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Suicide of bullied student raises questions for Catholic school
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MaryT777
Guest
What a sad story and tragedy. May this young man rest in peace.
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
I read the article yesterday. It seems they want to blame the school and file a suit.
However, there are "disputed claims from his family that the school did not do enough to stop bullying…there are many unanswered questions…report filed in fall 2015 with New York City’s Administration of Children’s Services from an investigator who said Daniel was failing his classes and engaged in angry outbursts.
According to the report, Daniel said his mother’s drunkenness ‘affects him in everything and makes him angry.’ He denied physical abuse but indicated that his father and his sister would hide him from his mother".
Sad, very sad!
However, there are "disputed claims from his family that the school did not do enough to stop bullying…there are many unanswered questions…report filed in fall 2015 with New York City’s Administration of Children’s Services from an investigator who said Daniel was failing his classes and engaged in angry outbursts.
According to the report, Daniel said his mother’s drunkenness ‘affects him in everything and makes him angry.’ He denied physical abuse but indicated that his father and his sister would hide him from his mother".
Sad, very sad!
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tawny
Guest
Praying for the repose of Daniel’s soul & for his family.
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Irishmom2
Guest
The bullying at school and the child’s home life are two separate issues.
We do not know what the school did to prevent this boy from being bullied. Some schools, Catholic and public, announce a policy and mission statement that they are against bullying, they send their teachers to sensitivity training etc, but it it never really put into practice.
When a bullied child reports it to a teacher, sometimes, he is questioned as if he were the perpetrator, or told to ignore it, or find different friends. Often, the child is left alone to become a target. The other pupils sit by and say nothing for fear they will become the target. The ones hoping to social climb will join in with the bullying, or at least laugh at the bullied child’s expense.
Bullies are careful. They taunt their target when teachers are not around. They do it on the soccer field under the pretense that it is necessary roughness on the field. “Boys will be boys.”
We had experiences with bullying at our Catholic school. Teachers did nothing, instead of speaking to the bully, the target is made to learn “strategies” to cope and the bully is free to target the next victim. Only when it turned physical was anything done.
Bullies glow with the attention it brings them. Some actually said the in school suspension allowed them to miss class. Parents when called in, expressed mock shock to administrators, but word gets back that their child “did nothing wrong and there are two sides to every story.” Only one family contacted us personally to say they were horrified their child was involved in the incident.
My child, eventually decided to be on speaking terms with all of them during high school, but none of them are considered actual friends. Sad to say, my son couldn’t wait to leave that school and everyone in it behind when he graduated.
We do not know what the school did to prevent this boy from being bullied. Some schools, Catholic and public, announce a policy and mission statement that they are against bullying, they send their teachers to sensitivity training etc, but it it never really put into practice.
When a bullied child reports it to a teacher, sometimes, he is questioned as if he were the perpetrator, or told to ignore it, or find different friends. Often, the child is left alone to become a target. The other pupils sit by and say nothing for fear they will become the target. The ones hoping to social climb will join in with the bullying, or at least laugh at the bullied child’s expense.
Bullies are careful. They taunt their target when teachers are not around. They do it on the soccer field under the pretense that it is necessary roughness on the field. “Boys will be boys.”
We had experiences with bullying at our Catholic school. Teachers did nothing, instead of speaking to the bully, the target is made to learn “strategies” to cope and the bully is free to target the next victim. Only when it turned physical was anything done.
Bullies glow with the attention it brings them. Some actually said the in school suspension allowed them to miss class. Parents when called in, expressed mock shock to administrators, but word gets back that their child “did nothing wrong and there are two sides to every story.” Only one family contacted us personally to say they were horrified their child was involved in the incident.
My child, eventually decided to be on speaking terms with all of them during high school, but none of them are considered actual friends. Sad to say, my son couldn’t wait to leave that school and everyone in it behind when he graduated.
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
I don’t think the situation at home and school are two different issues. Usually bullies can scent out already battered kids as they don’t exactly exude self-confidence.
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Irishmom2
Guest
I don’t really like what is implied in that comment actually.
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Hatikvah
Guest
Would that be the oft-expounded idea that bullies participate in their bullying as a form of exercising independence and trying to gain self-esteem? Or something else?
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PraiseChrist
Guest
Coming from someone who was bullied in school, I can say that it was the school’s problem, but I was too scared to tell my parents, and even contemplated/carried out suicide without their knowledge. So though parents may think their child is fine, they neglect what they’re doing in school, who they’re talking to, what sites they’re viewing. If the children of those parents won’t commit suicide, they’ll lose their faith, and/or find pornography.
Warning: Sorry, don’t mean to act strange but though CNA is orthodox, it sometimes has somewhat impure pictures at the right hand part of the page.
Warning: Sorry, don’t mean to act strange but though CNA is orthodox, it sometimes has somewhat impure pictures at the right hand part of the page.
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fladreamer
Guest
Very insighful. But bullies need to learn that it’s never okay to bully anyone, even the ones who look ‘‘damaged’’ or are effectively ‘‘damaged’’.
I’d say in 99% of cases, bullies aren’t that cunning, teachers and staff do get an occasional glimpse, but for a myriad of reasons look the other way.
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Irishmom2
Guest
I do agree with that. I think that is why they pick on the child that is smaller, (less chance of the bully getting hurt) or quieter, sometimes well behaved and polite (the bully views them as a goody two shoes) or sometimes more “religious” (plenty for bullies to pick on there
) or the target just looks different: thin, heavy, pale, dark or foreign.I would venture to say that most times, it does not have anything to do with the child being already battered and lacking self esteem. My son was neither. He was, however, many of the things I mentioned above.
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Irishmom2
Guest
The bullies are the ones that are damaged in my eyes. They are the ones doing something wrong. They are the ones with low enough self esteem that they have to resort to bullying.
Teachers and staff don’t want to deal with the wrath of the bully’s parents so they don’t get involved.
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
What do you think is “implied” here? Every situation is different of course but bullies have a sense of weakness in other kids, otherwise they wouldn’t pick on them. If they are different somehow, the bullies will pounce. In this particular situation, I don’t think a social worker can ignore the home dynamic. Already there was a report on him saying that he was crying and unhappy. I know intimately the dynamics of ganging up because it happened to me more than once. People will kick you when you are down. This is just a rule.
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
I don’t think it is a matter of cunning but sheer animal instinct. There may be low individual self-esteem but there is strength in numbers. That is why children and adults, too, gang up, all the way up to mass movements under dictatorships. I’ve seen and experienced it too many times in my life not to miss its dynamic.
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pianistclare
Guest
Where was there SafeEnvironment training?
VIRTUS anyone?
With all we know and are learning daily about these issues this should have NEVER gotten this far.
I’m sorry to say it, but many schools see fit students as those who parents can write a check that doesn’t bounce.
I know from experience, that many of these school accept kids who have been thrown out of EVERY OTHER SCHOOL they ever attended. They think that they will “convert” “save” “minister” to these kids who can’t behave appropriately. Nope. That’s for serious counseling and intervention. The schools are not equipped or staffed for that. The thing they are interested in, is paying the bills. Fair enough, but please, not ever at the expense of the children/students.
It’s shameful.
I was married to a bully for 25 years. I well know the hurt they can inflict. He’s deceased now, but I still have nightmares about him coming back to terrorize me and my girls.
One just doesn’t “get over” it that easily. IF one thinks that their family can just fix it for them, they don’t understand the horrible skills of bullies/abusers. I can’t tell you how many people said to me after he died:
Why didn’t you ever tell us? We could have helped you!
Nope. We were terrified and beaten down into silence. That’s what happens.
Fear is instilled in you like an appendage. You know in your heart it’s not right, but you are simply powerless to make a move, because of fear.
May this child rest in eternal light and peace.
VIRTUS anyone?
With all we know and are learning daily about these issues this should have NEVER gotten this far.
I’m sorry to say it, but many schools see fit students as those who parents can write a check that doesn’t bounce.
I know from experience, that many of these school accept kids who have been thrown out of EVERY OTHER SCHOOL they ever attended. They think that they will “convert” “save” “minister” to these kids who can’t behave appropriately. Nope. That’s for serious counseling and intervention. The schools are not equipped or staffed for that. The thing they are interested in, is paying the bills. Fair enough, but please, not ever at the expense of the children/students.
It’s shameful.
I was married to a bully for 25 years. I well know the hurt they can inflict. He’s deceased now, but I still have nightmares about him coming back to terrorize me and my girls.
One just doesn’t “get over” it that easily. IF one thinks that their family can just fix it for them, they don’t understand the horrible skills of bullies/abusers. I can’t tell you how many people said to me after he died:
Why didn’t you ever tell us? We could have helped you!
Nope. We were terrified and beaten down into silence. That’s what happens.
Fear is instilled in you like an appendage. You know in your heart it’s not right, but you are simply powerless to make a move, because of fear.
May this child rest in eternal light and peace.
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zamyrabyrd
Guest
On a gut level, I felt this safe-school business was more a scam than anything else.
I will up the ante somewhat, now that you mentioned this happening in families, well, why didn’t ANYONE do ANYTHING about abuse they KNEW that was happening right in our home?
DON’T MAKE WAVES FOLKS! DON’T ROCK THE BOAT!
I have a whole load of history about the do-nothingness of relatives who only gave lip service if they even bothered to do even that.
How is this one for size? My grandmother was slapped by one of her daughters. Did the other two take her in? No. 25 years after she passed away I reminded my aunt (on the other side of the family) about this outrage and she came down on me instead. The reason was their OWN guilty conscience for not doing anything.
KILL THE MESSENGER! SILENCE THE WHISTLE BLOWER!
Oh heck, I know too much about this dynamic.
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KS_Housewife
Guest
Thank you! Catholic school shouldn’t just be school plus mass once a week. At a Catholic school, especially, right and wrong need to be taught. That includes the uncomfortable work of confronting, teaching and disciplining the bully. Bullies do seek out targets which include different kids or kids who are weaker (including emotionally). There is an enhanced animal-like instinct in these people to sniff out vulnerability and trounce it.
A school needs to not take the easy path of dumping avoidance advice on the shoulders of the victim, as though bullies were wild mountain lions roaming near the school bus stop. They need first and foremost to address the bully, even if that means risking gasp the loss of his/her parents’ tuition dollars.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I am female and came from an alcoholic home and divorce, and was bullied I am sure for that reason. I was timid and lacked confidence. My brother, however, became a bully. In those days (50 some years ago) settling the score with the bully was not looked down upon. My bullying stopped when I beat the **** out of the girl who was bullying me, both mentally and physically. (And she came from such a home). I had had enough. My brother’s bullying stopped when my mother found out and intervened–no excuses accepted.
Not every bully or person being bullied comes from such a background, but I am sure it has a lot to do with it from what I have observed over the years.
But nowadays kids may have access to a gun, so the picture is a bit different.
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pensmama87
Guest
I think it depends on the kind of bully.
I was bullied a lot as a child - I stood out because I was the new kid, I loved school, I was quiet and didn’t like to pick on other people. However, on a few occasions I became so desperate to fit in that I did bully other kids. I really regret doing that.
I would imagine that a lot of kids are actually like this, but that said…There are also the "queen bee"s and whatever the male equivalent of that is. When they are adults, they’ll be narcissists and sociopaths. At least in female circles, they tend to run the manipulative game playing and are quite pleased with themselves. There’s nothing “low” about their self-esteem. They don’t properly esteem themselves, because they literally think they are a higher order of being that is entitled to specialized treatment.
When I was a teacher we did trainings on these, and while I don’t agree that bullies should be ignored or allowed to keep on doing what they do, because often times it is absolutely horrible, it did address that really, bullies like this aren’t going to have changes of heart. To minimize the damage they can do, it’s the targets and bystanders (which would include teachers and other adults) who have to change the environment so the bully can’t work effectively.
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