Sunday School: Children Leaving Mass?

[filsdefournet]

Hello all!

My question is this: I’ve been to masses before in which the children were excused right before the first reading; they are called up, blessed, and then sent out to go to “sunday school.” The fact that they left mass struck me as very, very odd.

1. Isn’t it problematic to have people leaving the church in the middle of mass without a serious reason?
2. Is this accounted for in any rubrics?
3. Isn’t this just a protestant tradition carried over into the RCC?

Thanks for your answers!

 

[chaunceygardner]

This is done at our parish, during just one of the Masses each Sunday. My observation is that the children who leave before the first reading and return after the homily are the younger children, say ages 4-8. The lessons and activities are focused on the readings for that Sunday, so that they get an understanding of them at their level. I am not familiar with what rules cover this. Having been a child of that age at Mass, and bringing my own children of that age to Mass, I wish that would have been available for us back then. For most children of that age, the readings and homily are way over their heads and they in essence tune out. So having this alternative for young children makes a lot of sense. Plus it enables them to move around a little bit, so they aren’t so antsy sitting in the pews for the rest of Mass (hopefully).

I don’t know if many Protestant churches do this. My thinking is that many have extensive Sunday School programs before or after their services, with programs for all ages. I suspect it varies between denominations. Maybe our Protestant members here will chime in on that question.

 

[1ke]

Hello all!

My question is this: I’ve been to masses before in which the children were excused right before the first reading; they are called up, blessed, and then sent out to go to “sunday school.” The fact that they left mass struck me as very, very odd.

I believe you are referring to the Children’s Liturgy of the Word, not “Sunday School”.

1. Isn’t it problematic to have people leaving the church in the middle of mass without a serious reason?

No.

Catechumens are also dismissed, albeit at a different time and for a different reason.

1. Is this accounted for in any rubrics?

Yes.

“Decree and Directory for Masses with Children”

Masses for Adults at which Children are Also Present, #17: Sometimes, moreover, if the place itself and the nature of the community permit, it will be appropriate to celebrate the liturgy of the word, including a homily, with the children in a separate, but not too distant, room. Then, before the Eucharistic liturgy begins, the children are led to the place where the adults have meanwhile celebrated their own liturgy of the word.

1. Isn’t this just a protestant tradition carried over into the RCC?

No. Not in the least.

 

[filsdefournet]

Very well, then – thanks, ke!

 

[Irishgal49]

Hello all!

My question is this: I’ve been to masses before in which the children were excused right before the first reading; they are called up, blessed, and then sent out to go to “sunday school.” The fact that they left mass struck me as very, very odd.

1. Isn’t it problematic to have people leaving the church in the middle of mass without a serious reason?
2. Is this accounted for in any rubrics?
3. Isn’t this just a protestant tradition carried over into the RCC?

Thanks for your answers!

In the early church those who were studying to become Catholic/catechumens were excused before Communion. In fact, Easter Vigil was their first Eucharist so there is precedent for it. When I was in RCIA, we were dismissed from Mass after the homily for our RCIA class.

I personally would jump up and down with joy if we did this. I like the idea of the children being there for part of the Mass and then going to a class that will speak to them in a way that they can understand. Also children can have very short attention spans (I know there are exceptions). I would much rather have that than the little boy who was SLAMMING his toy truck on the pew all through the homily in the row behind me and I could not hear a word–and no-- the parents did nothing. It was so bad that probably about 1/3 of the congregation looked over at him. The parents were just sitting there, reading a bulletin. What makes it worse is that we have the most amazing cry room you have ever seen. It’s glass and is actually in the sanctuary. It’s soundproof so you can take kids in there and still very much be part of what’s going on. I have sat in there before when I was late and didn’t want to disturb everyone.

I think having them go to a class woud be awesome. Count on my vote!

 

[englishredrose]

and many protestant churches do call children forward to leave at varying times of the service. And Anglican and Church of England all do so if they have adults who are willng to leave the service at this time too.

services are very long for children and it is cruel to keep them sitting there in silence when its all above their heads. They fidget and get told off etc the sermons usually well beyond their means though some try to listen I’ve noticed. But twenty minutes is borderlne too long for most adults to listen to the priest. So children are going to find it very hard. Why should they sit there and suffer and not understand a word of it when they can have the choice of doing age related activities?

so far better if they can go and join other children in a side hall etc and do activities to their age range that connect to the theme that day.

 

[filsdefournet]

Well, I am a parent of a 1.5 year old, so I understand the squirminess in the mass.

And, let me just preface this next remark by saying that I do not contest the authority of the Church in this matter.

Still, I can’t help but think that taking the children out of the mass into a little room changes the entire dynamic of receiving the Word of God. The readings, if properly given, should be attended with solemnity (in the case of the Alleluia and Responsorial Psalm – chant, obviously!) and veneration (CCC 1154) – and are even characterized as analogous to venerating the Eucharist:

For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body (CCC 103).

So, to take kids out of that setting and plop them into a room with a catechist, entirely divorced from the beauty and veneration properly given in the mass, seems… askew. It seems to demote the liturgical experience of the Scripture down to a bible study. They may not understand everything, but the experience itself should co-nature them to the beauty of the scriptures and the proper disposition towards them.

 

[mikelionheart]

They do this at my church also.

It is a fantastic thing.

Gets families involved in being catechists.
Gets children looking forward to mass.
Gives children better teaching as it’s more on their level.

I love it.

 

[PatriceA]

They do this at my church also.

It is a fantastic thing.

Gets families involved in being catechists.
Gets children looking forward to mass.
Gives children better teaching as it’s more on their level.

I love it.

We loved it too. But, there was an age that we had our own “cut off” for letting our daughter participate. I don’t know about every parish, but in ours the age range is all the way up to 4th grade. Once our daughter was preparing for her First Communion, that was it, she was to stay in the pew with us.

 

[1ke]

Well, I am a parent of a 1.5 year old, so I understand the squirminess in the mass.

And, let me just preface this next remark by saying that I do not contest the authority of the Church in this matter.

Still, I can’t help but think that taking the children out of the mass into a little room changes the entire dynamic of receiving the Word of God. The readings, if properly given, should be attended with solemnity (in the case of the Alleluia and Responsorial Psalm – chant, obviously!) and veneration (CCC 1154) – and are even characterized as analogous to venerating the Eucharist:

So, to take kids out of that setting and plop them into a room with a catechist, entirely divorced from the beauty and veneration properly given in the mass, seems… askew. It seems to demote the liturgical experience of the Scripture down to a bible study. They may not understand everything, but the experience itself should co-nature them to the beauty of the scriptures and the proper disposition towards them.

Then you may simply decline to participate on behalf of your children and do what you believe is best for their spiritual development. SOme parishes makes Liturgy of the Word for Children available, that does not mean you must send your child.

 

[mikelionheart]

Well I don’t know what 4th grade means.

There is a 14 year old girl who sometimes goes into the children’s liturgy. She goes to help out. I think this is also a good thing. Young people helping shepherd even younger people and helping them with their faith.
She then has the decision whether or not to remain in the church for the normal liturgy of the word.
This is good. They will need to make their own decisions anyway, whether to attend church in the first place or to get confirmed. It remains her decision and is an opportunity for young people to have ownership over their decisions about their faith.

 

[filsdefournet]

Then you may simply decline to participate on behalf of your children and do what you believe is best for their spiritual development. SOme parishes makes Liturgy of the Word for Children available, that does not mean you must send your child.

Absolutely. I’m just musing out loud here.

 

[PatriceA]

Well I don’t know what 4th grade means.

There is a 14 year old girl who sometimes goes into the children’s liturgy. She goes to help out. I think this is also a good thing. Young people helping shepherd even younger people and helping them with their faith.
She then has the decision whether or not to remain in the church for the normal liturgy of the word.
This is good. They will need to make their own decisions anyway, whether to attend church in the first place or to get confirmed. It remains her decision and is an opportunity for young people to have ownership over their decisions about their faith.

4th grade, ages 9-10.

 

[Brendan]

Well I don’t know what 4th grade means.

Year 4, Key Stage 2, about 9 years old.

 

[Joannm]

We do our Children’s Liturgy of the Word in our chapel. It has an altar, candles, ambo, stained glass windows The children sing the psalm and Gospel acclamation, say the Creen and petitions. The only difference is that we only have one reading before the Gospel and use the children’s lectionary. The reflection (we don’t call it a homily since a lay person does it) is often done as a dialogue with the children. We come back to the church during the collection.

 

[Phemie]

Well, I am a parent of a 1.5 year old, so I understand the squirminess in the mass.

And, let me just preface this next remark by saying that I do not contest the authority of the Church in this matter.

Still, I can’t help but think that taking the children out of the mass into a little room changes the entire dynamic of receiving the Word of God. The readings, if properly given, should be attended with solemnity (in the case of the Alleluia and Responsorial Psalm – chant, obviously!) and veneration (CCC 1154) – and are even characterized as analogous to venerating the Eucharist:

So, to take kids out of that setting and plop them into a room with a catechist, entirely divorced from the beauty and veneration properly given in the mass, seems… askew. It seems to demote the liturgical experience of the Scripture down to a bible study. They may not understand everything, but the experience itself should co-nature them to the beauty of the scriptures and the proper disposition towards them.

The Canadian Bishops issued a document on this. In essence they say:

• It should not be a regular occurence, noting that the Directory on Masses with Children speaks of ‘sometimes’ and should be dictated by the contents of the readings more than anything else.
• It should only involve children from ages 4 to 8 or until they’ve received their First Communion. Younger than that is babysitting, not liturgy.
• No child should be made to go for any reason.
• The Liturgy of the Word with Children is to follow exactly the same format as the Liturgy of the Word for adults with two differences: there need only be one reading other than the Gospel and the Children’s Lectionary may be used.
• There is to be a Psalm and a Gospel Acclamation.
• If paper and crayons/pencils come into play you are not doing it right. It’s a liturgy not a craft session.
• The children had to return for the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

I know it can be done properly because I’ve seen it done properly by the catechist who was preparing the children for First Communion (although it was too frequent). Unfortunately it was also done improperly by women who insisted that if we limited it to 4+ year olds they would no longer be able to come to Mass because they couldn’t control their little ones in the pews. Now it takes in all ages and it’s a craft session and it makes me want to drink.

 

[filsdefournet]

We do our Children’s Liturgy of the Word in our chapel. It has an altar, candles, ambo, stained glass windows The children sing the psalm and Gospel acclamation, say the Creen and petitions. The only difference is that we only have one reading before the Gospel and use the children’s lectionary. The reflection (we don’t call it a homily since a lay person does it) is often done as a dialogue with the children. We come back to the church during the collection.

That seems like a good compromise.

Is the children’s lectionary the same translation as the adult lectionary?

 

[Irishgal49]

That seems like a good compromise.

I LOVE it! How wonderful for your parish to do that. It’s about time a church/priest realized that children are NOT little adults, they have needs and this works and not to “get rid of them” but, rather, to offer them an age appropriate way to understand the readings. I agree with having them stay after first communion.

Kudos to your parish!

 

[Phemie]

That seems like a good compromise.

Is the children’s lectionary the same translation as the adult lectionary?

No, the children’s Lectionary is simplified language, but it has been approved for use by both the USCCB and the CCCB.

It’s not the best translation but it’s understandable to a 4 or 5 year old.

 

[filsdefournet]

The Canadian Bishops issued a document on this. In essence they say:

• It should not be a regular occurence, noting that the Directory on Masses with Children speaks of ‘sometimes’ and should be dictated by the contents of the readings more than anything else.
• It should only involve children from ages 4 to 8 or until they’ve received their First Communion. Younger than that is babysitting, not liturgy.
• No child should be made to go for any reason.
• The Liturgy of the Word with Children is to follow exactly the same format as the Liturgy of the Word for adults with two differences: there need only be one reading other than the Gospel and the Children’s Lectionary may be used.
• There is to be a Psalm and a Gospel Acclamation.
• If paper and crayons/pencils come into play you are not doing it right. It’s a liturgy not a craft session.
• The children had to return for the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

I know it can be done properly because I’ve seen it done properly by the catechist who was preparing the children for First Communion (although it was too frequent). Unfortunately it was also done improperly by women who insisted that if we limited it to 4+ year olds they would no longer be able to come to Mass because they couldn’t control their little ones in the pews. Now it takes in all ages and it’s a craft session and it makes me want to drink.

That sounds quite good; as best as can be expected, one imagines.

No, the children’s Lectionary is simplified language, but it has been approved for use by both the USCCB and the CCCB.

It’s not the best translation but it’s understandable to a 4 or 5 year old.

Ah. Thanks clarifying that!