Sunday instead of the Sabbath?

[YADA]

Clearly, the scriptural references indicate that early Christians gathered on the first day of the week [the Lord’s Day - called thus because Jesus rose from the Dead on the first day - Sunday] for Eucharist

The consensus [of at leaast most] Scripture scholars and historians is that the earliest Christians [being Jewish] maintained synagogue worship on the sabbath [from whence we get the Liturgy of the Word]. This followed even with the gentile Christians and was the reason why there was an issue of the gentile Christians conforming to judaism [circumcision and dietary laws] in addition to being baptized and brought into the ‘Christian’ community. The early Christians than gathered on the “Lord’s day” [Sunday] to celebrate the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

The final break between Christianity and Judaism occurred near the time of the destruction of the Temple by the Romans in 70 AD. So shortly before [most probably] or shortly after a hard break occurred. The Christian community was expelld from synogogue worship and they began to celebrate the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist, together, and upon the Lord’s Day.

There is great similarity between the jewish worship and our Liturgy of the Word. Several years ago, one of our candidates [RCIA] had a jewish friend attend the Easter Vigil with her. I spent about an hour with her [the jewish friend] at the reception that followed. She hd never attended a Catholic Mass before [but had beenn to Protestant services]. She was amazed at how ‘at home’ she felt during the service. She said that readings were just as they doo them in her synogogue [except the NT - which she could follow and hear old testament references in but was not familar with]. The cantor. Well she did not think any one would know what a cantor was or what they did but there the cantor was! She was just amazed and raved on and on about the service. The procession of the Gospel Book was reflected in the procession of the Torah, etc.

 

[praise_Him]

Hey Threadkiller,

You forgot to mention Acts 20:7,

SDAs claim that this was a continuation of the Sabbath service, but the text clearly indicates that they CAME TOGETHER on the first day of the week. BTW, the phrase to “break bread” in the New Testament and early Christian writings referred to the Eucharist.

“Act 2:46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart:” DR 1899

As we can see here breaking bread is nothing more than a meal. I really can’t understand why the insistence of trying to prove that the sanctity of the Sabbath was changed anywhere in scripture when the church plainly teaches that it was not. None of the verses quoted said anything whatsoever about the sanctity of the Sabbath being transferred to sunday as we can see various Catholic scholars and even the catechism confirm that indeed the sanctified day from Genesis to Revelation is the seventh day Sabbath.

"The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify”

The $1,000 offer is not from me, let’s look at the quote again.

“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.’ And lo! the entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.”
-Bishop T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18, 1884
SDA’s aren’t the only ones who observe Sabbath God bless!

 

[YADA]

The Eucharistic meal that St. Paul refers to and which includes the “Blessing Cup” which we bless" that is a “participation in the death of Christ” that we eat to our “death” if partaken “unworthily”. This is no common dinner or meal. This is Eucharist, the partaking of the Body and Blood instituted in the upper room…St Paul from 1 Corintians 11:

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24 and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12 **28 **A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup. **29 **For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself. 30 That is why many among you are ill and infirm and a considerable number are dying.

No way that this is any thing other than the Eucharist…we celebrated it then; we celebrated it thorugh the centuries; we celebrate it today.

It is the Mass; right down to proclaiming "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again"

 

[RNRobert]

The Eucharistic meal that St. Paul refers to and which includes the “Blessing Cup” which we bless" that is a “participation in the death of Christ” that we eat to our “death” if partaken “unworthily”. This is no common dinner or meal. This is Eucharist, the partaking of the Body and Blood instituted in the upper room…St Paul from 1 Corintians 11:

No way that this is any thing other than the Eucharist…we celebrated it then; we celebrated it thorugh the centuries; we celebrate it today.

It is the Mass; right down to proclaiming "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again"

Yes. St Ignatius of Antioch used the term “breaking of the bread” to describe the Eucharist- He called it the “medicine of immortality” (see my signature).

St Ignatius learned the faith from the Apostle John himself, so he ought to know.

 

[threadkiller]

“Act 2:46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart:” DR 1899

As we can see here breaking bread is nothing more than a meal. I really can’t understand why the insistence of trying to prove that the sanctity of the Sabbath was changed anywhere in scripture when the church plainly teaches that it was not. None of the verses quoted said anything whatsoever about the sanctity of the Sabbath being transferred to sunday as we can see various Catholic scholars and even the catechism confirm that indeed the sanctified day from Genesis to Revelation is the seventh day Sabbath.

"The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify”

The $1,000 offer is not from me, let’s look at the quote again.

“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.’ And lo! the entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.”
-Bishop T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18, 1884
SDA’s aren’t the only ones who observe Sabbath God bless!

Hey praise,
See posts 18 & 19 and pay up. Just send your tax deductible donation of the $1000.00 you owe me to Caholic Relief Services. Don’t be a welch.

 

[KnightforChrist]

Sorry to try and keep my reply somewhat basic and brief, but, didn’t the practice or in our Catholic understanding, the “Tradition”, of meeting on the first day of the week, Sunday, come before the writings of the new testament ???

And where do we see any later writings after the tradition was already in practice of where this is specifically condemned ??? And I mean condemned by Christians…Was there a major consensus of condemnation anywhere on this ???

I’m sorry to not delve off into the scriptural debate side of this, but sometimes with respect to certain things in our Catholic faith, Tradition can speak volumes !!!

 

[MarcoPolo]

Here is more information and quotations that the earliest Christians celebrated the Eucharist on Sunday, it was the Lord’s Day, etc…

 

[praise_Him]

My intent on this forum is not “Catholic bashing” Please don’t think that. I have no animosity whatsoever for any faith. My purpose here is to find truth. I am pretty straight forward but I think this is good. I am finding since my recent conversion that God’s Word is pretty straight forward. I really would enjoy a civil discussion with someone who is knowledgeable about
scripture.
It bothers me no matter what faith you go to these days it seems no one can talk about deep things in scripture. Or even make a decent attempt at defending their beliefs. They either get mad or they try to go in circles…Why not study to show thyself approved?

“2Ti 2:15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they grow much towards ungodliness.”

“1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you.”

I guess people in general are to busy. I can think of nothing better to do than learn more about my Redeemer! I by no means know much about scripture. There is soo much I don’t know but the Lord has been good to me and I am learning as I have time to study.

“Act 17:11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so.”
They searched daily to see if what Paul and Silas were telling them was true.

“1Th 5:21 But prove all things: hold fast that which is good.”

Prove ALL things hold fast only to the good things!

“1Jn 4:1 Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.
Php 2:13 For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will."

God bless ( scriptures from the DR 1899)

"Jud 1:24 Now to him who is able to preserve you without sin and to present you spotless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Jud 1:25 To the only God our Saviour through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory and magnificence, empire and power, before all ages, and now, and for all ages of ages. Amen. "

 

[RobbyS]

Early christians or Christ never changed the Sabbath to sunday. Many sources from the catholic church substantiate this. Let’s look at a few.

“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.’ And lo! the entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.”
-Bishop T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18, 1884

“The Catholic Church…by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.”
-The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893

“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her—she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”
-Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174

As we can see from these few quotes as well as in scripture, (there are a whole lot more just like these from catholic sources) that there is not a single evidience in scripture that Christ or the apostles ever changed or had any intention of changing or worshiping on sunday as the Sabbath. It really surprises me to see a catholic forum trying to defend sunday from scripture when there is an overwhelming amount of quotes through the years from catholic sources including the catechism refute any authority from scriptures for the change from Sabbth to sunday. If we look through history we also see that sunday worship came into popularity through paganistic influences in the early church. An excellent source on the History of the Sabbath whith various quotes from historians of the period ect. is sabbathtruth.com/history/sabbath_history1.asp
There is nothing wrong with assembling on sunday, but nowhere in scripture will you see it referred to as sanctified for worship.

 

[RobbyS]

You are pretty well on track here Linda, The early Christians were hated and persecuted because they preached Jesus Christ, hence they were thrown out and they fled. As Christianity spread throughout the roman empire the pagans of rome associated the Christians with the jews (whom the romans absolutely hated ) because the jews were the only ones who kept the seventh day Sabbath as instructed in scripture. So rome started persecuting christians in a large part due to association to the jews because of the Sabbath. In essence the tremendous persecutions by the roman empire eventually led to concessions and compromise of beliefs. Sunday worship has been thoroughly established as pagan in origin. As far back as the Chaldean and Egyptian empires. The first “official” keeping of sunday in the early church I have found started coming into being about 313 A.D with the emporer constantine who mixed christianity with paganism in an effort to gain popularity with both sides in his kingdom. We see the response of the church to the persecution of the recent past and pressure from Constantine to make concessions in the council of Laodecea in A.D 364 The twenty ninth canon of that council reads as follows .
CANON XXIX.
“CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”

Note the reference to being “judaizers” if they kept the seventh day Sabbath

"Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Third Edition"1). Question: Which is the Sabbath day? "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. 2). "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"Answer. “We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

As we see here The church openly admits that there is not a single piece of evidence in scripture from Christ or the apostles.

"The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify.

The Catholic Mirror (a publication by Cardinal Gibbons) Sept. 2, 1893- “…the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday.”

I have seen alot of misapplication of a particular scripture on this subject.
“Joh 20:19 Now when it was late the same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst and said to them: Peace be to you.” Douay Rheims 1899

To use this verse as a basis saying they were observing Sabbath goes against alot of church writings and doctrine as we have seen. There is no basis whatsoever in this verse for sunday worship. The verse is self explanatory as to why they were gathered together on saturday night as we call it now, it was because they were afraid of the jews who had just crucified Christ. God bless!

As the first Christians were Jews, they kept the Sabbath–which ended at sundown and thereafter had a Christian meal.
Probably they continued to follow this practice for many years, because the Romans had given Jews the right to keep the Sabbath. As to why Sunday, since Jesus roase on the first day of the week and his rising signified the new covenant, why shouldn’t Sunday supplant the Sabbath as the day of rest. just as His safrice supplanted those of the temple?

 

[RNRobert]

In St Paul’s epistles, he frequently attacks “Judaicizers,” those who would have Christians follow the Jewish law. He tells the Colossians "Let no one,then, pass judgement on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon **or sabbath. **These things are shadows of things to come, the reality belongs to Christ (2:16-17, NAB).
Similarly, he scolds the Galatians: “You are observing days, months, seasons and years. I am afraid on your account I have labored in vain.” (4:10-11, NAB).

It seems to me that the Jewish Sabbath is no longer binding on us as Christians.

 

[praise_Him]

"Eph 2:15 Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees: that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace "

"Deu 31:24 Therefore after Moses had wrote the words of this law in a volume, and finished it:
Deu 31:25 He commanded the Levites, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying:
Deu 31:26 Take this book, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God: that it may be there for a testimony against thee. " DR 1899

There was more than one type of Law in the OT.
If we look in Lev. 22 there were quite a few sabbaths. there is only 1 That God set aside and sanctified in the 10 Commandments.
In Hebrews 9 we can see what was set aside and abolished.
“Heb 9:1 The former indeed had also justifications of divine service and a sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made the first, wherein were the candlesticks and the table and the setting forth of loaves, which is called the Holy.
Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies:
Heb 9:4 Having a golden censer and the ark of the testament covered about on every part with gold, in which was a golden pot that had manna and the rod of Aaron that had blossomed and the tables of the testament.
Heb 9:5 And over it were the cherubims of glory overshadowing the propitiatory: of which it is not needful to speak now particularly.
Heb 9:6 Now these things being thus ordered, into the first tabernacle, the priests indeed always entered, accomplishing the offices of sacrifices.
Heb 9:7 But into the second, the high priest alone, once a year: not without blood, which he offereth for his own and the people’s ignorance:
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost signifying this: That the way into the Holies was not yet made manifest, whilst the former tabernacle was yet standing.
Heb 9:9 Which is a parable of the time present: according to which gifts and sacrifices are offered, which cannot, as to the conscience, make him perfect that serveth, only in meats and in drinks,
Heb 9:10 And divers washings and justices of the flesh laid on them until the time of correction.
Heb 9:11 But Christ, being come an high Priest of the good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hand, that is, not of this creation:
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats or of calves, but by his own blood, entered once into the Holies, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is as yet of no strength, whilst the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither was the first indeed dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when every commandment of the law had been read by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people.
Heb 9:20 Saying: This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 The tabernacle also and all the vessels of the ministry, in like manner, he sprinkled with blood.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things, according to the law, are cleansed with blood: and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It is necessary therefore that the patterns of heavenly things should be cleansed with these: but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.”

We see here that the traditions of the sacrifice service were what was abolished.To say that Paul is referring to the Seventh day Sabbath is to disagree with these statements

"Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Third Edition"1). Question: Which is the Sabbath day? "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. 2). "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"Answer. “We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

"The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify.

Gog bless

 

[mlchance]

The first point I would like to bring to the table is that I am rather dissapointed that scripture is being used to to try to prove the change from the sanctity of the seventh day Sabbath to the first day of the week sunday…

IOW, the Bible indeed does say early Christians met for worship on Sunday, which contradicts what you said earlier; therefore, let’s all wave hands and blow smoke in order to make what the Bible says go away.



– Mark L. Chance.

 

[praise_Him]

Not according to Catholic theologians and the catechism quoted above.
God bless

 

[servus]

SDAs claim that Constantine changed the day in the 4th century, but there is ample evidence that Christians worshipped on Sunday. St Ignatius of Antioch wrote about how the Jews “no longer kept the sabbath but now order their lives by the Lord’s Day.”

RNRobert,

I am currently looking for the quote in the SDA Bible commentary which explicitly states that Adventists do not teach Constantine changed the Sabbath, but that it was in existence before.

Constantine did make the first “national sunday law” calling it by its name from Mithraism, “Venerabili dies solis” the venerable day of the sun celebrated by the followers of Mithra, (Zoroastrianism in Persia).

This pleased both the pagans, and the Christians in Rome and Alexandria. But Sozomen and Socrates Scholasticus tell us that even until the 5th century, in spite of Rome and Alexandria, the Sabbath was a universal festival upon which Christians celebrated the “mysteries” (i.e. Lord’s Supper).

Acts 20:7 is a Saturday evening meeting. The Catholic Jerusalem Bible with footnotes says this (Imprimatur By Ratzinger). Also in the TEV it simply says “On saturday evening when the disciples came together to break bread…” It was still the first day of the week according to the Apostles, but Paul walked 20 miles from Troas to Assos the following morning (Acts 20:13), He spent all day Sunday in Physical labor! Not the best way to Christen a new rest day.

In 1 Corinthians 16:2 which has been interpreted as Paul telling the church to tithe is not a tithe. It is a collection to be made by the saints to be picked up at a later date for the Church at Jerusalem (1 Cor. 16:3, Acts 11:29). Furthermore the Greek word Paul uses for “lay aside in store” (thesaurizon) implies that they are not at Church but at Home. Paul uses the same word in Romans 2:5 “you treasure up unto yourself wrath for the day of judgement…” referring to a later date. Also, since this is not a tithe, but a special offering dependant upon how much “God has prospered you” the people were to do thier book keeping on Sunday, work which it would not be right to do on the Sabbath. In the first century, a request like this having been made by Paul would have implied that the Jerusalem Church needed food, money and clothing. So the saints at Corinth, at home on Sunday, would rummage through thier closets to find clothes to donate, go through thier fields to find extra food to send, and do thier book keeping, and set aside money for Paul to take.

continued…

 

[servus]

Revelation 1:10. Most Scholars Catholic, Protestant, or whatever agree that this is not about Sabbath or Sunday but it is Johns way of saying “the Day of the Lord”, referring to the Day of judgement, or what Paul would call the “parousia” which means “coming” or the grand entrance of Christ on the scene at the end of the world. If it did apply to a specific day of the week, it would be the Sabbath because the Sabbath is the Lord’s day (Mark 2:27-28, Isaiah 58:13).

Sorry for being wordy, but I have to say something about Colossians 2:16. Paul is not here telling us not to keep the Sabbath. He is reiterating Christ’s stance on the Sabbath. Christ taught how to keep the Sabbath, not not to keep the Sabbath. If you put Colossians 2:16 in context, and start reading in chapter 2, Paul is denouncing a philosophical and mystical, syncretistic, Hellenized Jewish legaism…not the law itself. The hand written ordinances he speaks of are not the law, but the “cheirographon” (ver.14) which was a word used back then to denote an accusation in the docket at a court case. The law points out our sin, like a mirror. But the solution is not to break the mirror. The cheirographon which was “nailed to the cross” is the accusation against us. It is God’s way of telling us that the way of keeping track of the sins of His saints has been nailed to the cross. Furthermore, in verse 16 where Paul talks about “meats and drinks” right away we are into a translation problem. The translators across the board are biased against the law. The words here are “brosei” (eating) and “prosei” (drinking). But its usually translated as food and drink. If it says eating and drinking, then it refers to how we eat or drink. But if it refers to food and drink, it is referring to what we eat or drink. It is either talking about the law, or how we keep the law…the evidence shows that Colossians 2:16 concerns the latter.

Finally, arguing never gets us anywhere. But as I have learned from other threads on this subject, the Catholics usually say “just about every Catholic Church has a saturday Mass”. In fact, every Sabbath afternoon when Im on my way home from Church, I drive by a Catholic parish, and the parking lot is full. There is no reason (doctrinally) that Catholics cannot keep the Sabbath. What I challenge each of you to do is to make the Sabbath as day of rest for you. You don’t have to become Adventists. But out of respect for God’s law, I think you would benefit and be blessed by making the Sabbath a special day of blessing you yourselves and your families. Don’t work on it, take a break from shopping, etc. God did not give us the Sabbath as an arbitrary burden, but to protect us from fogetting that He made us, “and not we ourselves”.

Peace and God Bless,

alan

 

[Tom317]

The gift of “binding and loosing” was not symbolic, it was a very real authority given to the Church. This topic is silly on many levels because there is plenty of evidence in Scripture that the early Church worshipped on Sunday, and even if that point is debated, no one can debate the fact that Jesus gave the Church the power to bind and loose. Couple that with the fact they we know longer live under the law, but under grace, and this topic becomes moot. IMO.

We folow Christ in an age of Grace, we are not living under the Mosaic Law.

 

[RNRobert]

The gift of “binding and loosing” was not symbolic, it was a very real authority given to the Church. This topic is silly on many levels because there is plenty of evidence in Scripture that the early Church worshipped on Sunday, and even if that point is debated, no one can debate the fact that Jesus gave the Church the power to bind and loose. Couple that with the fact they we know longer live under the law, but under grace, and this topic becomes moot. IMO.

We folow Christ in an age of Grace, we are not living under the Mosaic Law.

 

[MarcoPolo]

"Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Third Edition"1). Question: Which is the Sabbath day? "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. 2). "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"Answer. “We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

"The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify.

Gog bless

First I was wondering if you read Faith of Our Fathers from which you quote? Because I noticed the internet is chock-full of websites that include your Gibbons quote as well as your 2nd quote in attempting to refute the Catholic Church.

To use the quote as you have above leads me to believe someone has not presented you the authority of the Catholic Church arguments, nor the history of Sunday worship.

I recommend you read Karl Keating’s book Catholicism and Fundamentalism. In it are explanations of claims made by non-Catholics. Even if you don’t agree, you will learn that so often when the Church makes a declaration on a certain date, that the item in question was believed for decades or centuries prior to that declaration (i.e. To say The Council of Laodicea was the moment the Church switched to Sunday is not accurate).

Catholic.com has a tract on this subject here if quotes from the early Church Fathers is your preference.

More on the understanding of Sunday as the day of worship is at New Advent.

Also see my post in this thread #27.

It is appreciated that you said you are not here to Catholic bash. Therefore, it is important to know your associate’s position correctly, whether you agree with it or not. Hence my list of recommended reading for you.

God bless.

 

[RNRobert]

Servus,

I don’t know about your SDA Bible Commentary, but I have read The Great Controversy by Ellen G. White, the founder of Seventh Day Adventism, as well as *National Sunday Law, *another Adventist publication (which quotes from The Great Controversy), and both state that all Christians worshipped on the Sabbath until Constantine changed the day til Sunday. Or is the SDA church disavowing some of the statements made by its founder??? I mean, the whole *raison d’etre *of Seventh Day Adventism was that Constantine supposedly changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday (and I find it odd that Christians who willingly endured martyrdom rather than compromise their faith one iota would suddenly cave on this issue). If the SDA church is denying White’s claim, it makes the purpose of your church’s existence moot.
I and others have shown you from early Christians dating back to the first century that clearly shows that Sunday was the main day of worship. The Christians who honored the Sabbath were most likely ex-Jews who kept it out of tradition, the way the Apostles continued to worship in the Temple after the Resurrection, even though that edifice had been rendered irrelevant…
Regarding Col 2:16, if it still means we are to keep the Sabbath, then it also means we should keep the “festivals and new moons” also mentioned. Seems to me sabbatarians are picking and choosing.
Regarding 1 Cor 16:2, Jesus himself said it was “lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” If it’s ok to break a sweat to rescue an animal caught in a ditch on the Sabbath, then surely doing some work to help one’s fellow brothers and sisters in Christ cannot be a bad thing?