Suit says priest impregnated teenager

[DOShea]

For those who are greatly upset by seeing this kind of story in the news:

While I empathize with how you feel about it, there has to be a bit of reality injected into the equation. If the expectation is that because some rules get made there will never be another abuse incident, I think that is a very unrealistic expectation. By way of illustration, you would think that after the Rodney King incident there would never be another case of police abusing suspects either, but we continue to see these. Why is that?

Well, for some who are made aware of it, they don’t think it applies to them because they don’t foresee themselves ever falling into that pit. It’s kind of like preaching safe driving to teenagers and getting the “Yeah… I KNOW!” reply. Then in the blink of an eye they find themselves in the very situation they “KNEW,” be they teenage drivers or policeman.

What we see is the sin after the fact. What we don’t see is the human torment of the temptation that leads up to the sin. We don’t know if it was fought against or coddled, or if fought, how hard. All we do know - all of us - is that temptation is strong and capable of swallowing us whole. We can’t expect any other man to be invulnerable to its grip, priest or not.

Think about this for a second… who called that priest to be a priest? Himself? The Bishop? or God? We know it was God, as He established the priesthood and calls whom He pleases, not us. And of course it is He who really does the ordaining, which is why as Br. Jay points out, we can not undo that any more than we can erase a Baptism (for the same reason).

If you read newspapers long enough, you find that there is no group, organization, or collective that is immune to the penetration of scandal or the presence of a scoundrel. The Church is no different here on Earth. Maybe that’s why we don’t actually “do” the Sacraments and hand out grace like it was chocolate bars, but only the outward signs of them. If left in our incapable hands, we’d do stupid things like not give enough grace, hoard some and say we were all out, or judge others who needed more than we do on any given day.

These abuse/scandals are always sad events, certainly no one wants to see the issue dug up and broadcast over and over again, but even if they do there is good reason to not throw faith to the wind because of it, and if for no other reason, that there is nowhere something like this can’t happen. Even the media that gets all excited about these cases has their own problems such as happened to the NY Times a couple years ago with people plagiarizing and inventing stories. A few years before that it happened at the Boston Globe. All newspapers have a zero tolerance policy on this - yet they still happen.

If it is hard for us to look on events like this particular scandal, think how much harder it would be to forgive him if you were one of the girl’s parents. We know if he repents and seeks forgiveness, God will forgive him in a heartbeat, yet for us it can be a real struggle. I think the reason is it’s the same problem as with temptation; we just can’t seem to let go.

Maybe a better solution than lamenting how embarrassing these events are, it would be better to focus on forgiving him in our own hearts and trust that God hasn’t fallen asleep but is still in control.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

There is nothing to wonder here. Abortion is the most grave of all the sins on this list. The other sins do not involve murder.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

But can you Judge?

 

[JReducation]

But can you Judge?

We can judge the gravity of each sin. Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty that abortion is the most grave of them. This has been infallibly stated by Pope John Paul II in Evangelium Vitae.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

For those who are greatly upset by seeing this kind of story in the news:

While I empathize with how you feel about it, there has to be a bit of reality injected into the equation. If the expectation is that because some rules get made there will never be another abuse incident, I think that is a very unrealistic expectation. By way of illustration, you would think that after the Rodney King incident there would never be another case of police abusing suspects either, but we continue to see these. Why is that?

Well, for some who are made aware of it, they don’t think it applies to them because they don’t foresee themselves ever falling into that pit. It’s kind of like preaching safe driving to teenagers and getting the “Yeah… I KNOW!” reply. Then in the blink of an eye they find themselves in the very situation they “KNEW,” be they teenage drivers or policeman.

What we see is the sin after the fact. What we don’t see is the human torment of the temptation that leads up to the sin. We don’t know if it was fought against or coddled, or if fought, how hard. All we do know - all of us - is that temptation is strong and capable of swallowing us whole. We can’t expect any other man to be invulnerable to its grip, priest or not.

Think about this for a second… who called that priest to be a priest? Himself? The Bishop? or God? We know it was God, as He established the priesthood and calls whom He pleases, not us. And of course it is He who really does the ordaining, which is why as Br. Jay points out, we can not undo that any more than we can erase a Baptism (for the same reason).

If you read newspapers long enough, you find that there is no group, organization, or collective that is immune to the penetration of scandal or the presence of a scoundrel. The Church is no different here on Earth. Maybe that’s why we don’t actually “do” the Sacraments and hand out grace like it was chocolate bars, but only the outward signs of them. If left in our incapable hands, we’d do stupid things like not give enough grace, hoard some and say we were all out, or judge others who needed more than we do on any given day.

These abuse/scandals are always sad events, certainly no one wants to see the issue dug up and broadcast over and over again, but even if they do there is good reason to not throw faith to the wind because of it, and if for no other reason, that there is nowhere something like this can’t happen. Even the media that gets all excited about these cases has their own problems such as happened to the NY Times a couple years ago with people plagiarizing and inventing stories. A few years before that it happened at the Boston Globe. All newspapers have a zero tolerance policy on this - yet they still happen.

If it is hard for us to look on events like this particular scandal, think how much harder it would be to forgive him if you were one of the girl’s parents. We know if he repents and seeks forgiveness, God will forgive him in a heartbeat, yet for us it can be a real struggle. I think the reason is it’s the same problem as with temptation; we just can’t seem to let go.

Maybe a better solution than lamenting how embarrassing these events are, it would be better to focus on forgiving him in our own hearts and trust that God hasn’t fallen asleep but is still in control.

I’ll just add one more idea here. There were only two people who did not have Original Sin, Mary and John the Baptist and neither were called to the priesthood or the religious life. The rest of us have to muddle along as best we can and hope that we will be faithful.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[sidbrown]

But I don’t see the bishop or the school doing anything wrong.

According to the article:
“Her parents began to suspect a relationship and reported their concerns to administrators at Central Catholic, “but were told their suspicions were unfounded and that nothing could be done to separate [the teenager] and Father Bonilla because he was her spiritual adviser and/or counselor,” according to the suit.”

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

We can judge the gravity of each sin. Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty that abortion is the most grave of them. This has been infallibly stated by Pope John Paul II in Evangelium Vitae.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

But the context of all of my answers on this thread is can you judge their heart? I can’t I am not God and simply put who knows if they are guilty?

IMHO I don’t even know if I would make a good jurist, because I would have a hard time separating the civil from religious obligations I would be serving.

In my heart I know the death penalty is wrong, but in this case I might want it. Then again convicting a 26 year priest for abusing a 16 or 17 year old girl would be hard. Much easier to do so with a 45 year old because it appears that they are a dirty old man.

To claim that a 30 year old and a 39 year old should not have a relationship is pretty hard to do, and although I know that Priests are not supposed to have these relationships it is far less severe then abortion or killing or taking the wealth of a retired person. If the Priest intends on giving up his collar for this relationship.

In my opinion it is wrong to try and hold double standards. Angels have fallen, Adam fell, Priests will fall. I will not allow you nor anybody else to force me to judge the guilt or innocence of a person. Can I say that killing is worse then lying? That depends are we talking about civil or religious law.

If a man is lying about taking the money of an older couple that will leave them destitute and shorten their lives and we know it, but can’t prove it I am not so certain that this crime is not worse then hanging Todo or Saddam Hussein? Then again I suppose you can judge it, I don’t want to as this judging has ramifications on life or death and in that case we are acting as God. If you had to sit on at a trial whereby a guilty verdict meant death, and not guilty meant freedom and you were sure that the individual had committed the crime of, Lying or Stealing, or had an abortion, or killed someone in a DUI, or killed someone in a bank robbery how would you judge?

Is murder murder? Is some worse then others? Is stealing someones possession to the point where they will later die do to lack of medicine as bad as killing someone in your car. What about if your tires were bad because you failed to change them because you had no money? What if the reason you had no money was because your a drug addict? What if it is because you had a sick child and used all your money for doctors?

Go ahead and judge I don’t want to, however if forced to do so I would wait until after the trial to declare they are guilty and then I would caveat that and say they are guilty according to mans law because it is mans law that is judging, not God.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

I’ll just add one more idea here. There were only two people who did not have Original Sin, Mary and John the Baptist and neither were called to the priesthood or the religious life. The rest of us have to muddle along as best we can and hope that we will be faithful.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Was Christ fully human?

 

[Puddin317]

Hello all,

I actually live in the Diocese and know Fr. Bonilla. It’s been in our local papers and of course the gossip abounds. Yes, what Fr. Bonilla did was wrong, he broke his promises. But, the parents filed suit, not the young woman. Obviously, since she is living with him and continued the relationship after it was found out, I don’t think she’s on board with the suit at all.

My question is, they are blaming everyone they can (and those with the deepest pockets), but taking no responsibility as parents. They allowed a 40 year old man (priest or not) to “counsel” their troubled daughter, in the basement of their home, alone. What the heck is up with that? If my daughter needed counseling, it would not go on in the basement, alone. At the kitchen table with me sitting on the deck with the sliding door so I could see everything but not hear, maybe. If they got no where with the school - why did they allow him to keep seeing her? They didn’t have to let him in their home. They could have stopped it themselves and protected their daughter. Instead of stopping the behavior, they set up a videocamara to get their proof?? Come on.

I don’t see this as “clergy abuse,” but more of a love affair since the girl was of age, albeit 17 when the counseling began, but really a 17 year old girl is not really a child.

It’s frustrating too because with all the precautions the church takes to guard against this kind of behavior, Fr. Bonilla AND the girls parents allowed for those precautions to be set aside and then this happened. If the rules in place were followed, i.e., counseling at the school, in the office, and not in the basement of their home, the outcome surely would have been different I hope.

So now the CC gets knocked down again and has to take all the blame?? The important thing now is there is a child invovled and it seems as though Fr. B and the young girl are trying to care for that child - that’s the most important thing right now.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

hello all,

i actually live in the diocese and know fr. Bonilla. It’s been in our local papers and of course the gossip abounds. Yes, what fr. Bonilla did was wrong, he broke his promises. But, the parents filed suit, not the young woman. Obviously, since she is living with him and continued the relationship after it was found out, i don’t think she’s on board with the suit at all.

My question is, they are blaming everyone they can (and those with the deepest pockets), but taking no responsibility as parents. They allowed a 40 year old man (priest or not) to “counsel” their troubled daughter, in the basement of their home, alone. What the heck is up with that? If my daughter needed counseling, it would not go on in the basement, alone. At the kitchen table with me sitting on the deck with the sliding door so i could see everything but not hear, maybe. If they got no where with the school - why did they allow him to keep seeing her? They didn’t have to let him in their home. They could have stopped it themselves and protected their daughter. Instead of stopping the behavior, they set up a videocamara to get their proof?? Come on.

I don’t see this as “clergy abuse,” but more of a love affair since the girl was of age, albeit 17 when the counseling began, but really a 17 year old girl is not really a child.

It’s frustrating too because with all the precautions the church takes to guard against this kind of behavior, fr. Bonilla and the girls parents allowed for those precautions to be set aside and then this happened. If the rules in place were followed, i.e., counseling at the school, in the office, and not in the basement of their home, the outcome surely would have been different i hope.

So now the cc gets knocked down again and has to take all the blame?? The important thing now is there is a child invovled and it seems as though fr. B and the young girl are trying to care for that child - that’s the most important thing right now.

well put…

 

[JReducation]

Was Christ fully human?

Yes, Christ is fully human. The hypostatic union in the union of two natures: human and divine, in one person, but WITHOUT blending. The one nature has no effect on the other. Therefore, Jesus is able to be fully human and fully divine, without any influence between the natures. However, his circumstance is very different from that of Mary and John the Baptist. Christ does not need redemption. Mary and John did. Mary and John are both redeemed from sin, Mary before she is conceived and John after his conception, before his birth.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[OriginalJS]

There probably isn’t much doubt that the priest impregnated the girl. But, there are some points that make this cynic raise an eyebrow. If the parents suspected that the couple was having sex in the basement, why would they permit them to meet there alone? Why would they even permit the priest in the house if that is what they believed? The photograph depicts a good-looking virile young (I’m old) man in his forties. What kind of conscious parent doesn’t know what can happen under such circumstances? And, as for the diocese, after all the sad experience of clergy sexual abuse of the young, given any intimation that a priest and a seventeen year old girl were spending time alone together in a basement and there was even the slightest suspicion of immoral conduct, the only reasonable course would be to immediately limit such contact - not sit back and wait for a videotape. My impression is that a lot of facts are missing here. The lawyer will likely have a field day with this and it will cost real dollars to get this resolved.

 

[JReducation]

There probably isn’t much doubt that the priest impregnated the girl. But, there are some points that make this cynic raise an eyebrow. If the parents suspected that the couple was having sex in the basement, why would they permit them to meet there alone? Why would they even permit the priest in the house if that is what they believed? The photograph depicts a good-looking virile young (I’m old) man in his forties. What kind of conscious parent doesn’t know what can happen under such circumstances? And, as for the diocese, after all the sad experience of clergy sexual abuse of the young, given any intimation that a priest and a seventeen year old girl were spending time alone together in a basement and there was even the slightest suspicion of immoral conduct, the only reasonable course would be to immediately limit such contact - not sit back and wait for a videotape. My impression is that a lot of facts are missing here. The lawyer will likely have a field day with this and it will cost real dollars to get this resolved.

Why is it so difficult for the laity to understand that a diocese or a religious order is bound by the same rules of law as the state? Everyone wants tis bishop to pull this man, because someone complains that he’s having sex with a their teenager, without any proof. It does not work that way. Church law does not allow this. It is immoral to violate human rights. The person is innocent until proven guilty. The Church cannot do anything different. Let’s just accept this. It is moral law and it cannot be changed.

You may some some good points about the parents. How can any parent who suspects that any adult and their teenager are having sex, allow the two to be together unsuperfised in their basement? Where is their common sense?

Finally, there is the fact that the bishop did pull the priest when the proof was presented. That is the moral law. He complied. Please, for God’s sake, let’s stop demanding that the Church violate the rights of her priests when when we would jump and vile civil suits against anyone who violated our human rights. Priests do not lose their human rights, because they are ordained.

Please don’t give me the “we hold them to a higher standard.” We seem to be holding to a higher standard some people. When that happens, it’s not a higher standard, it is discrimination. I also hod the President to a higher standard, but the most pro-abortion candidate was elected with Catholic votes, the same Catholics who want to hang a priest for having sex with a teenager looked the other way as our nation elected the most pro-murder candidate to ever hold the office of the Presidency.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[sidbrown]

Please don’t give me the “we hold them to a higher standard.” We seem to be holding to a higher standard some people.

But isn’t a Catholic priest another Christ? Why would it not be expected to hold another Christ to a higher standard ?

 

[ConstantineTG]

But isn’t a Catholic priest another Christ? Why would it not be expected to hold another Christ to a higher standard ?

No they are not. They act in persona of Christ, but is not another Christ. There is only one Christ.

Priests are regular humans, like us.

 

[sidbrown]

No they are not. They act in persona of Christ, but is not another Christ. There is only one Christ.

Priests are regular humans, like us.

I thought that a Catholic priest was an alter Christus, another Christ?
Would you say then that the following articles are wrong in this?
osv.com/tabid/7636/itemid/5748/Priest-Alter-Christus.aspx
romancatholicidentity.com/2010/02/priest-is-alter-christus-bridging-human.html
And Discover how one seminary receives a man and prepares him for his transformation into an Alter Christus, “Another Christ” for the glory of God and needs of souls:
See: catholic.org/prwire/headline.php?ID=9272&wf=rsscol

newliturgicalmovement.org/2010/09/fssp-release-vocational-dvd.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheNewLiturgicalMovement+%28The+New+Liturgical+Movement%29

In a letter from the head of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, they were urged to “continue without fear on the path of holiness, unity and communion.”
The congregation’s prefect, Cardinal Ivan Dias, sent the letter to Chinese Catholic bishops and priests on July 5.
The secretary of the department, Archbishop Robert Sarah, also signed the message, which was published by the congregation’s news agency Fides on Thursday.
The cardinal prefect encouraged Chinese clergy in their duties “as shepherds of the flock,” reminding them of Jesus’ call for priests to be “not servants, but friends.”
As an “alter Christus” on Earth……

clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2010/07/vatican-prefect-encourages-chinese.html
etc., etc.

 

[JReducation]

I can see how this becomes problematic in the translation. “Alter Christus” means to act in Christ’s name and place, such as at the celebration of the sacraments. For example, when the priest says “I absolve you” instead of “Jesus absolves you” it is because that is Christ doing the speaking.

When speaking about his daily life and activities, the priest is called to be Christ to others just as much as everyone else. Two people who understood this concept and took it to heart were Mother Teresa and Francis of Assisi. History has “awarded” Francis the titles of: Mirror of Perfection, The Perfect Immitation of Christ, The Perfect Christian. It will probably do the same for Mother as time passes. We are all called to become Mirrors of Perfection, nost just a priest.

Finally, let us not take the order of the priesthood out of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The presbyter is the second order of that sacrament. However, how often do we hear people make the same demands or place the same expectations on a deacon who is also an ordained man?

Do you see how we can inadvertantly dump many expectations on one member of the clerical state and not on all? We don’t seem to show as much concern if a religious brother falls from grace either.

These discrepancies lead me to wonder if we have not gone to extremes. On the one side, thee are those who have no expectations and anything goes under the pretext that we are all human. On the other side, there are those who have exalted the priest beyond all other mortals to the point that without realizing it, we we reduce the dignity of others by not holding them to the same standards. It’s almost as if we were saying that if a deacon or a brother were to do this, it’s not as important, because they’re not priests or they’re JUST deacons or JUST brothers.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[sidbrown]

I can see how this becomes problematic in the translation. “Alter Christus” means to act in Christ’s name and place, such as at the celebration of the sacraments. For example, when the priest says “I absolve you” instead of “Jesus absolves you” it is because that is Christ doing the speaking.

When speaking about his daily life and activities, the priest is called to be Christ to others just as much as everyone else. Two people who understood this concept and took it to heart were Mother Teresa and Francis of Assisi. History has “awarded” Francis the titles of: Mirror of Perfection, The Perfect Immitation of Christ, The Perfect Christian. It will probably do the same for Mother as time passes. We are all called to become Mirrors of Perfection, nost just a priest.

Finally, let us not take the order of the priesthood out of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The presbyter is the second order of that sacrament. However, how often do we hear people make the same demands or place the same expectations on a deacon who is also an ordained man?

Do you see how we can inadvertantly dump many expectations on one member of the clerical state and not on all? We don’t seem to show as much concern if a religious brother falls from grace either.

These discrepancies lead me to wonder if we have not gone to extremes. On the one side, thee are those who have no expectations and anything goes under the pretext that we are all human. On the other side, there are those who have exalted the priest beyond all other mortals to the point that without realizing it, we we reduce the dignity of others by not holding them to the same standards. It’s almost as if we were saying that if a deacon or a brother were to do this, it’s not as important, because they’re not priests or they’re JUST deacons or JUST brothers.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

The Catholic priest is indeed another Christ, or alter Christus, as stated in the links given above and as taught by the Church. The Catholic priest has the power to absolve a penitent from his sins. He has the power to call upon Almighty God to have His Divine Son come down from Heaven and be present on the altar, Body, Blood. Soul, and Divinity at every Sacrifice of the Mass under the appearances of Bread and Wine. As far as I know, neither an ordained deacon, nor a Catholic religious Brother has this power.

 

[JReducation]

The Catholic priest is indeed another Christ, or alter Christus, as stated in the links given above and as taught by the Church. The Catholic priest has the power to absolve a penitent from his sins. He has the power to call upon Almighty God to have His Divine Son come down from Heaven and be present on the altar, Body, Blood. Soul, and Divinity at every Sacrifice of the Mass under the appearances of Bread and Wine. As far as I know, neither an ordained deacon, nor a Catholic religious Brother has this power.

No one has disagreed with the power of the priesthood. The point is that the person who is a priest cannot be looked at in extremes.

On the one extreme there is the tendency to allow everything because we are all human and humans make mistakes.

On the other extreme there is the tendency to elevate that person to a plane where we see everyone else beneath that. In this case, the danger is that we take away dignity from others. One way of stripping others of their dignity is to strip them of their moral responsibilities.

When it comes to moral responsibilities, all people must be accountable, not some more than others. We are accountable for different things, each according to his state in life, but all are accountable.

The tendency here is to be shocked because this was a priest. The truth is that it is equally shocking, if this werre a deacon or a brother. The moral obligation is the same. We’re not talking about sacramental power here. We’re talking about moral duty.

Let’s take two ordained men: a deacon and a priest. Does one have more of the Sacrament of Holy Orders than the other? No. They belong to different orders within the same sacrament. The moral duty of the ordained, be he a deacon, priest or bishop is the same in this instance.

In fact, since we’re talking about a priest who made a promise of celibacy, his moral failure is in two arenas:

1. He is bound to chastity, as are all men and women.
2. He is bound to celibacy, by virtue of his promise.

He has violated both.

If this were a married man, the moral consequences would be even more grave.

1. He is bound to chastity, as are all men and women.
2. He is bound to his marriage vows.

Now we add another grave matter. The marriage vows supercede the promise of celibacy. A vow is much more serious than a promise, even if it is the promise of celibacy. Why do you think that the Church can dispense with celibacy, but cannot dispense marriage vows? You cannot undo marriage vows. The Church does not have that power.

These are just some examples of how we distort the moral issue, because we focus on the sacramental power and lose site of the duties of the person.

Just an aside, there are brothers who are ordained priests, but they do not go by Father, because they are not allowed to do so. You have some on these fora.

The combinations for males can be very interesting.

brother + priest
brother + deacon
married + priest
married + deacon
religious + priest
religious + deacon
brother
priest

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[sidbrown]

Please don’t give me the “we hold them to a higher standard.” We seem to be holding to a higher standard some people.

According to St. John Vianney:
“Oh how great is the priest! . . . If he realized what he is, he would die . . . God obeys him: he utters a few words and the Lord descends from Heaven at his voice, to be contained within a small host. Without the sacrament of Holy Orders, we would not have the Lord. Who put him there in that tabernacle? The priest. Who welcomed your soul at the beginning of life? The priest. Who feeds your soul and gives it strength for the journey? The priest. Who will prepare it to appear before God, bathing it one last time in the blood of Jesus Christ? The priest – always the priest. And if the soul should happen to die (as a result of sin) who will raise it up, who will restore its calm and peace? Again the priest. After God, the priest is everything! Only in heaven will he fully realize what he is.”
It seems to me like with these great privileges bestowed on a Catholic priest, also would come a corresponding responsiblity not to abuse his position as another Christ or alter Christus.

 

[StrawberryJam]

According to St. John Vianney:
“Oh how great is the priest! . . . If he realized what he is, he would die . . . God obeys him: he utters a few words and the Lord descends from Heaven at his voice, to be contained within a small host. Without the sacrament of Holy Orders, we would not have the Lord. Who put him there in that tabernacle? The priest. Who welcomed your soul at the beginning of life? The priest. Who feeds your soul and gives it strength for the journey? The priest. Who will prepare it to appear before God, bathing it one last time in the blood of Jesus Christ? The priest – always the priest. And if the soul should happen to die (as a result of sin) who will raise it up, who will restore its calm and peace? Again the priest. After God, the priest is everything! Only in heaven will he fully realize what he is.”
**It seems to me like with these great privileges bestowed on a Catholic priest, also would come a corresponding responsiblity **not to abuse his position as another Christ or alter Christus.

agreed.