Suicide, where is the line?

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ShynSup

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We all assume suicide is shooting yourself in the head. But look a little bit closer.

People who do not wear the seat belt and die in a crash can be guilty of their death at some point.

People who die of lung cancer and smoked their entire life commit suicide.

People who die because of eating too much fast food.

Up to what point are we reponsable of our health?

I am hurting myself by eating artificial food, with artificial flavours, colorants, smells, conservants.

Should we care about eating healthy? Or will God assume these are hard times and said: " you ate what you could"

We should do everything possible for survaival, for conserving this life God gave us.

If your job is dangerous quit it, if your way back home is dangerous move to another place, God will do the rest right? Divine providence.

Thoughts?
 
ShynSup said:
We all assume suicide is shooting yourself in the head. But look a little bit closer.

People who do not wear the seat belt and die in a crash can be guilty of their death at some point.

People who die of lung cancer and smoked their entire life commit suicide.

People who die because of eating too much fast food.

Up to what point are we reponsable of our health?

I am hurting myself by eating artificial food, with artificial flavours, colorants, smells, conservants.

Should we care about eating healthy? Or will God assume these are hard times and said: " you ate what you could"

We should do everything possible for survaival, for conserving this life God gave us.

If your job is dangerous quit it, if your way back home is dangerous move to another place, God will do the rest right? Divine providence.

Thoughts?
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This thread contradicts your thread about the point of saving a life!
 
ShynSup said:
We all assume suicide is shooting yourself in the head. But look a little bit closer.

People who do not wear the seat belt and die in a crash can be guilty of their death at some point.

People who die of lung cancer and smoked their entire life commit suicide.

People who die because of eating too much fast food.

Up to what point are we reponsable of our health?

I am hurting myself by eating artificial food, with artificial flavours, colorants, smells, conservants.

Should we care about eating healthy? Or will God assume these are hard times and said: " you ate what you could"

We should do everything possible for survaival, for conserving this life God gave us.

If your job is dangerous quit it, if your way back home is dangerous move to another place, God will do the rest right? Divine providence.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Suicide is the direct killing of ones self with deliberation. It may indeed be sinful to act in a way that does not respect your body such as eating badly, smoking or driving without a seat belt. But it would be a different sin, not the sin of suicide.

Not everything risky is sinful, however. Most dangerous jobs are also jobs of service (police, firemen, missionary). The virtue to pursue is prudence, not avoidance.
 
ShynSup said:
We all assume suicide is shooting yourself in the head. But look a little bit closer.

People who do not wear the seat belt and die in a crash can be guilty of their death at some point.

People who die of lung cancer and smoked their entire life commit suicide.

People who die because of eating too much fast food.

Up to what point are we reponsable of our health?

I am hurting myself by eating artificial food, with artificial flavours, colorants, smells, conservants.

Should we care about eating healthy? Or will God assume these are hard times and said: " you ate what you could"

We should do everything possible for survaival, for conserving this life God gave us.

If your job is dangerous quit it, if your way back home is dangerous move to another place, God will do the rest right? Divine providence.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think intention plays some role in this. People who don’t wear seat belts may be foolish but they do not generally do this with the intention to die. People who smoke cigarettes or drink too much alcohol are physically and psychologically addicted but they are not smoking cigarettes or drinking in an effort to die. Even some people who attempt suicide do so not so much with the intent to die but as a cry for help, so this may not be entirely clear-cut. Further, other forms of death that involve self-sacrifice for another individual or a cause may not be considered suicide in the same sense.
 
We are not to **intend **our bodily deaths. Suicide is a matter of intention.

Someone who fails to use a seatbelt, eats unhealthy, etc, is not usually intending to die. Even if their life is shortened to an extent, they are not suicides, nor are they necessarily sinning. We are nowhere commanded to live as healthily as possible; the Church does not pronounce on diet or BMI, etc.

ICXC NIKA
 
Some people say that refusing treatments such as chemotherapy is also a form of suicide.

It is sometimes a gray issue, and I know that the Church many many years ago used to refuse either Catholic funerals or Catholic burial (both?), but now, both are allowed because of a host of extenuating circumstances regarding this act and all the nuances around it.
 
meltzerboy said:
I think intention plays some role in this. People who don’t wear seat belts may be foolish but they do not generally do this with the intention to die. People who smoke cigarettes or drink too much alcohol are physically and psychologically addicted but they are not smoking cigarettes or drinking in an effort to die. Even some people who attempt suicide do so not so much with the intent to die but as a cry for help, so this may not be entirely clear-cut. Further, other forms of death that involve self-sacrifice for another individual or a cause may not be considered suicide in the same sense.
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The intention is not the main thing here, but responsability is.

If you had a gun in your hand, which accidently fires itself, and kills someone, your intention wasnt to kill, but you are still responsable.
 
GEddie said:
We are not to **intend **our bodily deaths. Suicide is a matter of intention.

Someone who fails to use a seatbelt, eats unhealthy, etc, is not usually intending to die. Even if their life is shortened to an extent, they are not suicides, nor are they necessarily sinning. We are nowhere commanded to live as healthily as possible; the Church does not pronounce on diet or BMI, etc.

ICXC NIKA
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We are commanded to protect life tho.

Think smoking is a good way of protecting life? The intention is not the main thing. You are still responsable.
 
ShynSup said:
We are commanded to protect life tho.

Think smoking is a good way of protecting life? The intention is not the main thing. You are still responsable.
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And yet, the Church has not proclaimed smoking to be a sin!

ICXC NIKA
 
Corki said:
Suicide is the direct killing of ones self with deliberation. It may indeed be sinful to act in a way that does not respect your body such as eating badly, smoking or driving without a seat belt. But it would be a different sin, not the sin of suicide.

Not everything risky is sinful, however. Most dangerous jobs are also jobs of service (police, firemen, missionary). The virtue to pursue is prudence, not avoidance.
Click to expand...
I guess you are roght sir. Good answer.

You made a clear differentiation between commiting suicide and the other activitiea, whixh as you well said may be wrong too, but no as suicide.
 
Well, smoking and drinking are vices, the abuse of which can lead to sickness and death, but don’t necessarily lead to either of those. Addictions (to alcohol, drugs, tobacco, and to those soul killing vices such as pornography) I think are now considered to be illnesses.

Was the initial beer one drank at the local brewery the one that lead to the sin of suicide? Not too likely but without that first sip of beer, one might have never fallen into the pit of alcoholism.

We are weak.
 
ShynSup said:
The intention is not the main thing here, but responsability is.

If you had a gun in your hand, which accidently fires itself, and kills someone, your intention wasnt to kill, but you are still responsable.
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But you are not responsible for suicide if you ACCIDENTALLY kill yourself, just as a schizophrenic person who believes they can fly and jumps off a building is said, according to psychological jargon, to have committed accidental suicide. And you may be found guilty in a court of law if you accidentally kill someone else due to your lack of responsibility, but you would most probably not be found guilty of murder.
 
ShynSup said:
But suicide is, and smoking is a way of suiciding, such as drugs are.
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No, it is not. As bad as smoking is, most people who smoke, don’t die from it. So, it can’t be considered to be “suiciding”. The same can be said of most drugs.
 
fencersmother said:
Well, smoking and drinking are vices, the abuse of which can lead to sickness and death, but don’t necessarily lead to either of those. Addictions (to alcohol, drugs, tobacco, and to those soul killing vices such as pornography) I think are now considered to be illnesses.

Was the initial beer one drank at the local brewery the one that lead to the sin of suicide? Not too likely but without that first sip of beer, one might have never fallen into the pit of alcoholism.

We are weak.
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Nah we are not that weak.

No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

1 Corinthians 10:13
 
GEddie said:
We are not to **intend **our bodily deaths. Suicide is a matter of intention.

Someone who fails to use a seatbelt, eats unhealthy, etc, is not usually intending to die. Even if their life is shortened to an extent, they are not suicides, nor are they necessarily sinning. We are nowhere commanded to live as healthily as possible; the Church does not pronounce on diet or BMI, etc.

ICXC NIKA
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Only former Mayor Michael Bloomberg of NYC pronounces on diet and BMI, as well as smoking cigarettes.
 
meltzerboy said:
But you are not responsible for suicide if you ACCIDENTALLY kill yourself, just as a schizophrenic person who believes they can fly and jumps off a building is said, according to psychological jargon, to have committed accidental suicide. And you may be found guilty in a court of law if you accidentally kill someone else due to your lack of responsibility, but you would most probably not be found guilty of murder.
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Indeed.

I think I got an answer:

Just as the story of the boy and the door:

There was once a boy that nailed a door. He then was told to fix it back, and unnail it. But a hole was left. The wound.

Same way with the gun. In the other life you will not pay for murder, but for the guilt, the suffering you caused to the family and familiars.

So smoking is not suicide, but you are still guilty in a way, and will pay for it in some other way. After all, God is perfectly just.
 
ShynSup said:
Indeed.

I think I got an answer:

Just as the story of the boy and the door:

There was once a boy that nailed a door. He then was told to fix it back, and unnail it. But a hole was left. The wound.

Same way with the gun. In the other life you will not pay for murder, but for the guilt, the suffering you caused to the family and familiars.

So smoking is not suicide, but you are still guilty in a way, and will pay for it in some other way. After all, God is perfectly just.
Click to expand...
One may or may not be “guilty in a way” for smoking or other less-than-safe actions, but they are not guilty of suicide.

And accidents are just that: they are accidents *because *of a lack of guilt. Your story is an analogy of an *intentional *act. If a toddler falls against a flimsy table and breaks it, yeah, it’s still broken, but the child is not *guilty *of anything–it’s an accident.
 
St_Francis said:
One may or may not be “guilty in a way” for smoking or other less-than-safe actions, but they are not guilty of suicide.

And accidents are just that: they are accidents *because *of a lack of guilt. Your story is an analogy of an *intentional *act. If a toddler falls against a flimsy table and breaks it, yeah, it’s still broken, but the child is not *guilty *of anything–it’s an accident.
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You still have to pay for the damage done.

For example, the pain caused to the family.
 
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