a muslim and do not view it as a heroic act, but as an act of cowardice and ignorance. many of the muslims on this forum would agree as well, effectively rendering your gross generalisation and sweeping comment regarding the muslim world’s view invalid.

the method these bombers use is forbidden in islam, which makes the act a sin. in islam, the ends do not justify the means and for an act of worship to be accepted, it must be carried out according to what islam allows. prophet muhammad said in an authentically reported narration, “whoever does a deed that our affair (i.e., islam) is not upon, then it is rejected.” (reported by al-bukhaaree and muslim). and yes, “jihaad” and all its types are forms of worship.

it is also prohibited to fight and kill innocents and non-combatants in islam, see the verses and hadeeths i quoted in my post here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=865090&postcount=5 which makes these acts prohibited from another angle, not only from the angle of suicide being forbidden.

and as i mentioned, the statements from muslim scholars condemning this horrible act are many, some of which can be read here: fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih004/index.htm

 

[r.gonzales]

jaydog77:

Islamic juricprudence has laid forth a few core fundamentals of the religion.

1 - Anything done to benefit Islam is permissible (lying, breaking treaties, murder, “suicide” etc)

2 - Dying in battle with the enemies of Islam is the ultimate act of faith and devotion to God, one of the few guarantees of “Paradise” (the “paradise” of 72 virgins…with the 72 mother in laws)

3 - Blowing yourself up to take the lives of the enemies of islam is not suicide, it is no different than dying in battle.

So, killing yourself without the intention to kill Jews, Americans etc is definitly suicide so you are partially right. They will be in hell according to the teachings of Islam. But since our friendly hamas/al qaida/islamic jihad/ human bombs are not committing suicide according to Islam, your points are not applicable.

islamic jurisprudence requires scriptural evidences to make them valid. where are your proofs to back up those points?

for argument’s sake, let’s say your points of “islamic” jurisprudence are correct…

1. many of these acts don’t provide any benefit to islam. instead they cause it harm and chase people away that otherwise could have been called to it. it also causes destruction and chaos, which is also not permitted in islam.
2. dying in battle is one of the “ultimate” acts of faith, however, this entails that one actually fight in the face of the enemy. it also entails that there be a legitimate war or battle taking place. jihaad has its conditions and prerequisites, many of which are not present today - regardless of locale, be it palestine (which is a very real place and not mythical at all), kashmir, or other.
3. i’d really like to see your proof of this… and proof is found within the Quran and sunnah, not within the crazed and demented opinions of extremist and deviant groups like hamas and al-qa’idah. intentions of killing the “enemy” don’t change the fact that it’s suicide and forbidden. nothing in the scriptural evidences i posted make this distinction and are general - meaning anyone who intentionally kills themselves, regardless of the intent behind it.

 

[r.gonzales]

cute2904:

Same old song… difference from reality though

it’s really unbefitting for people to speak out of ignorance. either speak upon knowledge or remain silent.

the reality is that islam does not condone these acts. and if you believe otherwise, then you should bring your proof from islam’s scriptures. otherwise, learn how to differentiate between what the religion dictates and what those who claim adherence to it do.

 

[DaveBj]

r.gonzales:

it’s really unbefitting for people to speak out of ignorance. either speak upon knowledge or remain silent.

the reality is that islam does not condone these acts. and if you believe otherwise, then you should bring your proof from islam’s scriptures. otherwise, learn how to differentiate between what the religion dictates and what those who claim adherence to it do.

As long as the “Islam” that does not condone these acts is not the “Islam” that is being followed by the people who are carrying out these acts, it doesn’t matter a hoot whether “Islam” condones or condemns them. The people who are carrying them out will continue to do so, and they will continue to find enough justification in other ayaat to claim that the Qur’an commands them to carry on.

As-salaamu `alaina kullina.

DaveBj

 

[cute2904]

r.gonzales:

it’s really unbefitting for people to speak out of ignorance. either speak upon knowledge or remain silent.

Ignorance again Ignorance again… Kinda boring to hear that, oh fyi I live with the ‘knowledge’ itself, sweetie. No one could ask me to remain silent. Why is it hard for you just to explain best you could rather than tell people ignorant all the time?. You are not getting wiser with such saying anyway.

the reality is that islam does not condone these acts. and if you believe otherwise, then you should bring your proof from islam’s scriptures. otherwise, learn how to differentiate between what the religion dictates and what those who claim adherence to it do.

3:151
We will cast terror into the heart of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

2:191
And slay them wherever ye catch them

2:216
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you.

8:17
It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest ( a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself.

9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Etc…etc…etc…

 

[Edris]

cute2904:

Ignorance again Ignorance again… Kinda boring to hear that, oh fyi I live with the ‘knowledge’ itself, sweetie. No one could ask me to remain silent. Why is it hard for you just to explain best you could rather than tell people ignorant all the time?. You are not getting wiser with such saying anyway.

**Who said you remain silent,   PLEASE SPEAK AND TELL EVERY ONE  your story,  Why did you fled from Chinese Communists who've been hammering the catholics,  to Jakarta (Indonesia)  a muslim country,   because you know that muslims will treet you better than the chinese communists and better than the catholics of Europe.**
 

Peace sister

 

[exoflare]

…and better than the catholics of Europe.

Not too many of those left.

 

[cute2904]

Who said you remain silent, PLEASE SPEAK AND TELL EVERY ONE your story, Why did you fled from Chinese Communists who’ve been hammering the catholics, to Jakarta (Indonesia) a muslim country, because you know that muslims will treet you better than the chinese communists and better than the catholics of Europe.

Peace sister

Xie xie Edris for the shouted you have here . It explains why you so desperate to show us what Islam look like. First of all let me tell you …I mean… let me tell everyone here that Islam was not the ancient religion of the people in indo. It came from the merchants from Arabia, the same story I can tell you also with Chinese as traders. IF I lived in the midldeeast… then your latest sentence could have been correct. At least had I known the situation would be so complicated like this, I would have much grateful if I were somewhere in Europe or somewhere between great wall of China. The most important, Edris, it is not the country I live in. Indo also as good as other country in the world. I love it. My most concern for the oppressing majority towards minority (despite whoever they are, chinese, indian, christian, hindu, budha, ahmaddiya, atheist etc). Its all about Humanitarian, Human Rights. Justness, etc. If you know the story of humanity in Indo for the last 50 years you would not have shouted so big here.

 

[Matt25]

There was a discussion about this at beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=4736&discussionID=456383

And I noticed that this was posted up

" Suicide is not only a sin but is considered one of the enormities (ie major sins). The Reliance of the Traveller relates two hadiths on this subject:

“Of those before you, there was once a wounded man who could not bear it, so he took a knife and cut his arm, and bled until he died. Allah Most High said, ‘My slave has taken his life before I have, so I forbid him paradise’”

“Whoever kills himself with a knife will abide forever in the fire of hell, perpetually stabbing his belly with it. Whoever kills himself with poison will abide forever in the fire of hell, poision in hand, perpetually drinking it”

Suicide generally corresponds with despair which is a denial of the Power of Allah to do anything and borders near disbelief."

Also "*“And spend in the cause of Allah, and destroy not yourselves with your own hands, and do good; surely, Allah loves those who do good.” [2:196]…

*Suicide is forbidden, haraam. In battle, you may be killed by others if you plunge yourself in the thick of battle, but not with your own hands. Stabbing and poisoning oneself, … is sinful. [2:196] as quoted above, makes it clear that using your own hands to kill yourself is forbidden.

Thus, suicide bombing, or suicide flying, or suicide poisoning, or gassing, or injecting, or stabbing, or hanging etc., are all forbidden in Islam as a grievous sin, which a… is punished in the hereafter. "

 

[George_Waters]

You are correct r.gonzales; I should avoid generalizations, my apologies to you. I hope you will be so quick to correct anyone using generalizations. I am glad you see these acts for what they are. Unfortunately, many Muslims do not agree with you or, based on the quotes you provided, the Quran. (I believe you can find sufficient proof of that statement by reading daily news reports so please let’s not argue that point.) Also please remember that Christianity and all Christians have often been blamed for certain acts (such as the crusades) by many Muslims for centuries. I am confident you know I am not (nor is anyone on this forum) responsible for the abuses of the crusades as I am confident you are not responsible for the bombings. I know Muslim organizations are speaking out against such cowardly attacks, but as you and I both know as long as the bombings continue in the name of Islam, all of Islam will be viewed with suspicion. You can tell all of us on this forum that Islam is against suicide, but until all Muslims speak out against suicide bombings, you are preaching to the choir. I hope and pray that you and your way of thinking may prevail in Islam r.gonzales.

 

[Lance]

It matters not what Matt25, Edris, r.gonzales or any other Islamic apologist says here. What matters is what the murdering scum bags who committ these acts think. Do you believe for one moment the hi-jackers on 9/11 thought they were going to hell for what they did? Do you think the woman who blew herself up at the police station in Iraq yesterday thought she was going to hell? No, they thought they were going to heaven because this is what they had been taught by their religious leaders. It is not up to Christianity to change the perception of Islam as a violent religion, it is up to Islam and it’s adherents to do so. People can say Islam is a religion of peace until the cows come home but until the Islamist stop committing most of the acts of terrorism in the world I and most other Christians and Jews are not going to believe it.

 

[r.gonzales]

cute2904:

Ignorance again Ignorance again… Kinda boring to hear that, oh fyi I live with the ‘knowledge’ itself, sweetie. No one could ask me to remain silent. Why is it hard for you just to explain best you could rather than tell people ignorant all the time?. You are not getting wiser with such saying anyway.

we’re not here to entertain. you want entertainment, go to an amusement park or something. as for living with the “knowledge” itself, i wouldn’t exactly consider indonesia the hub of islamic knowledge… in fact, just like the majority of the muslim world today, most of the people who live in that country are ignorant of the religion and its tenets. so, like it or not, i’m going to point out when someone displays ignorance of my religion - whether by you or anyone else.

cute2904:

3:151
2:191
2:216
8:17
9:29
Etc…etc…etc…

etc., etc., etc. … talk about “boring”. same old tell tale verses taken out of context. none of these verses prove that these terrorist acts are condoned by islam or even lend support to them, especially when the entirety of some of these verses are quoted and the context of them taken into consideration.

for example, regarding 3:151 i’ve already posted about this verse and its explanation here: o those who believed, if you obeyed those who disbelieved they would have returned you on your heels and you would have turned over as losers. nay, Allah is your Protector and He is the best of helpers. We will cast fear into the hearts of those who disbelieved because of what they associated with Allah [in worship], for what authority was never releaved. and their abode is the Fire and how evil is the abode of the oppressors. and certainly, Allah had made His promise true to you when you were touching them (i.e., killing them during the battle of uhud) by His permission, until when you lost courage, disputed about the command and disobeyed after what He showed you of what you wanted. from you was whoever desired the wordly affairs and from you was whoever desired the hereafter. then He turned you from them in order to test you and certainly, He had forgiven you and Allah is a possessor of bounty for the believers.fight in Allah’s path, those who fight you and do not transgressnotonly those who fight usthis does not include innocent civilians

 

[r.gonzales]

2:216 plainly states: fighting is ordained upon you while it is disliked to you. and it may be that you dislike something while it is good for you and it may be that you like something while it is evil for you. and Allah knows while you do not know. it’s a fact that jihaad (struggle) and fighting in Allah’s cause has been ordained upon the muslims. it is much easier to sit back and let oppression take place than to stand up and do something about it. where in this verse is there evidence to allow terrorist acts against disbelievers and enemies of islam?

8:17 speaks of those enemies the muslims meet during war, not about just anyone. 8:15-16 reads: o those who believed, when you meet those who disbelieved on a [military] advance then do not turn backs to them. and whoever turns his back to them on that day, except if out of turning to fight (i.e., a strategy of war) or to falls back to a troop [of reinforcements], then he has earned anger from Allah and his abode is hell and the outcome is wretched. so those killed who are mentioned in 8:17 are those enemies who the muslims meet on the battlefield during a time of war. what we witness today of terrorist acts and random bombings is not war nor are cafes and nightclubs battlefields, it’s chaos and spreading corruption on the earth, which is forbidden by Allah.

as for 9:29, which reads: fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor the last day, nor forbid what Allah and His messenger have forbidden, nor proclaim the religion of truth from those who were given the Book, until they give the tax (jizyah) from a hand (i.e., willingly) while they are subdued. again, this verse doesn’t allow for wanton killing of innocents, suicide bombings or any other type of terrorist acts. what is mentioned in this verse pertains to offensive jihaad and the spreading of the muslim empire. as is widespread in the history of the muslim empire’s expansion (particularly during the first couple generations), when the advancing muslim army came to a land, they would invite those they came to to three options: either islam, or payment of the tax (jizyah) or the sword (i.e., fight). currently there is no offensive jihaad to be found on this earth, as none of the conditions and prerequisites for it exist in our present time, one of the most important being, the presence of an ameer (chief) or imam (leader) for the muslim nation.

as for the other posts, i’ll get to some of them shortly, if Allah willed.

and to matt25, thanks for posting that - although the book it was taken from has some serious problems, that portion you quoted from it is correct.

 

[cute2904]

r.gonzales:

we’re not here to entertain. you want entertainment, go to an amusement park or something. as for living with the “knowledge” itself, i wouldn’t exactly consider indonesia the hub of islamic knowledge… in fact, just like the majority of the muslim world today, most of the people who live in that country are ignorant of the religion and its tenets. so, like it or not, i’m going to point out when someone displays ignorance of my religion - whether by you or anyone else.

Never said I want enternainment though, even if I would, maybe not to you muslim. amusement park is much better rather than to hear your statement over and over again about your faith which is quite difference from what we see in real life. I am just ordinary person, I am not an apologist nor do I intend someone to become Christian. The important thing you have to do is if you still want Islam has a good face infront of the people of the world then do something… not just defending, screaming, yelling ignorant to people who opposite you. Always find excuses even though we quoted statements/verses from your books. I want to see your action there and convert and bring back those mislead muslim, those who are doing bad things to the world. if you just screaming all the time here in the forum… the world is never going to be a better place.

… among these limitations and restrictions is that we fight only those who fight us, meaning combantants and aggressors, those who initiated the fighting. this does not include innocent civilians like those targeted by extremists.

con’t…

In the same term I may say, 9/11 was OK as extremists think that America (and its allies) invaded Afghanistan?

 

[r.gonzales]

George Waters:

I believe you can find sufficient proof of that statement by reading daily news reports so please let’s not argue that point.

as i mentioned, islamic jurisprudence is founded and based on religious scripture, which in islam has two sources; the Quran and the authentic sunnah found in verified hadeeths - and both of these are to be understood in the manner that those who conveyed them to us (i.e., prophet muhammad’s companions) understood them. newspapers don’t constitute any type of islamic proof.
George Waters:

until all Muslims speak out against suicide bombings, you are preaching to the choir.

that’s never going to happen because there are muslims who wrongly believe that such things are permitted. and just like christianity, there are a number of different sects that hold varying beliefs that are contrary to what islam stipulates.

a distinction needs to be made between the religion of islam, which is a body of laws and legislations, and muslims, who are those who ascribe themselves to islam, but do not necessarily adhere to its tenets and laws, acting in opposition to them. just as christians who do not adhere to their religion’s foundations and laws are not the criteria for which the religion itself is to be judged, muslims who have deviated from islam’s foundations and laws are not the criteria for which islam is to be judged.

Lance:

It is not up to Christianity to change the perception of Islam as a violent religion, it is up to Islam and it’s adherents to do so.

and what do you think the muslims who come on this forum to defend their religion from attacks and to clear up misconceptions and deceitful lies spread by missionaries hostile to their religion are doing? muslims who are upon the correct understanding and application of their religion are obligated to call others to it - whether they be muslims who have deviated in some shape or form or non-muslims. and this is what many organisations are doing - trying to call and invite people to islam’s correct understanding and application and part of this entails warning from heretic innovations in religion and incorrect understandings.