Suit says priest impregnated teenager

[JReducation]

This kind of stuff makes me physically sick and angry. Why become a priest and then do stuff like this.

How hard most the church already work to try restore some dignity and morale decency into the clergy.

I dont think the diocese should of showed a “blind eye” aswell these people got a duty to fulfill.

The diocese did not look the other way. Go back and read the report. As soon as there was evidence, he was suspended and pulled. Please don’t jump on the band-wagon agains the bishops. When they do something wrong, it’s proper to offer correction. When they do what they promised to do, they should also get credit for it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[StrawberryJam]

The diocese did not look the other way. Go back and read the report. As soon as there was evidence, he was suspended and pulled. Please don’t jump on the band-wagon agains the bishops. When they do something wrong, it’s proper to offer correction. When they do what they promised to do, they should also get credit for it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Not to cause anyone to be upset by asking, I do have a simple question here.
Acting quickly upon “evidence” is a normal procedure or a extraordinary one?

 

[JReducation]

When I was in High School in the 80’s a teacher married a student when she was 18. It was highly likely that they had a relationship prior to the marriage. He was in his late 30’s and had been divorced.

Not a peep from the press, not a peep from anybody…

How old was this Priest…?
The Priest has now changed vocations…he is a Father…pardon the pun….
Who am I to judge…???
They are living together are they married?
Are they going to be?

How old was Mary?

It is wrong from a modern day Pastoral sense, but it is not pedophilia and it is not illegal unless they can prove he had sex prior to her 18th birthday and in some states the age of consent is lower.

I don’t mean to stir up the pot, but the young family needs our prayers now to stay together. To raise that child correctly.

My :twocents: anyway…

I believe that the article says that the priest is now 40. They cannot enter into a valid marriage until he is dispensed. Before that happens, there is no possible way. To attempt marriage would only complicate the moral issue more than it is. They should not be living together at all, until they can be validly married, if that is what they decide to do.

“The priest how now changed vocations.” Actually, he is now both a parent and still Father. He will be a priest until the day he dies. The Church can laicize a deacon, priest or bishop. She does not have the power to erase the sacrament of Holy Orders anymore than she can erase Baptism. There are no such things as ex-priests. There are simply dispensed priests.

The only other avenue is a decree of nullity. You have to prove to a court that the ordination was invalid. This is hard to prove. It is doable, but not easy.

All this being said, the moral law says that father and mother have a moral duty to care for this child. Since the mother is an adult, an immature one at best, but she has a moral duty toward her child. There is always good in all of this. The one good thing here is that they chose to bring this child into the world and not abort her.

“How old was Mary?” If you mean the mother of the Lord, she was between 14 and 16. I don’t get the connection here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Not to cause anyone to be upset by asking, I do have a simple question here.
Acting quickly upon “evidence” is a normal procedure or a extraordinary one?

That is the norm as of 2001 and it was recently reviewed and repeated wtih greater clarity so that everyone knows what to do and what to expect. This is then the norm.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[StrawberryJam]

That is the norm as of 2001 and it was recently reviewed and repeated wtih greater clarity so that everyone knows what to do and what to expect. This is then the norm.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you for answering, and it was helpful to know this.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I believe that the article says that the priest is now 40. They cannot enter into a valid marriage until he is dispensed. Before that happens, there is no possible way. To attempt marriage would only complicate the moral issue more than it is. They should not be living together at all, until they can be validly married, if that is what they decide to do.

“The priest how now changed vocations.” Actually, he is now both a parent and still Father. He will be a priest until the day he dies. The Church can laicize a deacon, priest or bishop. She does not have the power to erase the sacrament of Holy Orders anymore than she can erase Baptism. There are no such things as ex-priests. There are simply dispensed priests.

The only other avenue is a decree of nullity. You have to prove to a court that the ordination was invalid. This is hard to prove. It is doable, but not easy.

All this being said, the moral law says that father and mother have a moral duty to care for this child. Since the mother is an adult, an immature one at best, but she has a moral duty toward her child. There is always good in all of this. The one good thing here is that they chose to bring this child into the world and not abort her.“How old was Mary?” If you mean the mother of the Lord, she was between 14 and 16. I don’t get the connection here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I agree with this. What are the father’s duties toward his child? Does he have any? I don’t mean to be picky, but you put out a statement that seems to be very cloudy about his role if any in this child’s life.

 

[ProVobis]

The only other avenue is a decree of nullity. You have to prove to a court that the ordination was invalid. This is hard to prove. It is doable, but not easy.

I imagine if this indeed happened, then they would have to announce all Masses he ever said, all marriages he performed, and all confessions heard were valid. Otherwise that would really complicate things for others.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

There is always good in all of this. The one good thing here is that they chose to bring this child into the world and not abort her.

Very true…

“How old was Mary?” If you mean the mother of the Lord, she was between 14 and 16. I don’t get the connection here.

My point being that it appears to me that every time a Priest is put on the carpet that the persons age is brought out. I am simply trying to show that humanity looks far differently at girls today then in the past, at least in our country, even though they are physically maturing ever more younger due to hormones and other chemicals, or so some scientist are claiming.

I do not pardon the Priest, but this lawsuit would not be happening if an 18 year old college girl got pregnant by a 50 year old professor. Chances are that child would not survive, but the point being that our society has a double standard.

I think our Priests are doing a great job and although we have a few with human flaws, all in all, they are pretty good. In Jesus day 1 in 12 was bad. I don’t think 1 in 12 is bad today. That may very well be the point of Christ having a betrayer in the inner circle instead of outside of it.

Anyway more rambling thoughts, but I am tired of listening to the lynching mobs, people saying how much more can we take… I recall something like 7 X 7… just an example, but again who am I to judge? I will leave it up to the civil authorities for punishment and pray for those Priests that Satan has gotten to.

 

[CMatt25]

This kind of stuff makes me physically sick and angry. Why become a priest and then do stuff like this.

How hard most the church already work to try restore some dignity and morale decency into the clergy.

I dont think the diocese should of showed a “blind eye” aswell these people got a duty to fulfill.

Why do something like this? I ask myself this everytime such scandal is uncovered in the Church.

And then what frustrates me perhaps even more is we have people always making excuses for them. Bringing up they are subjected to the same willpower as the rest of us. I don’t know about you. I’m not perfect by a long shot. But I have the willpower not to commit a sin like this. And I know not to abuse children. I know not to cover up abuse in cases where bishops have looked the other way. I have no problem exercising my willpower in not doing these grave sins. And I’m not a priest or Apostolic successor proclaiming the sanctity of life to the rest of us.

Then they like to bring up every other field imaginable. Teachers. Baptist ministers and what have you. None of that matters when we are talking about what claims to be the one and only true Church of Christ.

It is my belief it is long past time for people to stop the excuses when it comes to sins like these. And in my view start following Jesus when He told us sheep in the flock, we would know false shepherds by their fruits.

Peace.

 

[Dale_M]

And then what frustrates me perhaps even more is we have people always making excuses for them. Bringing up they are subjected to the same willpower as the rest of us. I don’t know about you. I’m not perfect by a long shot. But I have the willpower not to commit a sin like this.

I don’t think anyone in this thread is making excuses for the priest or the new mother. They both have done, and seem to be doing, wrong.

However, while we can disapprove of what happened and rightly judge those actions immoral, we shouldn’t be passing judgment on the priest or his sexual partner. We can not help him from this distance. Fraternal correction is impossible. There is no reason to point fingers and condemn the individuals. Nothing good comes from it, and its possible that doing so undermines respect for the Church. The priest may have caused scandal, but we may be doing the same by making too much of the situation.

All of us fall short. We may not not commit similar sins, but unless we are saints, we likely are committing other ones. We shouldn’t be throwing stones.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Why do something like this? I ask myself this every time such scandal is uncovered in the Church…

I think most people ask the same thing, and then some remember sin.

And then what frustrates me perhaps even more is we have people always making excuses for them. .

Well I guess that would be me. Humanity is pretty sinful. I wonder what is worse the sex act, an abortion, the Priest living with the mother and Child. Can you judge that for me?

Bringing up they are subjected to the same willpower as the rest of us. I don’t know about you. I’m not perfect by a long shot. But I have the willpower not to commit a sin like this. .

I would never say that as I believe in Satan, and I also believe that although they have the same amount of will power as us that Satan gives them a little more attention then me. After all he can get the faithful to doubt the Church if he is successful.

And I know not to abuse children…

Well are you going to go technical? 18 is not a child. The crime to me is that he was in a position of trust and that was just as bad as Mr. Pres with an Intern, actually I think the Pres was a little worse IMHO, since we have only one Pres and lots of Priests.

I know not to cover up abuse in cases where bishops have looked the other way. .

Well it appears they did not cover it up. They investigated, which is normal then removed him. They can’t really turn it over to the authorities since no proof of a crime exists. She was 18 and not a child at the time her parents had proof.

I have no problem exercising my willpower in not doing these grave sins. And I’m not a priest or Apostolic successor proclaiming the sanctity of life to the rest of us…

Good for you…God Bless You…Have you ever thought about them? If so you are just as guilty…hmm, maybe not according to the secular state, but according to the Church. If you can honestly say you don’t even sin in thought then you truly are a superior Christian and I am jealous of you. Dang one more sin I have to stack on to all the other sins I already have…shoot.

Then they like to bring up every other field imaginable. Teachers. Baptist ministers and what have you. None of that matters when we are talking about what claims to be the one and only true Church of Christ…

Well I really try not to judge, but if I was going to judge I would say that Priest are men and not Angels, so what do I compare a fallen Priest with? Hmmmmm, yep men. That is where I would look.

It is my belief it is long past time for people to stop the excuses when it comes to sins like these. .

No excuses, but I have had enough of the holier then thou…let the secular world deal with the Crimes IF they exist and if not then the Church elders should deal with the confessional and the masses should stay out and worry about their own souls. IMHO

And in my view start following Jesus when He told us sheep in the flock, we would know false shepherds by their fruits…

Yep, and he also said something about rocks…

Peace.

In my very humble opinion the tone of your post was not very peaceful, nor charitable. I would say that it seemed to me to be asking for a pound of flesh and for all dissenters to cease defending sinners and allow the judging to continue. That is how I read it, maybe I am wrong, but I did not see much peace.

*The Priest could have slept with the girl once, and if she got pregnant had the child aborted. No proof, no scandal, hidden and in the dark. The girl was over 18 would that have been a crime? Not unless he had a relationship prior to her 18th Birthday. Would that make you feel better? Not me…he has:

Stayed with the girl and Child.
Acknowledged his actions.
Taken a lot of heat from the secular and the religious world.

He is making lemonade from these lemons he picked. Was he wrong. In my opinion yes, but I won’t judge him on a religious basis. That is God’s perview and the Church elders.

I hope you find Peace with these cases as they will likely never end. Satan gets a big bang for his efforts here, as it at least seems to be demonstrated by your tone.

Then again I have been wrong about many things in my life and I could be wrong about your tone, but that is how I read your post.*

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

I don’t think anyone in this thread is making excuses for the priest or the new mother. They both have done, and seem to be doing, wrong.

However, while we can disapprove of what happened and rightly judge those actions immoral, we shouldn’t be passing judgment on the priest or his sexual partner. We can not help him from this distance. Fraternal correction is impossible. There is no reason to point fingers and condemn the individuals. Nothing good comes from it, and its possible that doing so undermines respect for the Church. The priest may have caused scandal, but we may be doing the same by making too much of the situation.

All of us fall short. We may not not commit similar sins, but unless we are saints, we likely are committing other ones. We shouldn’t be throwing stones.

I agree 100%…

 

[CMatt25]

I don’t think anyone in this thread is making excuses for the priest or the new mother. They both have done, and seem to be doing, wrong.

However, while we can disapprove of what happened and rightly judge those actions immoral, we shouldn’t be passing judgment on the priest or his sexual partner. We can not help him from this distance. Fraternal correction is impossible. There is no reason to point fingers and condemn the individuals. Nothing good comes from it, and its possible that doing so undermines respect for the Church. The priest may have caused scandal, but we may be doing the same by making too much of the situation.

All of us fall short. We may not not commit similar sins, but unless we are saints, we likely are committing other ones. We shouldn’t be throwing stones.

Sorry but I respectfully have to disagree. What undermines respect for the Church are these men who are in leadership roles in the Church. And if they are so worried about respect for the Church they should have thought about that ahead of time.

I am tired of "everyone sins, teachers and Baptist and Presbyterian ministers do it but the big, bad media is out to get the Catholic Church. We’re not talking about those other groups. We’re talking about a Church proclaiming to be the one and only true Church of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Of course we all commit other sins. I miss Mass on a weekday Nov 1 and I’m told I have committed a mortal sin and face hell unless I repent. Preferably to a priest in the confessional or on my death bed.

Sorry but first of all I question if it’s a sin to disobey my bishop and miss Mass on Nov 1 when every diocese in what calls itself the universal Church does not have the same universal requirement.

Secondly, you miss my entire pt. When it comes to abuse I don’t in even the slightest way place a sin like missing Mass on a weekday (if it is one) in the same category as for instance in the case of so called Apostolic successors covering up child abuse when preaching to the rest of us about protecting children. I’m not saying this bishop covered anything up or not. Ya’ll are saying he didn’t and that’s good enough for me unless I learn otherwise. My pt is maybe lets start following Jesus who told us we would know who the true shepherds are by their fruits. You’re welcome to follow who you want. I’m not certain I am going to follow a priest or bishop who engages in these sins. We’ll have to agree to disagree but peace to you and God bless you on your faith walk always.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Some on this thread are questioning the word of the Bishops and Priest on issues of faith. I don’t understand how they get the authority to do this, but then again others have done this in the past. Can we question other Bishops as well? How about the Bishop of Rome? I find it amazing to see such vitriol in between the lines, but then again I guess I should not feel too bad, these people are not the first, nor will they be the last, to disagree with many points of Church teaching. Calvin, Luther each had issues. The Church is constantly under attack from without and from within. If you think about it God has had to deal with these “differences of opinion” is even among his Angels. In any event as a Lutheran trying to become a Catholic, sometimes it is very hard to find a Bishop when you need one, I fully understand why many of these modern Catholics seem to be swimming in the opposite direction, or at least tributaries of the river of the Church teachings. Although dissent seems to be pretty main stream these days, just look how many pro contraception and anti confessional Catholics there are. In any event many of the Church teachings are hard to swallow from my Lutheran background, but with reading and study I am actually finding most of the answers I need to be able to follow with a clear and happy heart, but I guess like a lot of other men and Angels many people seem to like to pick and choose which tenants of the Church to follow or obey. In fact a lot of people I meet that say they are Catholics, seem to me to be actually living the life of Protestants. They go to Church, read some of the bible, contracept, ask for forgiveness alone, attend communion in grave sin and go to Mass when they want and when it is convenient, or at least justify why they missed.

As they rewrite what to obey and not to obey in Church teaching I wonder what would their top ten list look like? Some dissenters want women Bishops as they think less abuse will result. Maybe they have a point, but I think I will continue to follow the teachings of the Church and pray for the fallen.

 

[CMatt25]

I wonder what is worse the sex act, an abortion, the Priest living with the mother and Child. Can you judge that for me?

Yep, and he also said something about rocks… In my very humble opinion the tone of your post was not very peaceful, nor charitable. I would say that it seemed to me to be asking for a pound of flesh and for all dissenters to cease defending sinners and allow the judging to continue. That is how I read it, maybe I am wrong, but I did not see much .

I hope you find Peace with these cases as they will likely never end. Satan gets a big bang for his efforts here, as it at least seems to be demonstrated by your tone.

Then again I have been wrong about many things in my life and I could be wrong about your tone, but that is how I read your post.

If we were going down the path of mortal and venial and which sins are graver, I could state what I believe. But if you already believe everything the Catholic Church says about it, I won’t bother now.

And thank you for your expression of peace which I take as nothing but sincere. But yes I’m sorry to have to say you are wrong about my tone. But that’s ok. Things like that happen in online forums when we are not exactly hearing another’s tone. Perhaps even when I’ve been told I am not a Catholic by people who profess to following every teaching even though the Church says I am. Or I face hell and could not be saved, I was misinterpreting the tone as well. So I’ll try remembering that the next time a rock is thrown at me by a Catholic here on CAF. I do try to turn the other cheek but I only have so many cheeks.

We may have to simply agree to disagre on Church leadership. But indeed my sincere wishes for God’s blessings to you Jeff and indeed peace to you as well.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

We may have to simply agree to disagre on Church leadership. But indeed my sincere wishes for God’s blessings to you Jeff and indeed peace to you as well.

Matt,

Take care… and peace to you as well. I think we are much closer then apart. It is really just a matter of perspective.

God Bless…

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Wow. Bishops need to take a more strict approach on this filth. Zero tolerance policies, automatic expulsion from the priesthood if things like this are proven, etc.

Um, that IS the current policy! If the allegations are true, the Bishop was obviously not FOLLOWING it, so he should be dealt with, as well.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[CMatt25]

Matt,

Take care… and peace to you as well. I think we are much closer then apart. It is really just a matter of perspective.

God Bless…

Thanks Jeff. To you too. And I like to belief most of us are closer than apart. :grouphug:

 

[JReducation]

Well I guess that would be me. Humanity is pretty sinful. I wonder what is worse the sex act, an abortion, the Priest living with the mother and Child. Can you judge that for me?

There is nothing to wonder here. Abortion is the most grave of all the sins on this list. The other sins do not involve murder.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Wow. Bishops need to take a more strict approach on this filth. Zero tolerance policies, automatic expulsion from the priesthood if things like this are proven, etc.

First of all, you cannot strip anyone of their ordination, be he a deacon, priest or bishop. He is ordained forever. At best, the Church can suspend and if the crime warrants it, she can begin the process toward dismissal from the clerical state; but it has to be done according to canon law, not by snapping a finger. Dismissal from the clerical state does not mean that he will no longer be a priest. It simply means that he cannot function as a priest and must live the rest of his life as if he wee a layman. The Church owes justice to the individuals and to the sacrament of Holy Orders. Otherwise, we can also justify a spouse divorcing and remarrying, because the other spouse committed some major sin such as infidelity. We know that this is not possible. We cannot undo sacraments. You cannot undo the priesthood anymore than you can undo the consecration at mass.

Second, the bishop did what was required by law. He suspended the priest and he sent him away, not just transferred him. He put him in a rehab center where he would get some help, if he wanted to avail himself of it. Apparently, he did not. But that’s not the bishop’s faul. That’s his fault.

Third, even when things like this are proven, unless it involves a minor, which then constitutes sexual abuse, canon law does not allow for dismissal without a trial and without the opportunity for contrition and conversion. This case becomes more complex, because there is a baby in the middle. Even if the priest is contrite, that takes care of his sin, but the child also has rights. Those rights have to be addressed. A priest fathering a child, asking for forgiveness and turning his life around is not unheard of in the history of the Church. But the Church has always seen to it that the child’s rights are protected. In this case, the individual does not seem to be interested in conversion. He is living with the mother of his child.

My guess is that his suspension will run its course. When it can no longer be extended, then the dismissal process will begin. If there is a canonical reason for expiditing the dismissal process, I do not know. The article does not give enough information to make that judgment. We have to wait for the bishop to find out and allow him to do what he believes is best for the child and the Church, because they are the too innocents here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF