Suicide is painless

[john_charles]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 , 2 tour iraq U.S. vet, committed suicide. The discusion following is rather sensative as well as challenging. The Church teaches that suicide is the un-forgivable sin if one is in his right mind when commiting it. The “once saved always saved” point of view is that Sampson committed suicide in his right mind and is in heaven so???..

Any Thoughts

 

[Radical]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 ,

sorry to hear,

The Church teaches that suicide is the un-forgivable sin if one is in his right mind when commiting it.

“in his right mind” is about as subjective as one can get and, I suppose, is available to give some hope for all who have adopted this approach. As for being the “un-forgivable sin”, that is yet another teaching that I reject. God’s hands are not tied in that manner. I don’t see salvation as merely being determined by one’s last act (and how would we even know the poor fellow’s thoughts after he crossed the line of no return?)

The “once saved always saved” point of view is that Sampson committed suicide in his right mind and is in heaven so???..

the once saved always saved approach is yet another teaching that I reject. I don’t see salvation as merely being determined by one act (or brief set of actions) in one’s past

 

[Daizies]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 , 2 tour iraq U.S. vet, committed suicide. The discusion following is rather sensative as well as challenging. The Church teaches that suicide is the un-forgivable sin if one is in his right mind when commiting it. The “once saved always saved” point of view is that Sampson committed suicide in his right mind and is in heaven so???..

Any Thoughts

I’m very sorry to hear about your friend.
From what I understand, the Church teaches that the unforgivable sin is the one un-repented of, not suicide per se.
Really we can’t know if a person is in their right mind or not - a lot of people are very good at masking what is going on inside. The fact that he did 2 tours of duty in Iraq, to me, indicates there is a good chance there was a lot more going on inside his head than anyone knew - and he may not have wanted to burden any of his family and friends with it.
All we can do is pray for him, and pray for God’s mercy - maybe have a Mass said for him.

 

[bobballen_18]

The Catholic Church does not teach that suicide is an unforgivable sin.

 

[starsmurf]

I am so sorry about your friends’ son. I used to date a guy in the military and I know the effect that tours in Iraq and Afghanistan have on the mental health of the troops.

Suicide is no different to any other mortal sin, if we die without repenting we would go to Hell. I heard a priest speak about this subject (important to me as my sponsor’s brother killed himself in front of her). He explained that people who kill themselves out of mental pain could not be considered to be committing sin, as they were not capable of acting with full knowledge and full consent. If you think about it, we would have someone who is suicidal admitted to hospital, and they could be treated against their will because they lack the capacity to consent to treatment. If you can’t consent to medical treatment, you’re certainly not able to consent to mortal sin.

Church teaching would only cover someone like my former English teacher, who jumped off a bridge after being caught seducing 13 year-olds. He almost certainly did that to avoid justice, not because he was in unbearable mental pain. He did have the capacity to sin and was able to understand the consequences of his actions.

I will pray for your friends and their son. I do not believe that he will go to Hell as a result of ending his mental suffering. I am sure that one day, your friends will be reunited with their son in Heaven.

 

[JRKH]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 , 2 tour iraq U.S. vet, committed suicide.

How terrible. God rest his soul.

The discussion following is rather sensitive as well as challenging.

Yes - these things are difficult to come to grips with.

The Church teaches that suicide is the unforgivable sin if one is in his right mind when committing it.

I know of no such teaching. Suicide is considered murder and so is a mortal sin and as such the three requirements of mortal sin apply, grave matter, full knowledge and sufficient consent. Culpability must be assessed on these. Since he has gone to God, only God can do that assessment, we cannot.

Any Thoughts

2 Macc. 12:43-45 teaches us that prayer can be offered for those who have died in sin - even serious sin. I would suggest taking comfort in this…It’s really about all one can do.

Peace
James

 

[Sky_Pilot]

I am so sorry to hear of this loss.
Please know that more knees than mine are bent on your behalf, and of your friend’s son and the family he left behind.
In such difficult moments I hold onto a phrase written in the seminal Western novel, The Virginian, in which the Virginia man quietly observes, “God plays fair if He plays a’tall.”
I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but I can’t help but think the Virginia man was right.

 

[Delaine75]

I just don’t think that someone in their right mind WOULD commit suicide, you know? Even if they seem perfectly okay beforehand, I think that if they reach the point where their only solution is to take their life, there is definitely not something right mentally. Anguish, fear, depression, etc… all of these things can cloud judgment. Suicide isn’t typically something a person goes through when they are thinking clearly.

Having said that, only God can know a person’s true heart at the time this act is committed. And God’s mercy is great. We can trust in God’s mercy for this young man who ended his life, and pray for his soul as well.

Please know that I am praying for all who knew and loved this young man.

 

[Della]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 , 2 tour iraq U.S. vet, committed suicide. The discusion following is rather sensative as well as challenging. The Church teaches that suicide is the un-forgivable sin if one is in his right mind when commiting it. The “once saved always saved” point of view is that Sampson committed suicide in his right mind and is in heaven so? ???..

Any Thoughts

Let me add my condolences at the loss of this young soldier. God rest his troubled heart and soul.

I just wanted to address the idea that all actions in which a person dies knowing that he will die has to be suicide. Samson did not commit suicide, he took out his enemies by sacrificing himself–the actions of a hero. If your soldier had thrown himself ona grenade to save his fellow soldiers we wouldn’t say he committed suicide.

I will remember this poor young man in my prayers and his grieving loved ones.

 

[grannymh]

Never underestimate the power of God to touch a soul in the last moment.

 

[Allegra]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 , 2 tour iraq U.S. vet, committed suicide. The discusion following is rather sensative as well as challenging. The Church teaches that suicide is the un-forgivable sin if one is in his right mind when commiting it. The “once saved always saved” point of view is that Sampson committed suicide in his right mind and is in heaven so???..

Any Thoughts

I’m not aware that the Church teaches suicide is “unforgivable”. Obviously, in many cases, it is “unrepentable” as the person dies before he is able to ask for forgiveness. Because of this, suicide victims were often not allowed a funeral Mass in the past. However, we’ve learned alot about mental health since then and the fact is, we don’t know the state of a person’s soul. If a person is suffering from depression, their culpability for their sin can be substantially diminished, since they aren’t in complete control of their actions. A person who has been through two tours of duty quite possibly suffers from PTS syndrome. You can trust in God’s loving mercy for your friend’s son.

 

[Mystophilus]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 , 2 tour iraq U.S. vet, committed suicide. The discusion following is rather sensative as well as challenging. The Church teaches that suicide is the un-forgivable sin if one is in his right mind when commiting it. The “once saved always saved” point of view is that Sampson committed suicide in his right mind and is in heaven so???..

Would God condemn someone for being unwell? The crucial point in regard to suicide being a mortal sin is “if one is in his right mind when commiting it”, and in how many situations is a person truly in his or her right mind when choosing such a drastic, permanent solution to what is most often a manageable or temporary problem? Ending your life over losing your job, your relationship, or your social reputation is, to be rather blunt, not the action of a sane person, but, instead, the action of someone whose sanity was temporarily overwhelmed by a vicious and occasionally fatal evil called “situational depression”. Particularly because he was a war veteran, one would have to be sure that Sampson was not suffering PTSD, or situational depression arising from the difficulty of readjusting to civilian life, before one could claim that he was at all in his right mind.

So, if the subtext of what you are asking here is “Does the Catholic Church teach that Sampson is damned?”, the simple answer is “No.”

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Never underestimate the power of God to touch a soul in the last moment.

This.

I can’t go into detail from my own personal witness with friends and family who have crossed over, but God works in merciful and mysterious ways at the hour of death.

 

[CalCatholic]

A tragedy has happened in a close friends family as their son age 26 , 2 tour iraq U.S. vet, committed suicide. The discusion following is rather sensative as well as challenging. The Church teaches that suicide is the un-forgivable sin if one is in his right mind when commiting it. The “once saved always saved” point of view is that Sampson committed suicide in his right mind and is in heaven so???..

Any Thoughts

This is a good reminder to all of us, not only to pray for those service members who have died in the wars and those who come home with ‘visible’ physical injuries, but also for those who come home with ‘hidden injuries’! “May our loving God reach out to those soldiers who through no fault of their own, have come home to us with those hidden mental injuries. May he reach out to your friend’s son and all the other victims of war who have taken their own lives, and fill them with his grace and forgiveness, Amen!”

 

[MarySweet]

I would like to believe that God will forgive mentally ill people.
As for painless, never because the pain left behind would be equal to emotional abuse or torture for your loved ones left behind.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I’ve reiterated this story before, but I’ll tell it again as a point of view based on personal experience.

I had an old, wise, prophetic pastor who once said, “I think you’ll be doing cleaning. You won’t like it much and you won’t be doing it for long, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost.”

He also predicted I’d lose the government job I then had, and that I’d become Catholic.

He would have made that prediction circa 1990/91 as he died himself in 1992.

I lost my government job in 1995.

I became Catholic around 1996 or 1997.

I was doing a cleaning job in 2006 for about 4 months, didn’t like it much, and heard about a “ghost”. Apparently the ghost was that of a manager who committed suicide by hanging himself in the basement of old store I was cleaning.

To cut a long story short I contact the local priest circa 2008 and asked for a mass to be said. He said he would, but I kept getting this nagging query as to whether he had. After all I was just a strange voice on the phone with a peculiar story.

But around 2010 I just “happened” to notice an Australian priest on this forum (I think the only one I’ve seen), and he just “happened” to be located in the very same church where I’d rung the original priest, no more than a few hundred metres from the store in question.

So we had a brief exchange of em ails viar the Forum resources, and he assured me he definitely would have a mass said.

I checked the church web site a few months, ago, and he’s since moved somewhere else.

So … If there was a reason for the “Lord wanting me to hear about a ghost”, I first had to lose my job so that I’d even do a clearning job in the first place. Then I had to become Catholic so I’d even think about having a mass said. Then I had to do a cleaning job for a short time, not like it much, and hear about a ghost. Tlhen against all the odds I had to hear about a singular Australian priest on this very forum who just happened to be right where I needed him, at the very time I was having my doubts about a mass being said.

Coincidence? I don’t think so.

My opinion was that this particular suicide was doing his purgatory in the very store where he committed suicide. Since I’ve read somewhere the average Purgatory stay is about 40 years, then he was in that store for somewhere from 40 to 50 years, not much outside the average.

In other words, I don’t know just what God’s judgement is on suicides. But that’s my story, based on experience.

 

[BluesPicker]

I’ve reiterated this story before, but I’ll tell it again as a point of view based on personal experience.

I had an old, wise, prophetic pastor who once said, “I think you’ll be doing cleaning. You won’t like it much and you won’t be doing it for long, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost.”

He also predicted I’d lose the government job I then had, and that I’d become Catholic.

He would have made that prediction circa 1990/91 as he died himself in 1992.

I lost my government job in 1995.

I became Catholic around 1996 or 1997.

I was doing a cleaning job in 2006 for about 4 months, didn’t like it much, and heard about a “ghost”. Apparently the ghost was that of a manager who committed suicide by hanging himself in the basement of old store I was cleaning.

To cut a long story short I contact the local priest circa 2008 and asked for a mass to be said. He said he would, but I kept getting this nagging query as to whether he had. After all I was just a strange voice on the phone with a peculiar story.

But around 2010 I just “happened” to notice an Australian priest on this forum (I think the only one I’ve seen), and he just “happened” to be located in the very same church where I’d rung the original priest, no more than a few hundred metres from the store in question.

So we had a brief exchange of em ails viar the Forum resources, and he assured me he definitely would have a mass said.

I checked the church web site a few months, ago, and he’s since moved somewhere else.

So … If there was a reason for the “Lord wanting me to hear about a ghost”, I first had to lose my job so that I’d even do a clearning job in the first place. Then I had to become Catholic so I’d even think about having a mass said. Then I had to do a cleaning job for a short time, not like it much, and hear about a ghost. Tlhen against all the odds I had to hear about a singular Australian priest on this very forum who just happened to be right where I needed him, at the very time I was having my doubts about a mass being said.

Coincidence? I don’t think so.

My opinion was that this particular suicide was doing his purgatory in the very store where he committed suicide. Since I’ve read somewhere the average Purgatory stay is about 40 years, then he was in that store for somewhere from 40 to 50 years, not much outside the average.

In other words, I don’t know just what God’s judgement is on suicides. But that’s my story, based on experience.

Bob,
Remember prayers can shorten the time in Purgatory. Also their prayers are powerful, the souls in Pugatory for us who are living.

Many Blessings,
BP

 

[john_charles]

Does anyone know what the Catholic Church official stance is regarding suicide and salvation if there is one?

 

[JRKH]

Does anyone know what the Catholic Church official stance is regarding suicide and salvation if there is one?

From the Catechism

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Peace
James

 

[centurionguard]

From the Catechism

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Peace
James

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

I think some who have gone through the experience of very profound traumatic instances may not have full mental faculties in being capable of making right moral decisions.

My first thoughts go towards tragic victims of incest and rape as an example. I’ve been there myself knowing such hardship and being guilty of attempting suicide and I know of others in friendship who have terminated themselves because of such instances.
Its a blessing through the grace of God I found another way out of that chasm of hell even though memories of stigma linger. Others sadly don’t make it…

I’m greatly thankful we have a Merciful Loving God who doesn’t judge as humans judge.