Sunday mass on DC field trip?

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Seriously, you wouldn’t even ask? Maybe it is easy enough to accommodate. Maybe there are others who want to go, but don’t want to speak up, even a chaperone. It doesn’t hurt to ask. They can say no, and you are no worse off for it.

I would study the itinerary as well and see if it would be possible to fit in a Mass. FYI the Metro red line stops on the corner of the CUA campus, which is within walking distance to both the basilica and even closer to the chapel on campus. If the Mass times work out, no transportation would even be needed. (Metro with an adult, of course.)

Basilica:
Masses

SUNDAY
5:15 p.m. (Vigil)
7:30 a.m.
9:00 a.m.
10:30 a.m.
12:00 noon (Choir)
1:30 p.m. (en español)
4:30 p.m.

St. Vincent Chapel:
Sunday Eucharist

Mass at 11:00am & 9:00pm, St. Vincent’s Chapel

Mass at 4:00pm, Crypt Church

You won’t find the Basilica Mass times on the CUA website, as the Basilica is technically not on campus. (although with a good arm you could throw a rock from it and hit the next building.)

Good luck. It would be a great addition to the DC tour for a Catholic.
 
This is an English-speaking thread and “Don” is a very common men’s name in the English speaking world. Even if a person was aware of Italian titles, they would be most likely to presume “Don” was a first name unless it was reveled otherwise.

Also, I am a teacher and if I was chaperoning a trip that would take up my weekend, I would do all I could to fulfill my Mass obligation. I would have no problem taking students with me, if their parents agreed, provided I didn’t have to drive them myself. Depending on the size of the group, there is a very good chance that one of the adults is Catholic. It won’t hurt to ask if attending Mass is a possibility. I don’t think that question will be seen as unreasonable to ask. Now if you demanded it, that would be another story. I went on a few choir tours as a student and a group of us often went to Mass.
 
Xantippe said:
presumably Catholic University of America
etc., etc.

Here are Georgetown’s Sunday Masses:

11:00 a.m., 12:30 p.m., 5:00 p.m., 7:30 p.m., 9:30 p.m., 11:00 p.m. in Dahlgren Chapel

Seriously, your kid should be done site-seeing by 11 PM.
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Seems a little unreasonable for an 8th grader to go to Mass at 11:00 p.m.
 
HouseArrest said:
Seriously, you wouldn’t even ask?
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Yes, for the reasons I gave. I learned that asking for extra for my child CAN cause a problem that is hard to erase. You don’t get what you asked for and you gain their resentment for your asking. Its too much reason to complain about you to their colleagues - who may well include your child’s next semester teacher - (they won’t complain to you) about the THAT child’s mom. And it is too much to ask - asking the school to take your child to Mass and back when they have a couple hundred other 8th graders to keep track of. Really, they will just look at her cross-eyed when she asks. I say this from my own experience as a parent who has asked for considerations for my child, and as a public school educator with an insider’s view.
 
Eliza10 said:
Yes, for the reasons I gave. I learned that asking for extra for my child CAN cause a problem that is hard to erase. You don’t get what you asked for and you gain their resentment for your asking. Its too much reason to complain about you to their colleagues - who may well include your child’s next semester teacher - (they won’t complain to you) about the THAT child’s mom. And it is too much to ask - asking the school to take your child to Mass and back when they have a couple hundred other 8th graders to keep track of. Really, they will just look at her cross-eyed when she asks. I say this from my own experience as a parent who has asked for considerations for my child, and as a public school educator with an insider’s view.
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If my kid were attending an institution where I thought the people in charge would treat my child differently because I asked if it were possible for him to attend mass, I would not leave him there.

It might not be too much to ask.

I was a public school educator as well.
 
I agree with those who suggest looking at what Catholic churches offer Mass at a time that might remotely be likely to be accommodated. You cannot expect someone else’s tour to be turned upside down for a special request that won’t land anyone in an emergency department if it is not granted. Life is like that.

Even if our children could have gotten a dispensation, however, when we traveled they were always interested in seeing a Catholic church and going to Mass in a different part of the country. Who knows, there might be a Catholic chaperone or two who would like an excuse for a side-trip to the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. I consider it a high point of a trip to DC. It is not as if that city has a lot going on for Sunday mornings before 10 am

Having said that, these special accommodations might be difficult to accomplish and could cause some resentment towards or embarrassment for the student engendering the accommodations. More to the point, the group bus might be travelling on Sunday morning to a remote location like Monticello, Williamsburg, or Mount Vernon and spending the day south of DC, making it impossible for the Catholic party to catch up.

Most of the priests I have ever had as a pastor would grant a dispensation for a public school trip when the parent is not there to take on the task of getting their student to Mass or when transportation issues make it very difficult.

Do your homework, talk to the school, then based on what you learn, speak to your pastor. You’ll be able to work something out.
 
Eliza10 said:
Yes, for the reasons I gave. I learned that asking for extra for my child CAN cause a problem that is hard to erase. You don’t get what you asked for and you gain their resentment for your asking. Its too much reason to complain about you to their colleagues - who may well include your child’s next semester teacher - (they won’t complain to you) about the THAT child’s mom. And it is too much to ask - asking the school to take your child to Mass and back when they have a couple hundred other 8th graders to keep track of. Really, they will just look at her cross-eyed when she asks. I say this from my own experience as a parent who has asked for considerations for my child, and as a public school educator with an insider’s view.
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The public school I went to was over 90% Catholic in a state that is about 14% Catholic. You never know. The Catholic staff members who are chaperones might not be free to ask to go to Mass on their own volition, but accommodating the religious observances of a student are something else again.

It does not hurt to ask. If there are “a couple hundred” other 8th graders, the chances that there are enough Catholics to fill a bus is hardly beyond the realm of possibility. If not, well, when you go to your pastor at least you can honestly tell him you explored the possibility rather than just assuming that it would be impossible to go to Sunday Mass.

Again–going to Mass in a different part of the country can be very educational. The degree to which it is both different and yet the same, that sense of belonging to a Universal Church in which you can be “home” anywhere, can be very moving.
 
EasterJoy said:
The public school I went to was over 90% Catholic in a state that is about 14% Catholic. You never know. The Catholic staff members who are chaperones might not be free to ask to go to Mass on their own volition, but accommodating the religious observances of a student are something else again.

It does not hurt to ask. If there are “a couple hundred” other 8th graders, the chances that there are enough Catholics to fill a bus is hardly beyond the realm of possibility. If not, well, when you go to your pastor at least you can honestly tell him you explored the possibility rather than just assuming that it would be impossible to go to Sunday Mass.

Again–going to Mass in a different part of the country can be very educational. The degree to which it is both different and yet the same, that sense of belonging to a Universal Church in which you can be “home” anywhere, can be very moving.
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Schools come in all sizes (there were over 350 8th graders on my son’s D.C. trip) but planning a trip for even a small group requires extensive planning. The possibility for what could go wrong in every single location or time slot is exhaustively discussed in countless committees and meetings. Over years of experience, they find out what works and they stick with it.

Yes, Mass in a new place is educational for sure, but times have changed when it comes to respecting or even tolerating religious customs, particularly in schools. The school taking responsibility for making sure a student or some students meet their Sunday Obligation seems far fetched. Especially when the vast majority of their 8th graders never heard the words “Sunday obligation” in the same sentence from the pulpit in their entire lives. (Possibly none of them. I have been Catholic since 2000 and I have never heard it mentioned once at Mass - until this past Sunday! :eek: That is another story! -a good one).

Before I was mom, when I had my own classroom, December was full of Christmas projects and cards and homemade presents (times were beginning to change so I made to display a menorah picture in my room, too, and made mention of the projects being for other holidays, too). But my son didn’t bring anything Christmas home from public school. In fact, you really can’t say “Christmas” in school any more without being called on the carpet by someone (including a fourth grader).

So I can easily imagine a parent (fueled with righteous indignation based on the alleged constitutional “freedom from exposure to even the existence of religion:hypno:” clause) complaining about the school’s use of of a tour bus with tax dollars. And the administration can imagine it, too - which is why they would say no.
 
Although not a parent, I concur that trying to get a special concession for a child in this circumstance, where no medical need or similar emergency exists, is probably counterproductive. The logistics and liabilities in such a group are staggering and such a request would probably be met with “Well, he can stay home.”

There is no reason for him to miss the trip when he can easily get a dispensation and go to additional Masses at another time. Have him talk to your parish priest himself.

Better yet, get priestly counsel as to how this quandary can be resolved.

God Bless all concerned and ICXC NIKA.
 
Eliza10 said:
Schools come in all sizes (there were over 350 8th graders on my son’s D.C. trip) but planning a trip for even a small group requires extensive planning. The possibility for what could go wrong in every single location or time slot is exhaustively discussed in countless committees and meetings. Over years of experience, they find out what works and they stick with it.

Yes, Mass in a new place is educational for sure, but times have changed when it comes to respecting or even tolerating religious customs, particularly in schools. The school taking responsibility for making sure a student or some students meet their Sunday Obligation seems far fetched. Especially when the vast majority of their 8th graders never heard the words “Sunday obligation” in the same sentence from the pulpit in their entire lives. (Possibly none of them. I have been Catholic since 2000 and I have never heard it mentioned once at Mass - until this past Sunday! :eek: That is another story! -a good one).

Before I was mom, when I had my own classroom, December was full of Christmas projects and cards and homemade presents (times were beginning to change so I made to display a menorah picture in my room, too, and made mention of the projects being for other holidays, too). But my son didn’t bring anything Christmas home from public school. In fact, you really can’t say “Christmas” in school any more without being called on the carpet by someone (including a fourth grader).

So I can easily imagine a parent (fueled with righteous indignation based on the alleged constitutional “freedom from exposure to even the existence of religion:hypno:” clause) complaining about the school’s use of of a tour bus with tax dollars. And the administration can imagine it, too - which is why they would say no.
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We have Christmas and Christmas presents in our school. In fact, the school provides Christmas presents for many of the families. We have Christmas concerts as well. The only issues I would forsee regarding taking a group of students to Mass is a scheduling conflict or concern about transportation.
 
Eliza10 said:
Schools come in all sizes (there were over 350 8th graders on my son’s D.C. trip) but planning a trip for even a small group requires extensive planning. The possibility for what could go wrong in every single location or time slot is exhaustively discussed in countless committees and meetings. Over years of experience, they find out what works and they stick with it.

Yes, Mass in a new place is educational for sure, but times have changed when it comes to respecting or even tolerating religious customs, particularly in schools. The school taking responsibility for making sure a student or some students meet their Sunday Obligation seems far fetched. Especially when the vast majority of their 8th graders never heard the words “Sunday obligation” in the same sentence from the pulpit in their entire lives. (Possibly none of them. I have been Catholic since 2000 and I have never heard it mentioned once at Mass - until this past Sunday! :eek: That is another story! -a good one).

Before I was mom, when I had my own classroom, December was full of Christmas projects and cards and homemade presents (times were beginning to change so I made to display a menorah picture in my room, too, and made mention of the projects being for other holidays, too). But my son didn’t bring anything Christmas home from public school. In fact, you really can’t say “Christmas” in school any more without being called on the carpet by someone (including a fourth grader).

So I can easily imagine a parent (fueled with righteous indignation based on the alleged constitutional “freedom from exposure to even the existence of religion:hypno:” clause) complaining about the school’s use of of a tour bus with tax dollars. And the administration can imagine it, too - which is why they would say no.
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Gosh, you really would not need to use the tour bus. Metro… taxi…

This really sounds like the worst case scenario, which might happen, but again it might not.
 
Allegra said:
We have Christmas and Christmas presents in our school. In fact, the school provides Christmas presents for many of the families. We have Christmas concerts as well. The only issues I would forsee regarding taking a group of students to Mass is a scheduling conflict or concern about transportation.
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That’s really awesome! Where do you live?? Midwest? Rural??
 
Eliza10 said:
Schools come in all sizes (there were over 350 8th graders on my son’s D.C. trip) but planning a trip for even a small group requires extensive planning. The possibility for what could go wrong in every single location or time slot is exhaustively discussed in countless committees and meetings. Over years of experience, they find out what works and they stick with it.

Yes, Mass in a new place is educational for sure, but times have changed when it comes to respecting or even tolerating religious customs, particularly in schools. The school taking responsibility for making sure a student or some students meet their Sunday Obligation seems far fetched. Especially when the vast majority of their 8th graders never heard the words “Sunday obligation” in the same sentence from the pulpit in their entire lives. (Possibly none of them. I have been Catholic since 2000 and I have never heard it mentioned once at Mass - until this past Sunday! :eek: That is another story! -a good one).

Before I was mom, when I had my own classroom, December was full of Christmas projects and cards and homemade presents (times were beginning to change so I made to display a menorah picture in my room, too, and made mention of the projects being for other holidays, too). But my son didn’t bring anything Christmas home from public school. In fact, you really can’t say “Christmas” in school any more without being called on the carpet by someone (including a fourth grader).

So I can easily imagine a parent (fueled with righteous indignation based on the alleged constitutional “freedom from exposure to even the existence of religion:hypno:” clause) complaining about the school’s use of of a tour bus with tax dollars. And the administration can imagine it, too - which is why they would say no.
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I was thinking of the logistical difficulty in travelling to a single destination with a group of that size. Dumping 350 youngsters and their chaperones, no matter how well-mannered, on Monticello at the same time sounds like something of a nightmare for anyone else who is visiting. Even feeling a need to herd such a crowd in and out of the Air and Space Museum simultaneously seems prematurely complicated. That’s why I’d assume the larger group would split up into smaller groups with more-or-less independent itineraries most of the time.

I kind of doubt anyone would want to take a bus for 50 people into a church parking lot. Yes, a taxi paid for by the student would be more reasonable. In DC, though, the Metro does have a stop at the Catholic University of America where the Basilica is located. It would be a matter of whether there were any adults willing to chaperone the student.

It might be logistically impossible to do it or impossible to get the cooperation to do it. In that case, you can tell your pastor that you tried to find a way for your child to get to Mass that weekend, but that you could not work it out with the tour leaders. You still have to ask, but I do not know of a pastor who would not grant a dispensation for such a situation.

As for the constitutionality of it, just as there is a problem with requiring students to participate in a religious observance, there is a problem with preventing students from meeting their religious obligations. If they make plans that amount to unnecessarily prohibiting observant students from going on a trip without violating their religious beliefs, they could get in trouble for that, too. The constitutional sword does cut both ways. I would not try to push a tour change on those grounds myself, since our faith does allow for a member of the faithful to be given a dispensation from the obligation in these situations.
 
I wanted to chime in to say that I think a lot of this depends on how the request is made. I’ve seen parents be so demanding and rude in their requests that it makes the person not want to accomodate – not saying that’s the case here.

What I would suggest is look up the times/locations for the Masses in the area and present that to the organizer. I would then ask if any of those times would fit in with the group’s travel plans. They can say yes or they can say no – you won’t know until you ask.

If the accommodation cannot be reasonably made, then you have the information to go to your parish priest and ask for the dispensation.

I would think not letting the child go would be a HUGE mistake. There are some times that Mass attendance is not available – I’ve had it where I’m traveling and I just couldn’t find a Mass that would accommodate.
 
Aggie414 said:
I would think not letting the child go would be a HUGE mistake.
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I disagree with this. In fact, Mass aside, just the idea of a co-ed overnight trip (if that is what this is) would be enough for me to not want to send my kid.
 
12345678 said:
I disagree with this. In fact, Mass aside, just the idea of a co-ed overnight trip (if that is what this is) would be enough for me to not want to send my kid.
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Typically for such trips, boys and girls are completely separated, and chaperones ensure during the night that it stays that way.
 
pensmama87 said:
Typically for such trips, boys and girls are completely separated, and chaperones ensure during the night that it stays that way.
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I’m aware, just speaking from situations I have heard about, for example the experience a family member had (part of the chaperones had a party when they thought the kids were asleep, kids were sneaking into rooms). Maaybe if I knew the chaperone very well and knew they shared my values (hey maybe they could take my kid to Mass too!) it wasn’t some random parent, or 21 year old sibling, or any other type of accepted adult volunteer, that signed up to watch the kids.

ETA: I just googled an read a random overnight chaperoning guide (Seattle Public Schools)
  1. Night-time supervision can present different challenges. Chaperones should not be
    sleeping in the same rooms with students, but must ensure that students are in their
    rooms and not engaged in prohibited activities. This will generally mean a bed check at
    lights out and at least one additional check during the night. Your lead chaperone will help
    you understand the requirements and procedures for specific locations where students
    will be lodging. Different rules may need to be established for locations where students
    are staying in a gym, in open cabins or other non-traditional lodgings.
    …
    The District also requires that volunteer chaperones be at least 21 years old to supervise students in
    grades 6-8, 25 years old for students in grades 9-12.
seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/Migration/Departments/Risk%20Management/ChapGuideOvernight.pdf
 
EasterJoy said:
As for the constitutionality of it, just as there is a problem with requiring students to participate in a religious observance, there is a problem with preventing students from meeting their religious obligations. If they make plans that amount to unnecessarily prohibiting observant students from going on a trip without violating their religious beliefs, they could get in trouble for that, too. The constitutional sword does cut both ways. I would not try to push a tour change on those grounds myself, since our faith does allow for a member of the faithful to be given a dispensation from the obligation in these situations.
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Wrong. A. The trip isn’t mandatory. B. Reasonable accommodations are required. But is it reasonable for the school to make sure that every student has transportation and supervision to each of their specific religious services? No. That’s an undue burden and if they could make it work for one student and not another, then they get into even dicier discrimination issues.

Now, if the trip were mandatory and you cited religious observance as a reason why your child couldn’t go, the school would have to give them an alternative assignment for their grade. But no, no one is obligated to take your kid to church.
 
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