Summorum Pontificum Opinion

[leonhardprintz]

Actually, at the parish level, it is far from perfect. But at the Benedictine monastery, I’m willing to make the 35 minute drive every Sunday (plus Wednesdays when I volunteer at the abbey library as assistant librarian) because the liturgy is just about as perfect as you can get; sometimes I can perceive minor mistakes in the chant, but for someone who didn’t know chant they wouldn’t be able to tell. Just yesterday at Lauds I heard someone go off the melody for the psalm mode (accent on the wrong syllable) during Lauds, I looked up and sure enough a monk was on his knees making satisfaction for the mistake. They are, after all, human.

I wish I had the luxury of being able to attend different masses within a thirty minute drive. Again, it sounds heavenly, and its nice to know there’s a little pocket out there somewhere.

I do have to say though, at least with respect to music, I hear a lot of complaining around these parts, and in many cases the complaints are understandable because the music Really Is That Bad

Thank you for that acknowledgement, I knew you believed it, but its nice to hear it anyway.

Thankfully here we were spared. No music is better than bad music they say. For us it was just parish leaders going “off script”.

Instead of complaining though,

Touché, this is also a reason why stopped coming here. I found myself complaining more on this forum. Though sometimes it was just nice to touch base with others, and realize I wasn’t alone in feeling nails on a blackboard during this or that weirdness.

Again, just to realize that I wasn’t losing my mind.

But after a point it just doesn’t really result in anything good, and I’m more focused now on getting right with some personal issues I’m dealing with, and hopefully returning if God be willing to a more active participation in the Church.

But I believe it fosters laziness on the OF side. I’ve heard the response here that if one doesn’t like the liturgy, one should seek out an EF Mass. That does nothing for reform. The EF is not the panacea for bad OF liturgy. Liturgical discipline in the OF is the panacea for bad OF liturgy.

There is a fair point to this, but here is the issue, the EF does promote a freedom in bringing in a pious priest for an occasional celebration. And everything is done by lovers of liturgy so you get a mass that’s a pure gem. I’ve been an altar server at those a few times.

An experience which often calls me back to the Church, bringing to mind that passage from Revelation of the angel standing before God with smoke that represents prayers rising up towards Him…

I’ve never seen that freedom in any OF parish, at all.

It was only ever an occasional experience for me. Our bishop intended it to be like that. He hoped that we would enrich the OF. Bring our experiences back to our parishes. We did manage to introduce gregorian a few times per year for especially solemn occassions and lent.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

I don’t think there are any pro’s for SP. As has been said already in this thread, SP was supposedly designed to bring SSPX back into the fold. However, given the reasoning for their separation, SP seemed like a suppression of VII to some people. I also think that Benedict’s ideology is embedded in the document, which, since it involved the Liturgy, wasn’t a good place for him to embed his ideology.

One thing that bugs me about SP is that Benedict mentions that the Latin Mass is popular with young people. In other words, he’s saying that ‘besides the whole SSPX thing…that’s another reason to do this.’ I didn’t know that young people were attracted to the EF back then, but there are more today because of SP.

Yeah, it seems to have led to divisions without having done anything to bring the SSPX around. But I like how Pope Francis has said that there will be no reform of the reform.

 

[po18guy]

CilladeRoma
The only con, as far as I am concerned, is the “liturgy wars” that started because of it.

And here’s how goofy we Catrholics are: It was supposed to end the war.

 

[phil19034]

I think if OF Masses like the above were more widely available, the EF wouldn’t be necessary for the most part.

I agree with this statement.

However, I think the problem is that for almost 50 years a ton of Parishes have been treating the Ordinary Form like a low mass, or with folk music, guitar, drums, etc.

If a priest trys to bring back incense, chant and/or Latin in most Parishes would be the kiss of death. So the offering the EF seems to be the “easier” thing to do

However, I personally, would LOVE to see the Canons Regular of St John Cantius grow. They are an order focused on beauty and the sacred. They offer both the Extraordinary Form and the Ordinary Form at their parishes - focusing on beautiful and sacredness in the mass.

We need more vocations for this order.

Religious Community | Canons Regular of St. John Cantius | Illinois

The Canons Regular of St. John Cantius is a religious community of men dedicated to the restoration of the sacred.

www.canons-regular.org

 

[Windmill]

In our town, SP has been a God-send. We have a priest who offers an EF Mass once a month and it is a relief from the troops of Extraordinary Miniaters of HC, harmonicas & guitars, and the overall “social” atmosphere that permeates our parish OF Masses. We saw about 100 attendees on the Feast of the Annunciation (mostly college aged youth). The priests in our diocese are too afraid to solemnize the Sunday OF Masses for fear of nasty letters to the bishop, so guitar Masses with praise & worship hymns and bongos are the norm.

It won’t change in my lifetime, even though I’ve done my part to try and change it. I started a men’s Schola in 2003, and we got a lot of pushback. We tried to be kind and non-confrontational and look for small opportunities to show our value. Well the older crowd made their distaste known. So we are pretty much put in our place with the non-Sunday off-feast monthly EF Mass.

Im tired of trying to be nice and patient. 15 years of being a freak show didn’t get us anywhere as a Schola. At least at the EF Mass we are greatly appreciated instead of frowned upon. And it’s younger people who understand the faith who appreciate us. The people who gripe about Latin chant are typically people who reject Church teaching on birth control and a male-only priesthood. I’m tired of wandering around. I’m getting too old for that. SP gave me a home.

 

[OraLabora]

The people who gripe about Latin chant are typically people who reject Church teaching on birth control and a male-only priesthood.

A few members of our schola are, dare I say… Uber-liberal (favour women priests even). So I don’t know if we can generalize. It may vary from place to place; conservative Catholics are as rare as hen’s teeth in Quebec regardless of the music.

Our schola has had both good and bad experiences. We were kicked out of our home parish after several years, so we had to develop wanderlust. Now we rove around the city. But that hasn’t been all bad. We help bring chant to those who would never experience it. But the funniest of all… we’ve developed a few “groupies” that follow us around as we wander from parish to parish. There is no EF Mass within 100 km of the city, so we’re as “good as it gets”. Well, almost as good as it gets. The Benedictine abbey is just a 40 minute drive… but we were trained by them.

 

[StatuensNParteDextra]

You miss the point of the document. One of its purposes was to start “Liturgy Wars” because of the general path some clerics have gone down of seeming to make things up as they go along. One of Benedict’s missions was to bring the Liturgy more in line with the Catholic Mass of our ancestors and it’s a long drawn out process that Francis directed his head of Liturgy Cardinal Sarah to continue. Expect more reform to the OF as time goes on to bring it more into line with the EF.

 

[Weserthy]

OraLabora:

I think if OF Masses like the above were more widely available, the EF wouldn’t be necessary for the most part.

I agree with this statement.

However, I think the problem is that for almost 50 years a ton of Parishes have been treating the Ordinary Form like a low mass, or with folk music, guitar, drums, etc.

If a priest trys to bring back incense, chant and/or Latin in most Parishes would be the kiss of death. So the offering the EF seems to be the “easier” thing to do

I definitely agree with this. Look at Fr. Dwyer who made headlines recently; he tried to make just one mass at his parish more reverent and a small group of parishoners ran him out of there on a rail. Without the EF most Catholics would have no chance at a more reverent mass.

I attend the OF regularly, and I agree with others saying that it can be a beautiful liturgy if done correctly, and adding incense, chant, and/or Latin can really add to the effect. But these things are seldom done.

 

[yankeesouth]

One of the great documents in Church history. Certainly one of God’s surprises.

If the OF was the be all end all then there wouldn’t have been a need for SP.

 

[twf]

In my archdiocese, there was a “quasi-parish” without their own church building, served by the FSSP…after, and I think as a symbolic response to Summorum Pontificum, the archbishop erected a permanent FSSP parish and gave them a church building. Huge? Perhaps not…but a concrete change.

 

[twf]

My biggest beef is bad/corny music. I honestly prefer a quiet spoken Mass to one with bad music.

Yeah…in the town where my parents live, the 6 PM Sunday evening Mass featured a cantor who couldn’t carry a tune. The dear lady meant well but she was truly DREADFUL. As I understand it, that Mass no longer has a cantor / choir…Father simply chants his bits and leads the hymns himself a Capella. Definitely preferable.

 

[MikeInVA]

It would have been better to limit its use, and instead focus on improving the OF Mass.

I don’t think there is any amount of improving that can make the OF Mass the equal of the EF. I have been blessed to be able to attend Mass at a FSSP parish for the last two weeks. While I don’t understand much of the Latin, the English translation of the prayers are incredible!

Having said that, yes there are many things that could be done to improve the OF. Start with Ad Orientum - the Liturgy of the Eucharist makes more sense when celebrated that way. Next, no more St. Louis Jesuits and there succesors’ music. A couple of weeks ago we had a song based on Laudato Si that may be a good song, but it isn’t liturgical at all. And stop the sign of peace circus, it’s sad to see people waving, blowing kisses and walking across the aisle to connect with all their friends. It still wouldn’t match an EF Mass, but it would be a good start!

 

[Gorgias]

And just-be-quiet-and-fulfill-sunday-obligation.

When you’re wondering about the motivation of those who rail against the EF, and who advocate for the Novus Ordo, please realize that this experience – “just be quiet and fulfill my Sunday obligation” – was the experience that some had of the Latin Mass prior to the emergence of the Novus Ordo…

 

[poche]

Here is a link to the actual document through the Vatican’s site;

http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedi...otu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.html

 

[Genesis315]

Unfortunately, introducing a novel liturgy was overly divisive–including diachronically. SP helps re-foster some of that unity that was lost. I have seen older people who fell away when the changes were rigidly imposed return with tears in their eyes. And I think SP has actually helped improve the OF as well. The priests I know who offer the EF also offer the OF in a reverent, more traditional (as much as possible) way like you describe. Conversely, the priests with a negative view of the EF offer the OF in a banal, irreverent way. It’s not a coincidence.

As for the 15-20 minute low mass–I’d love that to be the low bar of irreverence. I’ve lived in places where a 20 minute no frills daily OF Mass was the only time you’d see no other abuses.

 

[Jbrady]

please realize that this experience – “just be quiet and fulfill my Sunday obligation” – was the experience that some had of the Latin Mass prior to the emergence of the Novus Ordo…

Indeed. Not many Catholics wax nostalgic for the times before Vatican II. They don’t consider them some kind of golden age or as the good ol’ days. Quite the opposite.

 

[Genesis315]

Indeed. Not many Catholics wax nostalgic for the times before Vatican II. They don’t consider them some kind of golden age or as the good ol’ days. Quite the opposite.

Which is why the Church is in the state its in today–those from that generation did a number on us.

At least back then, there were full pews, long confession lines, full seminaries, and full convents and–love it or hate it–everyone knew what the basics of the faith were and what the Church was.

If things are so much better now, why are pews empty, confession lines short, seminaries empty, and convents empty? Why is there little Catholic identity of any substance, basic morality in confusion, widespread ignorance of basic truths, etc., etc.?

Obviously, those still active prefer what they have wrought to what was before–everyone else just fell away…

 

[Jbrady]

Do you seriously think that returning to pre-Vatican II practices is going to fill the pews? Rather not. The pews would be much emptier now had it not been for Vatican II.

 

[Mi_Rose]

I am in my sixties and was rather young when the mass was changed. I did not know one person in my parent’s generation who was unhappy with the changes.
They loved that the prayer were in English. They loved that the priest faced the people. Those who are alive still do.
If changing the mass drove people from the church why is church attendance down in the US in all the denominations?

 

[Jbrady]

I did not know one person in my parent’s generation who was unhappy with the changes.

Nor do I. The changes were received enthusiastically and practically unanimously, and TLMers remain a very tiny fraction of the Catholic community.