Sunday Obligation Question

[bpbasilphx]

\Now, my question is am I obligated to attend an illicit Mass such as this to fulfill my Sunday obligation? I wrote to the Saint Joseph Foundation (who are Canon Law experts) about this situation, and they responded that Canon Law does not address this issue, since it assumes that every Mass that is celebrated within the Church is licit.\

**Only if the priest is not ministering with faculties from the Bishop of the diocese (as in the case of SSPX clergy) is the mass illicit.

A single illicit liturgical practice–or a bunch of them–do not make the mass “illicit” in this case.

Furthermore, there are only 4 defects that make a Mass invalid:

1. Lack of proper minister (Priest or Bishop).
2. Lack of proper matter (Pure wheat bread and pure grape wine).
3. Lack of proper form (Mangling the Consecratory Forumla so they do not clearly refer to the bread and wine becoming the Body and Blood of Christ. Mere stumbing over the words does not cause this.)
4. Lack of intention. (This is hard to prove. If a validly ordained priest puts on the vestments and says the prayers and performs the ceremonial actions, intention is presumed.)**

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I’m not simply talking about a “poorly celebrated Mass.” I’m talking about a Mass where the priest deliberately changes prayers, and adds and takes things out of the liturgy that the Church itself has prescribed.

Is it at all possible for you to give specific examples so that those who have the knowledge can help you. Also, please let us know what plans you have for your family, especially your minor children to receive the sacraments if you refuse to attend this parish (which you say is the only one in your town).

 

[thomas_jd]

I have a question that I would like your thoughts on. I live in a town that only has one Catholic parish (not TLM). The priest of the parish is very liberal. He changes the liturgy by adding things that aren’t suppose to be there, taking things out that are suppose to be there, and changing the words of the prayers (even the Eucharistic Prayers). Masses there are very casual and irreverent. He even many times teaches things during his homily that are contrary to the Catholic Faith. I have no doubt that the Masses are valid, but they are clearly illicit from all of the abuses.

My wife and I also have four children (ages 9, 5, 2, and 5 months), and we don’t want them to be exposed to these things. We don’t want them to grow up thinking that this is how Mass is suppose to be celebrated, and we don’t want them to be exposed and influenced to some of the wrong things that this priest says and teaches. We’re afraid that it will harm their faith.

Now, my question is am I obligated to attend an illicit Mass such as this to fulfill my Sunday obligation? I wrote to the Saint Joseph Foundation (who are Canon Law experts) about this situation, and they responded that Canon Law does not address this issue, since it assumes that every Mass that is celebrated within the Church is licit.

So since Canon Law doesn’t address this issue, what are your thoughts on this?

Attend mass and write to the bishop. Once appointed the pastor has a tremendous amount of power. You as a member of the parish should be properly cathecized or there are remedys available to you. Fight the good fight. Be sure the pastor is wrong first.

 

[otjm]

Another issue is the issue of sacrilege. The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines sacrilege as:

Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin especially when committed against the Eucharist, for in this sacrament the true Body of Christ is made substantially present for us. (para. 2120)

This is what is happening at this Mass. Am I obligated to expose myself and my family to sacrilege? Am I obligated to expose myself and my family to the Body and Blood of Christ being treated unworthily and without respect and reverence? Even if I teach my children how Mass is suppose to be, children are still very impressionable with what they see and hear from others around them.

You have neither the training nor the wisdom to be able to interpret what you have written. Changing a few words in a part of a prayer (other than the words of Consecration) is not going to rise to the level of sacrilege, and if it did, it would not be your issue; it would be the priest’s to confess.

You do not have any reason to not attend Mass. Nothing that you have noted goes to validity of the Mass; and nothing so far you have noted appears to go to the licitness of the Mass as a whole, but rather to the licitness of the individual actions. Determination of the licitness of the whole Mass is way, way above your paygrade, of for that matter, almost everyone elese in these forae.

Your comments about damage to the faith are in essence a smoke screen. If you know as much of the faith as you imply, it is not going to damage your faith (although it will raise your blood pressure). And as to your children, they are going to learn far more about their faith from a catechism than they are from a homily. Most of what goes on that is contrary to what should go on will be things they will never notice, unless you choose to make a point out of it to them; at Which point, you need to question why you are telling them.

You are there to hear the Liturgy of the Word, participate in the Liturgy of the Eucharist, if in a state of grace, to receive Christ, and to worship God. You need to get your focus back on God and off the liturgical goofs that the priest makes. The Mass - and Christ - are larger than what the priest does when he modifies minor parts. He may be theologically incorrect in his homiles - all the more reason for you to do spiritual reading that builds you up.

And as to speaking to the priest - fine, if you don’t feel badly about being treated as a fool or an idiot, which is odds on what he is going to do to you. as to gaining any traction - you won’t.

As to writing to the bishop, there is no guarantee he will ever even see the letter; people have been writing to bishops since the altars were first turned around; it is now how many years later and what has happened? Not a whole lot. But if you have too much ink in your pen, feel free.

People have been writing to Rome. and how much has changed? Not a whole lot - but if you don’t mind paying the extra cost of sending the letter, and that much more ink spread over paper, feel free. Just don’t plan on any response.

Spend more time praying, and less time being a liturgical policeman. You are not going to solve this - at least by yourself. Your first duty is to Christ. Fulfill that, and let Christ work on the rest of it.

And by the way; you are making a judgement as to what the priest’s mental and moral state is when he says Mass. You might want to review what the Gospels say about that, most particularly since you don’t have a clue what his state is.

 

[baltobetsy]

Your comments about damage to the faith are in essence a smoke screen. If you know as much of the faith as you imply, it is not going to damage your faith (although it will raise your blood pressure). **And as to your children, they are going to learn far more about their faith from a catechism than they are from a homily. **Most of what goes on that is contrary to what should go on will be things they will never notice, unless you choose to make a point out of it to them; at Which point, you need to question why you are telling them.

Thank you, otjm, for an entire post that’s full of wisdom.

This paragraph struck me especially, and I’d like to add one thought. The children will learn more about their faith from their parents than from either a catechism or a homily. Should they be taught to stiffen their backs and harden their hearts and decide that they know better than the bishop and the pastor? Is that going to set them on fire with the love of God?

Betsy

 

[ServantofMary]

Most of what goes on that is contrary to what should go on will be things they will never notice, unless you choose to make a point out of it to them; at Which point, you need to question why you are telling them.

Of course, I point out to them how the Mass is suppose to be celebrated, and how it is not suppose to be celebrated. Why? Because, as Betsy said, the parents are responsible to teach their children the Faith, and the liturgy is one of the biggest ways that our Faith is passed on to others. As we believe, so we pray. When a priest changes the entire meaning of a prayer, it changes the beliefs that are being passed on. Now you may think it is okay for me to expose my young impressionable children to heretical beliefs, but I’m really struggling to be comfortable with that idea.

You need to get your focus back on God and off the liturgical goofs that the priest makes.

These are not “goofs.” I can overlook “goofs” easily, since we are all human and make mistakes. What I am talking about are deliberate and willful changes to the liturgy.

 

[paperwight]

When a priest changes the entire meaning of a prayer, it changes the beliefs that are being passed on. Now you may think it is okay for me to expose my young impressionable children to heretical beliefs, but I’m really struggling to be comfortable with that idea.

.

Could you give examples, please?

You’ve also said that the priest preaches things that are ‘contrary to the Catholic Faith’ but not given any examples of these, either.

I am wondering whether what you understand by the Catholic Faith is perhaps shaped by a very traditional upbringing (only surmising that you had one) and sometimes things like Friday abstinence (for example) were given an extreme value but were not, in fact, an essential part of the faith.

I thoroughly agree with previous posters who have implied that you will do more harm than good if you emphasise the things you disagree with when talking to your children. They are so very young!

In my experience, young children really do not take in that much from a Mass. They certainly don’t pick up heresies or finer points of theology from a homily, being more likely to be noticing a funny hat a lady is wearing, or a baby chewing a hymn-book. I think you are exaggarating any danger to their souls wa…yy too much, to be honest.

 

[Toni]

I would continue to go because the reason you are going is to receive the Eucharist. You need the Eucharist to keep yourself strong in the faith.

I would immediately however, write a letter to your bishop and explain, in charity, your concerns.

I would take this opportunity to nurture the children and help them to be good Catholics and tell them yourself why not every church is the same.

I would pray to Mary and ask her intercession by saying the rosary for this priest that he be shown his way are injuring the the Household of God.

Forgive the chiche, I feel your pain and sorrow and I will pray for you and your family.

Well said. Receive the Eucharist to remain strong in your faith and teach your children the faith at home. It is not easy but you can teach the truth and please continue to pray for your priest.

 

[CradleCath]

This is just so sad. The fact that a Father/Mother are concerned that their children would be harmed by attending a Catholic Mass. That illicit acts during Mass do happen quite often these days, that it does is bad enough, but to have children exposed to it…well, I’m just glad that my kids are raised. However, two of my Grandchildren were, at one time, part of a parish with the Church in the round…no kneelers…liturgical dancers…power point presentations broadcast on the wall beyond the “worship space”, etc., etc.

My son changed parishes because of it. He was lucky because Sacred Heart is not THAT far from his home. You, however, sound as if this is your only choice. I’m so sorry & I have no answer for you.

 

[otjm]

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with “my expectations.” It has everything to do with the expectations that the Church has of Her priests. The Church expects its priests to follow the prescribed liturgy according to the rubics. The Church expects its priests to have reverence in regards to the Body and Blood of Christ. The Church expects its priests to teach the Catholic Faith faithfully and accurately.

However, you are the one who is asking if you don’t have to attend Mass if the priest does soemthing other than follow the rubrics. So, in fact, you are making it your issue.

What the Church expects of the priest is between the priest and the bishop first and foremost, and if the bishop does not correct clear egregious errors and Rome decides to get involved, then between the priest and Rome.

It is rare for Rome to correct a priest; the only example I ahve off the top of my ehad is where Rome waded in when one or more priests were refusing to give Communion to someone who approached and knelt down (as refusing Communion is a Canonical penalty, Rome waded in).

And since it is only an issue between the priest and his bishop, you are welcome to write your letter to the bishop. Beyond that, (unless you want to write to Rome), it is not your issue. This issue has been going on since not long after the OF was promulgated, and that was some 40 years ago when goofiness started. That in and of itself should tell you something.

The short of it is that yes, this is an issue of the Church’s; it is also a fact of life that Rome does not micro manage the Church and all of its priests, or most of them, or many of them, or even a few of them on these issues.

And the rest of it is you are there to worship God, and granted that a priest not following the rubrics and spouting off goofy theology, or wrong theology is going to raise your blood pressure. That is no excuse let alone a reaso to miss Mass.

If you want it another way, take the advice of my grandmother (which I heard too often) - “Offer it up”.

 

[otjm]

I’m not simply talking about a “poorly celebrated Mass.” I’m talking about a Mass where the priest deliberately changes prayers, and adds and takes things out of the liturgy that the Church itself has prescribed.

Of course you are talking about deliberately made changes. Guess what - that’s been going on for 40 years or more. that doesn’t make it right; it is not. But it is absolutely no excuse, let alone a reason to not attend Mass. Your alternative is to find a Mass somewhere else, or deal with it. As I noted - offer it up.

Peter flat out denied he knew Christ - and Christ dealt with that, and made him Pope. Christ did not say we would have no errors - in theology or in practice. Neither has Rome promised that. Rome directs that priests follow the rubrics; in 2000 years Rome has never checked up on each priest, or even very many of them.

 

[otjm]

Salvation outside of the Church is another topic. But all I’ll say is that what this priest teaches is contrary to what the Church teaches (see my signature line below).

And you think he may be one of a very few who do?

Let’s put this in context: Hans Kung was not excommunicated for far worse than anything you have mentioned. He was removed from his position of teaching Catholic theology, and forbidden to do so in the future.

And Benedict 16 had lunch with him after B 16 was made Pope. I am sure they have agreed to disagree. And that is the farthest it has gone. Put this in perspective, please. It doesn’t reach to that level. The likelyhood that anyone - the bishop or Rome - is going to come over there and slap this priest’s hands and say “Naughty! Naughty” is so close to zero as to be indistinguisable, unless you can somehow get the bishop’s attention - and that is highly unlikely. People have been complaining of issues more serious than any you ahve brought up, and it has taken 40 years for some of that to die down.

 

[otjm]

What are you trying to say here? That God intends to punish us with having to attend His Mass done in poor taste, so there!!! ?

No, she said nothing of God punishing anyone. But the fact of the matter is that God does allow a whole lot of things to happen - He does not obviously micro manage the Church or the world.

I’m sorry but I would like to think we should enjoy worshipping God and seek those parishes which give him His rightful respect.

And I don’t think that Baltobetsy woiuld diasagree with you. The fact is, however, that we don’t always enjoy worshiping God, and not all have the privilege or ability to seek out other parishes. We get what we are dealt and we need to work with it when there are no alternatives.

 

[otjm]

Of course, I point out to them how the Mass is suppose to be celebrated, and how it is not suppose to be celebrated. Why? Because, as Betsy said, the parents are responsible to teach their children the Faith, and the liturgy is one of the biggest ways that our Faith is passed on to others. As we believe, so we pray. When a priest changes the entire meaning of a prayer, it changes the beliefs that are being passed on. Now you may think it is okay for me to expose my young impressionable children to heretical beliefs, but I’m really struggling to be comfortable with that idea.

You are lucky I am not your confessor, because I would absolutely keelhaul you. You need to do some serious examination of conscience if you are telling 9 year olds and younger that the priest is doing things wrong. Who gave you the right to destroy his character to small children? Who gave you the right to scandalize them? They would never have any wiff of scandal except for you.

These are not “goofs.” I can overlook “goofs” easily, since we are all human and make mistakes. What I am talking about are deliberate and willful changes to the liturgy.

I know what you are talking about - I have been around far longer than you have.

You are complaining about what the priest is doing and by your own admission seem to be turning the children you are responsible for agains their priest by showing them how he is wrong. And you call yourself Servant of Mary? Seems to me she watched the Roman soldiears crucify her Son at the behest of the leaders of her religion. And you think that you are a servant of hers? That you would even question whether or not you should be in church on your knees worshiping her Son because the priest does something wrong?

 

[ServantofMary]

Who gave you the right to destroy his character to small children? Who gave you the right to scandalize them? They would never have any wiff of scandal except for you.

I’m not destorying the priest’s character. I’m teaching my children the Catholic Faith. I’m teaching them right from wrong.

And you call yourself Servant of Mary? Seems to me she watched the Roman soldiears crucify her Son at the behest of the leaders of her religion. And you think that you are a servant of hers?

LOL! Are you actually trying to compare Mary watching her Son get crucified with me not being willing to expose my family to heresy, irreverence, and sacrilege??? LOL! I can’t believe it!

 

[otjm]

I’m not destorying the priest’s character. I’m teaching my children the Catholic Faith. I’m teaching them right from wrong.

Either you are completely bereft of common sense or that is pure unadulterated bull****. A 9 year old child does not need instructions on what the priest is doing wrong. For that matter, they don’t need instructions on the intricacies of the priest’s homily; they are young children.

Teaching them right from wrong is teaching them about their own behavior; not tearing down the character of the priest in the parish. You need to learn what “giving scandal” means; those kids would have no idea whatsoever that the priest did anything wrong unless and until you showed them what a bad person he was.

You are highly offended by that the priest does. I dont’t question that in the least; I agree with you that it is painful, tiresome, absolutely unnecessary and contrary to what the Church wants. But if you don’t know enough about your faith to know that you have an obligation to attend Mass even if the priest changes some fo the prayers - intentionally or otherwise - then I question whether you even know enough to know what prayers he may change. You certainly don’t know about liceity except in a vary vague fashion.

I am not defending the priest’s actions; but your reactions are so far over the top that you need to relearn a few things - if you ever knew them - about charity, about gossip, about giving scandal, and about attitudes. Your comments are bordering on a pharisaical approach to faith and the Mass. We all have a right to have the Mass said according to the rubrics. Many of us don’t get that. But teaching children right from wrong by telling them what the priest is doing is wrong smacks of false pride (“Daddy’s right and the priest is a bad person who is committing serious sins”), self satisfaction, self serving, and serious self righteousness.

LOL! Are you actually trying to compare Mary watching her Son get crucified with me not being willing to expose my family to heresy, irreverence, and sacrilege??? LOL! I can’t believe it!

You can’t believe it? No, you simply don’t get it. She was not criticising the Romans or the Jews; but you who think you are her servant criticize one of her priests. You should be instead praying for him instead of running him down to innocent children.

It is great to know that you are such a model of perfection, following faithfully the Church rules, since you seem to think you have the right to criticize others’ actions to innocent children. You think you are so Catholic and you have to ask if you have an obligation to attend one of his Masses?

 

[ServantofMary]

Either you are completely bereft of common sense or that is pure unadulterated bull****. A 9 year old child does not need instructions on what the priest is doing wrong.{/quote]

Are you here when I am teaching my children about the Catholic Faith, or about the liturgy? No, you are not. So how do you know that I am instructing them on what the priest is doing wrong? You don’t. The truth is that I’m not sitting around telling my children what the priest is dong wrong. What I am doing is teaching them about how the liturgy is done, about the different parts of Mass, about the symbolism of different actions in the liturgy, etc. These are things which all parents should do. It is my 9-year-old who then mentioned that our priest doesn’t do things the right way. So please don’t jump to the assumption that I going around and tearing our priest down to my children. I am not doing that, as I have already said.
otjm;6219023:

For that matter, they don’t need instructions on the intricacies of the priest’s homily; they are young children.

I don’t know about your children (or if you even have children) but my daughter comes home from Mass many times with questions about that the priest said in his homily. Am I suppose to answer her questions according to what the priest said, or by what the Catholic Church actually teaches? The correct answer is the latter. At her baptism I promised to raised her in the Catholic Faith, and that is what I am going to do. If that means that she realizes on her own that our priest teaches things that are contrary to that Faith, then so be it.

Teaching them right from wrong is teaching them about their own behavio;

Teaching our children right from wrong is more than simply teaching them about their own behavior. It also includes teaching them God’s truth, which is the doctrines of the Faith.

You are highly offended by that the priest does. I dont’t question that in the least; I agree with you that it is painful, tiresome, absolutely unnecessary and contrary to what the Church wants. But if you don’t know enough about your faith to know that you have an obligation to attend Mass even if the priest changes some fo the prayers - intentionally or otherwise - then I question whether you even know enough to know what prayers he may change.

The Church does not obligate anyone to expose their family to heresy, irreverence, and sacrilege. If it does, then please show me.

 

[otjm]

Are you here when I am teaching my children about the Catholic Faith, or about the liturgy? No, you are not. So how do you know that I am instructing them on what the priest is doing wrong? You don’t. The truth is that I’m not sitting around telling my children what the priest is dong wrong. What I am doing is teaching them about how the liturgy is done, about the different parts of Mass, about the symbolism of different actions in the liturgy, etc. These are things which all parents should do. It is my 9-year-old who then mentioned that our priest doesn’t do things the right way. So please don’t jump to the assumption that I going around and tearing our priest down to my children. I am not doing that, as I have already said.

Actually, what you have said has gone much farther in the direction you have taken it, and that is completely and totally unnecessary information to your children. Any 9 year old who is remarking about what the priest says or does and is marking out mistakes and changes that should not be made has been set up to do so. It is a cute game - tell them specifics that 100% of them would not know on their own, and tell them in such a way that it is plain even to them that they are being subjected to something not done correctly, and those who are intelligent will see the difference. It is called “coaching”. And 9 year olds can certainly be coached.

I don’t know about your children (or if you even have children) but my daughter comes home from Mass many times with questions about that the priest said in his homily. Am I suppose to answer her questions according to what the priest said, or by what the Catholic Church actually teaches? The correct answer is the latter. At her baptism I promised to raised her in the Catholic Faith, and that is what I am going to do. If that means that she realizes on her own that our priest teaches things that are contrary to that Faith, then so be it.

The correct answer is to answer a question in such a way that the child is not given enough information to stand in the same place of judgement that her parent does. Don’t play cute; I have raised children too. And I know there is more than one way to answer a question - and you do too. Further, I know enough of my own sinfulness that I make a point of avoiding pointing out others’ sinfulness. You might try the same.

Teaching our children right from wrong is more than simply teaching them about their own behavior. It also includes teaching them God’s truth, which is the doctrines of the Faith.

It also includes teaching in an age-appropriate manner, in a way that does not induce jugementalism.

The Church does not obligate anyone to expose their family to heresy, irreverence, and sacrilege. If it does, then please show me.

Try the 10 Commandments and the CCC, that might be a good place to start. You are obligated to go to Mass; the Mass being said is licit, althought there may be some illicit parts and actions; a wrong homily or the potential for a wrong homily does not relieve the obligation to go, and you need to refocus on what the Mass itself is about and return the badge of liturgical policeman to whomever gave it to you. Furthermore, you have yet to show enough grasp of the faith to be able to identify sacrilege. Sorry - that dog don’t hunt.

Like I said - this can be found somewhere in probably just about every diocese in the US. welcome to reality. You can also write your bishop if you feel there is too much ink in your pen. In the meanwhile, the obligation stands. If you spent a little more time focusing on Christ during Mass and a little less time trying to catch the priest in whatever variation he serves up, most of this would become moot.

And if it is aggrivating your soul as much as it seems to, then go to the next parish available. You are obliged to attend Mass; if this is the only one available, then the answer is to refocus your attention.

 

[ServantofMary]

Actually, what you have said has gone much farther in the direction you have taken it, and that is completely and totally unnecessary information to your children.

Teaching my children about Mass is “unnecessary information”? I completely disagree.

Any 9 year old who is remarking about what the priest says or does and is marking out mistakes and changes that should not be made has been set up to do so. It is a cute game - tell them specifics that 100% of them would not know on their own, and tell them in such a way that it is plain even to them that they are being subjected to something not done correctly, and those who are intelligent will see the difference. It is called “coaching”. And 9 year olds can certainly be coached.

Let me see here… I teach my children about the liturgy, and my 9-year-old is intelligent enough to mention that that is not how our priest does it, and you call it coaching??? LOL! I call it a smart girl!

The correct answer is to answer a question in such a way that the child is not given enough information to stand in the same place of judgement that her parent does. Don’t play cute; I have raised children too. And I know there is more than one way to answer a question - and you do too. Further, I know enough of my own sinfulness that I make a point of avoiding pointing out others’ sinfulness. You might try the same.

I have never pointed out another person’s sinfulness to my children. Of course, you wouldn’t know that, since you’re not personally there when I’m teaching my children. You’re just assuming that I do that. In fact, you have seemed to jump to a lot of assumptions about me.

Try the 10 Commandments and the CCC, that might be a good place to start.

Really? Please show me in the 10 Commandments or in the CCC where I am obligated to expose my family to heresy, irreverence, and sacrilege?

 

[otjm]

Teaching my children about Mass is “unnecessary information”? I completely disagree.

To begin with, I did not say that and you know it. I can teach a nine year old about the Mass without ever getting to the point that they would be aware that the priest did something wrong. You could too, but you like teaching them in a way that the priest is torn down - or you would do it differently.

Let me see here… I teach my children about the liturgy, and my 9-year-old is intelligent enough to mention that that is not how our priest does it, and you call it coaching??? LOL! I call it a smart girl!

I hav been around far more 9 year olds than you realize. Any 9 year old who was spoting those differences are because you taught them knowing that you were highlighting what the priest was doing wrong. 9 year olds don’t pick that up on their own - they are coached.

have never pointed out another person’s sinfulness to my children. Of course, you wouldn’t know that, since you’re not personally there when I’m teaching my children. You’re just assuming that I do that. In fact, you have seemed to jump to a lot of assumptions about me.

Assumptions? Or simply conclusions from what you write? Or do you think you are opaque?

Really? Please show me in the 10 Commandments or in the CCC where I am obligated to expose my family to heresy, irreverence, and sacrilege?

If you have to ask if you have an obligation to go to Mass in this parish, then you do not seem to have the education to be able to determine what is heresey and what is not. You have yet to show that what you deem irreverence is anything other than an over-reaction; and you don’t know the meaning of sacriliege. I have answered your question: you have an obligation to go to Mass each Sunday; if you cannot find another Mass, this one is licit overall and there is no justification to not go.

The question has been asked, and it has been answered repeatedly. The conversation is at an end; I have given my answer and you don’t like it. That is about your eternal salvation; I am taking care of mine. I have gone to Masses where there have been changes to the rubrics, and where the priest has given off with some half-cocked personal philosophy at odds with Church teachings. I kept going because Christ was there, and the priest was not going to run me off.

You seem far more interested in the rubrics than you seem in Christ, or you would not persist in the same question. That is your issue, not mine. No priest could keep me away from Christ; you seem ready to abandon Christ because of yours. I am sorry for you and your family. And I say your choice is the wrong one. But then, I have said the same thing to others - that they were making the wrong choice; and they persisted anyway, and it was to their detriment. When people ask my opinion, I give it. I gave you mine, and you don’t like it. That is your choice. I don’t like your persistence in letting a priest run you off from Christ. But that is your choice.