suicide is forbidden in islam

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Lance:
I could not care less whether Islam forbids suicide or not. The fact is that of all the suicide bombings in the news they are all Muslim. The people who are posting here saying that suicide bombings are not Islamic are in the wrong place. They should be at the mosque where the hate is preached and taught and telling those people that they are wrong. Telling me I am wrong about my beliefs of Islam is not going to change anything since I am not about to strap a bomb to myself and blow up a mosque.
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I take it you never watched the news when the Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers pioneered the use of suicide bombing up to and including the murder of the Prime Minister of India. news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/21/newsid_2504000/2504739.stm

The Tigers are a Hindu grouping.
 
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Lance:
I could not care less whether Islam forbids suicide or not. The fact is that of all the suicide bombings in the news they are all Muslim. The people who are posting here saying that suicide bombings are not Islamic are in the wrong place. They should be at the mosque where the hate is preached and taught and telling those people that they are wrong. Telling me I am wrong about my beliefs of Islam is not going to change anything since I am not about to strap a bomb to myself and blow up a mosque.
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i stand by my earlier observations…

aside from that though, not every mosque in the world has its preachers giving addresses promoting hate and justification for these acts. in fact, i know of many mosques around the world where these things are shunned and people are warned from extremism in religion. so don’t be so ignorant as to think that muslims aren’t trying to steer people away from this type of behaviour. also don’t be so ignorant as to think that those of us that post here trying to clarify and dispell any misconceptions about our religion aren’t doing the same in our daily lives to both muslims and non-muslims that we interact with.
Peter Wright:
Please be so arrogant as to think that your opinion is more important than anyone elses. Please consider this your charity reminder. Thank you.
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Whoa! I just realized the major boo boo in my previous post.

It should have said that if only Jesus and Mary are sinless,all others are sinners, including popes.

Just wanted to correct myself before someone else did. What a goof!
 
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Since suicide is forbidden in Islam can we all agree that today there are at least 3 more souls in hell from the Bali bombings?
 
Keep you pants on Lance…I may actually agree with you here 😃

**Yup three more souls roasting:eek: **
 
If because of our anger, it makes us feel better to say, “there are three more souls burning in the Fire”, then so be it.

I cannot speak for Christianity, but according to Islaam, it is not appropriate for us to say “so and so” is in the Fire or “so and so” is in Paradise.

We can, however, say that certain actions leads to Paradise insha Allaah, and that certain actions earns one a spot in the Fire.

But Allaah knows the heart and the intention of all of us. So although we may know the punishment for willingly doing a particular action, we, as Muslims, cannot say that “so and so” did “such and such action(s)” and he/she will be in the Fire because of it.

Hope this makes sense.
 
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jcaz:
If because of our anger, it makes us feel better to say, “there are three more souls burning in the Fire”, then so be it.

I cannot speak for Christianity, but according to Islaam, it is not appropriate for us to say “so and so” is in the Fire or “so and so” is in Paradise.

We can, however, say that certain actions leads to Paradise insha Allaah, and that certain actions earns one a spot in the Fire.

But Allaah knows the heart and the intention of all of us. So although we may know the punishment for willingly doing a particular action, we, as Muslims, cannot say that “so and so” did “such and such action(s)” and he/she will be in the Fire because of it.

Hope this makes sense.
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Not at all. If the punishment for suicide is eternal damnation why can you not say that someone who is sane and commits suicide is damned?
 
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Lance:
Not at all. If the punishment for suicide is eternal damnation why can you not say that someone who is sane and commits suicide is damned?
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The Catholic Church does not presume to make that judgement in any individual case. Are you saying that everyone who jumped from the WTC on September 11 2001 is in hell? I hope you are not. Can you say that the hi-jackers of September 11 2001 are definitely in hell? John Paul II prayed that God might forgive them zenit.org/english/war/visualizza.phtml?sid=24979 "the Pope asked the faithful to pray “for the eternal rest of the victims, and that God will grant his mercy and pardon to the authors of this terrible terrorist attack.” If the Pope thought their souls might be saved how can you know for certain that they are damned?
 
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Matt25:
The Catholic Church does not presume to make that judgement in any individual case. Are you saying that everyone who jumped from the WTC on September 11 2001 is in hell? I hope you are not. Can you say that the hi-jackers of September 11 2001 are definitely in hell? John Paul II prayed that God might forgive them zenit.org/english/war/visualizza.phtml?sid=24979 "the Pope asked the faithful to pray “for the eternal rest of the victims, and that God will grant his mercy and pardon to the authors of this terrible terrorist attack.” If the Pope thought their souls might be saved how can you know for certain that they are damned?
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I assume that the people who jumped from the twin towers were crazy with fear and thus are not responsible for their actions. I assume that the hi-jackers knew exactly what they were doing and unless they repented at the last second and were truely sorry for what they did that they are in fact burning in hell. I don’t know for a fact that they are in hell but I do know that if they did really repent then I know God would forgive them.
 
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Lance:
I assume that the people who jumped from the twin towers were crazy with fear and thus are not responsible for their actions. I assume that the hi-jackers knew exactly what they were doing and unless they repented at the last second and were truely sorry for what they did that they are in fact burning in hell. I don’t know for a fact that they are in hell but I do know that if they did really repent then I know God would forgive them.
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Isn’t that what jcaz was pretty much saying?
 
Isn’t that what jcaz was pretty much saying?
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That is partially what I am saying.

In Islaam, with regards to the Hereafter, we can make a judgement on actions and the results of those actions, but it is not for us to make judgements on people, even if it may seem clear where this person may end up.

And there are many obvious reasons for this. The one example, given by Lance himself, is that of forgiveness. Perhaps a person repented and then God forgave them.

Another example is that of ignorance. If a person does a bad deed, not knowing that deed is haraam (not permissible), ie. he does it out of ignorance, then Allaah does take that into account, as a person cannot be held accountable for that which they do not know.

Surely, many of these crazed suicide bombers have heard of the teachings of the Quraan and perhaps they just ignore them and “hope” Allaah will forgive them. For these people, if they were aware of the punishment, yet they felt so much despair that they ignored the command of Allaah, then it is said that those people will be in the Hellfire. Similarly, there are surely many, many of these crazed suicide bombers who are very young and completely programmed and used as pawns. Assuming these people have never seen these prohibitions of suicide, but rather, have been programmed into thinking that these are the most praiseworthy of actions, then this would be a case where Allaah would pardon these people, and Allaah is The Forgiver, The Merciful.

And both of these are general statements, based on judging an action. But we cannot judge a person and say “so and so” is definitely in the Fire, or “so and so” is definitely in Heaven, because only Allaah knows the hearts of all of us. Only Allaah knows if we have asked for forgiveness. And only Allaah knows if this request for forgiveness was sincere. And only Allaah knows if we did a sin whilst konwing it was a sin. Making an ultimate judgement on a person’s abode in the Hereafter is only for Allaah, as this is not our place based on our limited knowledge.
 
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jcaz:
If because of our anger, it makes us feel better to say, “there are three more souls burning in the Fire”, then so be it.

I cannot speak for Christianity, but according to Islaam, it is not appropriate for us to say “so and so” is in the Fire or “so and so” is in Paradise.

We can, however, say that certain actions leads to Paradise insha Allaah, and that certain actions earns one a spot in the Fire.

But Allaah knows the heart and the intention of all of us. So although we may know the punishment for willingly doing a particular action, we, as Muslims, cannot say that “so and so” did “such and such action(s)” and he/she will be in the Fire because of it.

Hope this makes sense.
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Been following this. Kept out of it till now.

But, IMHO as long as believers are not able or willing to say that those that willingly kill themselves and others are burning in H*ll. Are not living it up in paradise. Then those that do commit the crimes out of ignorance of the “true” Islam will never stop.

Thus those that do not speak up for the true beliefs will stand in judgement for their refusal to stand for their true religion.

This would be true of Christians and Muslims who just stand by and do nothing but quote scripture.

But, this is just my opinion.
 
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KathleenElsie:
Been following this. Kept out of it till now.

But, IMHO as long as believers are not able or willing to say that those that willingly kill themselves and others are burning in H*ll. Are not living it up in paradise. Then those that do commit the crimes out of ignorance of the “true” Islam will never stop.

Thus those that do not speak up for the true beliefs will stand in judgement for their refusal to stand for their true religion.

This would be true of Christians and Muslims who just stand by and do nothing but quote scripture.

But, this is just my opinion.
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So you think the Holy Father was wrong to pray “for the eternal rest of the victims, and that God will grant his mercy and pardon to the authors of this terrible terrorist attack.”. He should have prayed that God should burn them in Hell for all eternity.

Was Jesus wrong to pray for the forgiveness of those who crucified him?
 
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Matt25:
So you think the Holy Father was wrong to pray “for the eternal rest of the victims, and that God will grant his mercy and pardon to the authors of this terrible terrorist attack.”. He should have prayed that God should burn them in Hell for all eternity.

Was Jesus wrong to pray for the forgiveness of those who crucified him?
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God is just.

We can pray that they were forgiven due to their personal repentance. It is our duty to pray for those that died.
It is not wrong to also let others know what the result of sinning is not in judgement but in love. Infact it is our duty to point this out so that they turn away from sin.
If we ask for forgiveness with our lips and hearts we expect that we will be forgiven. That is why we go to confession to ask for that forgiveness.
 
Kathleen,

You and I seem to be saying and thinking the same thing. Perhaps the confusion between us is simply semantics.

Yes, Muslims must speak out against these crimes (and we do!), and we must do our best to educate our youth. And you are also correct that if we do not educate those, who may be inclined to do these actions, and teach them of the punishment of Allaah for these actions, then those people will continue to do these crimes.

This is why Muslims need to constantly educate ourselves, our families, and our communites. With regards to the “semantics”, again, as Muslims, we do not claim to know the unseen. I believe Catholics hold this belief also. Catholics do not know the unseen and they do not know if a person has repented, and even if that repentance was accepted by their Lord. Further, we do not know if a person does a crime out of ignorance or out of despair, while still knowing the punishment. So because we do not know the unseen, we, as Muslims, say that the punishment of such an action is that they will be in Hell Forever, as the Quraan testifies. But we cannot say, Joe Smith did this crime, and as such, Allaah will punish Joe Smith with this punishment.

This is now the third time, I think, that I have tried to explain this, and I cannot for the life of me undersand any confusion that any Catholic would have with this statement.

God does punish people. He states, according to Catholics, in the Bible, that there are certain punishments for certain things. But it is not for us to make a judgement and say “so and so” is definitely in the Fire because they did such and such action. Again, because we do not know the heart of these people, the “repentence status”, and many other variables. And because we are not privy to this information, it is clear that the judgement lies only with God.
 
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Lance:
Not at all. If the punishment for suicide is eternal damnation why can you not say that someone who is sane and commits suicide is damned?
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because no one knows anyone’s final destination, unless such has been revealed by Allah through His messengers.

people will find out their destinations on the day of judgement and they will then be sent to that destination.

this is one reason. another reason is that a person, regardless of what state he or she dies in, may have a possible excuse with Allah for which Allah will forgive the person.

these are just two of the reasons why in islam it is not correct to say that so and so is will be granted paradise with certainty or so and so is will be punished in hell with certainty.
 
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