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Lost_Sheep
Guest
The right to bear arms is explicitly written into the Constitution. Abortions and gay marriages are not and are subject to the whim of the courts.
Your argument is invalid.
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Your argument is invalid.
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chero23
Guest
All the sources which I showed you won’t agree with, that’s bc like I said, it is not to your convenience.
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chero23
Guest
Of course, this is all about you. Everybody who disgrees with you is just wrong.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
In addition to everything else, you don’t seem to know much about history either.
The Declaration of Independence was written in 1776. The Constitution was written in 1787; four years after the Revolutionary War. We were free of England by then.
Article II of the Bill of Rights (the “Second Amendment”) states: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A militia refers to an armed citizenry; not a military defense force, and the phrase “security of a free State” refers to the freedom of the people.
While it is true that the United States did not have a full-time standing military at the time and did rely on its citizens for national defense, the primary reason was provide a check and balance of the government and the people.
Uh, the tyrannical we are worried about is our own government; not that of a foreign power.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
And what must we do to “take it seriously?” Prohibit everyone from carrying a gun in public because one person is afraid?
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captainrick
Guest
No, it’s not about Lost_Sheep, it’s about knowing the Constitution. I’m an attorney, and my opinion is that Lost_Sheep is correct concerning the cited provisions of the U.S. Constitution.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
Which is another way of saying you cannot produce any real proof.
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RGCheek
Guest
No, it is not.
There was once a Michigan legislature that almost passed a law defining pi as the whole number 3. Luckily for everyone someone talked them out of it. Had they passed that stupid law it would not have changed the value of pi, nor does passing idiot laws change the definition of what something is in fields of technical, engineering, math or science.
An ‘assault weapon’ is a high powered rifle that is capable of full auto fire and is of military grade. An idiot gaggle of lawyers cannot change that, they can only make themselves look like fools.
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RGCheek
Guest
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RGCheek
Guest
Only if you don’t have the license for them. Silencers are legal as well with the appropriate licensing.
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RGCheek
Guest
IT is my opinion drawn from my spectating, participating and reading about GOP and Dem political machinations since I was 8 years old listening to my grandfather explain why the Civil Rights bill was needed in 1966.
The GOP elite is mostly a bunch of old Rockefeller Republicans reinforced with neocon exiles from the old Democrat Scoop Jackson wing after the McGovernites ran them out in 72.
And they despise rank and file conservatives, especially values voter conservatives whom they know would not approve of the elites decadent lifestyle.
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RGCheek
Guest
Wrong.
The Bill of Rights was initiated in 1789, twelve years after your date and well after the Revolution had succeeded.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
I would say an ‘assault rifle’ is the appropriate term that meets your definition. Hence the reason the lawyers/politicians invented the term ‘assault weapon’ and in some jurisdictions have legally defined it.
While I in many ways agree with you that it’s a trumped up term to confuse folks into thinking that newly manufactured full-auto weapons are still available for sale and in wide use , the fact remains that it ‘assault weapon’ is defined in CA law. So, it does have a legal meaning in CA, whether I like it or not.
leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=pen&codebody=&hits=20
"30510. As used in this chapter and in Sections 16780, 17000, and
27555, “assault weapon” means the following designated semiautomatic
firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models
identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and
86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
(1) UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(c) All of the following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc. SS/12.
(d) Any firearm declared to be an assault weapon by the court
pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of
Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989, Section 1 of Chapter 874 of the
Statutes of 1990, or Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of
1991, which is specified as an assault weapon in a list promulgated
pursuant to former Section 12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of
Chapter 954 of the Statutes of 1991.
(e) This section is declaratory of existing law and a
clarification of the law and the Legislature’s intent which bans the
weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in the list
promulgated by the Attorney General pursuant to former Section
12276.5, as it read in Section 3 of Chapter 954 of the Statutes of
1991, and any other models that are only variations of those weapons
with minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer. The
Legislature has defined assault weapons as the types, series, and
models listed in this section because it was the most effective way
to identify and restrict a specific class of semiautomatic weapons.
(f) As used in this section, “series” includes all other models
that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models
listed in subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.
… (continued)
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styrgwillidar
Guest
… (continuing)
BENELLI MP90 .22LR
BENELLI MP90 .32 S&W LONG
BENELLI MP95 .22LR
BENELLI MP95 .32 S&W LONG
HAMMERLI 280 .22LR
HAMMERLI 280 .32 S&W LONG
HAMMERLI SP20 .22LR
HAMMERLI SP20 .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI GPO .22 SHORT
PARDINI GP-SCHUMANN .22 SHORT
PARDINI HP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI MP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI SP .22LR
PARDINI SPE .22LR
WALTHER GSP .22LR
WALTHER GSP .32 S&W LONG
WALTHER OSP .22 SHORT
WALTHER OSP-2000 .22 SHORT
(3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is
consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (b) to exempt new
models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the
definition of “assault weapon” pursuant to this section from being
classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may
be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the
regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be
based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that
the department deems relevant."
- (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also
means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length
of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(b) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in
exempting from the definition of “assault weapon” pistols that are
designed expressly for use in Olympic target shooting events.
Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned by the International
Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body
for international shooting competition in the United States, and that
were used for Olympic target shooting purposes as of January 1,
2001, and that would otherwise fall within the definition of “assault
weapon” pursuant to this section are exempt, as provided in
subdivision (c).
(c) “Assault weapon” does not include either of the following:
(1) Any antique firearm.
(2) Any of the following pistols, because they are consistent with
the significant public purpose expressed in subdivision (b):
BENELLI MP90 .22LR
BENELLI MP90 .32 S&W LONG
BENELLI MP95 .22LR
BENELLI MP95 .32 S&W LONG
HAMMERLI 280 .22LR
HAMMERLI 280 .32 S&W LONG
HAMMERLI SP20 .22LR
HAMMERLI SP20 .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI GPO .22 SHORT
PARDINI GP-SCHUMANN .22 SHORT
PARDINI HP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI MP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI SP .22LR
PARDINI SPE .22LR
WALTHER GSP .22LR
WALTHER GSP .32 S&W LONG
WALTHER OSP .22 SHORT
WALTHER OSP-2000 .22 SHORT
(3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is
consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (b) to exempt new
models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the
definition of “assault weapon” pursuant to this section from being
classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may
be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the
regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be
based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that
the department deems relevant."
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RGCheek
Guest
What is it about a protruding pistol grip that changes a rifle into an assault weapon? Because it makes the liberal gun control wacko feel threatened?
This is how bad law and government rule by fiat works; bad laws followed by discriminatory enforcement and arbitrary rulings by bureaucrats and judges.
A 22 rifle with a threaded barrel and pistol grip is not an assault weapon and passing a law saying it is so makes it no more an assault weapon than a law saying that ‘pi = 3’ makes pi = 3.
Yes, the congress of California has shown themselves to be a bunch of buffoons and idiots.
This is how bad law and government rule by fiat works; bad laws followed by discriminatory enforcement and arbitrary rulings by bureaucrats and judges.
A 22 rifle with a threaded barrel and pistol grip is not an assault weapon and passing a law saying it is so makes it no more an assault weapon than a law saying that ‘pi = 3’ makes pi = 3.
Yes, the congress of California has shown themselves to be a bunch of buffoons and idiots.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Yep, completely agree. And when some ill-informed person with no knowledge of firearms (like the idiots who wrote these laws) tries to lecture me on folks not having ‘assault weapons’, I ask them to please define what they mean. I then point out that what they describe-- usually rifles of medium caliber capable of firing full or burst automatic fire aren’t what the law says (there’s a technical term for those-- assault rifle). I point out it includes pistols, shotguns, etc. etc. etc. having features some person involved in writing the law thought were scary, cosmetic features. Or worse…
…some of the laws make the weapons less safe. Detachable mag weapons are easier to unload and verify they’re unloaded- every range makes folks remove the magazine - even if it’s a fixed mag with a ‘bullet button’ requiring a tool vice a simple release lever/button and lock the bolt back when the range is cold. It’s safer. Making it more difficult to do things safely means folks are less likely to do them. Making detachable magazines a criterion for classification as ‘assault weapon’ is just unsafe.
BTW- Loaded chamber indicators, IMHO, risk folks developing the lazy habit pattern of relying on that mechanical device (which can fail) vice physically/visually checking the actual chamber.
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RGCheek
Guest
Totally agree. Until you visually verify that a guns chamber is unloaded, you should treat it as though it were loaded.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Absolutely, but folks writing the laws don’t know anything – and apparently don’t want to know anything about firearms. That’s the problem when folks start talking about less or more support for increased gun laws, very much depends on the details in the law. When all the folks proposing new laws after a shooting incident then turn around and admit they wouldn’t have prevented the incident it leads to the question-- Then why are you proposing this law?
Here’s another bit of insanity in the law, which you may already be familiar with.
The AR modular platform-
The feds define a short barreled rifle (SBR) as having an overall length less than 26” and/or a barrel less than 16”.
-You can build one of those IAW the NFA regulations filing the appropriate forms, paying the $200 tax and conducting transfers IAW the NFA in the future.
Except, you can’t in California because CA defines any semi-auto rifle with overall length less than 30” with stock fully collapsed as an assault weapon.
But, you can take an AR receiver and use it to build either a pistol or a rifle. So, take the same lower receiver and you can create a pistol much shorter than 26” with a barrel length far shorter than 16”. Completely legal under both federal and California law and doesn’t fall under the NFA, with the only real difference being the type of buffer/stock you put on it. That is, you put a pistol/buffer and grip vice a rifle buffer and stock on it.
[Then there is constructive possession. If you happen to have the parts to build an SBR i.e. someone shipped you a pistol barreled upper with a rifle buffer and stock; or you intend on building a pistol and happen to have a rifle stock and buffer or complete lower (i.e. with rifle buffer and stock attached) in your possession and the pistol barreled upper gets to you prior to the pistol buffer and grip-- you’re in violation of the NFA. (now, I’ve never personally wanted an AR based pistol, but hey, different strokes for different folks and I understand the LEGOs-for-adults appeal of the modular AR).]
Not a lawyer, and frankly if I were considering building ARs- particularly pistols- I’d seriously contemplate getting a law degree.
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RGCheek
Guest
IT almost requires one to deal in ARs or any auto-rifle, but maybe that’s the whole point?
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