Support for Prop 19 Declining

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People - do your own research and never rely on opinions. Please.

Drug Enforcement Agency

justice.gov/dea/ongoing/legalization.html

Michigan plans on using devices to measure the amount of marijuana in a driver’s bloodstream. Right after this was announced, I heard the following on TV from a police officer: “I was contacted by a young man who accused me of wanting to take away his fun.”

Marijuana rehab right now.

4rehabilitation.com/marijuana/

If you consider yourself educated then get all of the facts. Please.

God bless,
Ed
 
Using information from the DEA about marijuana is like citing the risks of smoking cigarettes according to Lucky Strike in the 60s.

Please read the SCIENTIFIC SOURCES THEMSELVES about marijuana. Not from the government or prescription drug companies, as these two bodies obviously benefit from prohibition of MJ.

Before you believe or disbelieve something in print, ask yourself if the publisher has reason to support one side or the other.

The DEA is corrupt waste of people’s money. The government and drug cartels are better off, everyone else worse off.

Finally, if you think the “war on drugs” is working, go to the local bustation and you will find a hookup in less than 5 minutes.
 
The gateway argument is a fallacy. If it wasn’t, you could equally argue that nicotine or alcohol lead to those things, as well. And neither are illegal (right now, they were in the past).
Exactly. However I do believe the fact that we keep pot illegal makes it gateway drug through association. In other words the same guy who sells pot might just as well sell a more dangerous drug, or at the very least know where to get it for somebody who’s interested.
 
Actually different types of marijuana causes different “highs” if you will. That’s because depending on the strain, it’s age, and quality of growth, marijuana varies greatly on THC and other cannabaniod content. As a result How “high” you get is going to depend on how much smoke/vape/eat. Some strains you’ll need to use more to reach a certain “high”, others less will be needed. Marijuana users will often try to buy the same type of pot so they can be accustomed to it and thus know much to use to obtain level of “high” they wish. If marijuana was regulated this would be easier to do, because a pot user doesn’t know what weed he’s getting when come from illicit sources like Mexican cartels. Although if his supply stays constant I suppose he’ll learn how much to use, but even so most illicit weed is inferior to medical(legal) pot grown in America, This is because when grown legally,a person can put the time into growing decent strains in a good control setting.
Well let me put it more bluntly - people smoke marijuana to get high, and any who argues otherwise is full of it. Beer tastes good. It doesn’t make you ‘hack and cough’ if it’s really good, it just tastes good, so I’ll have one or two after a hard day at work or watching my Skins play on Sunday. There is that control. I’ll agree that some strains of marijuana are more potent than others, but the effect is the same. You may only want to get a little bit high, but the whole purpose is reaching that level. I can have a beer or two and not feel the effects, but with marijuana, the intent is to get high, to get those effects.

And as for the ‘not a gateway’ drug argument, I’ll speak from experience. I can name several friends and fraternity brothers who were frequent users of marijuana (ranging from weekly to daily), and every single one of them has at least tried some heavier drugs, many times on more occasions. There were several fraternity brothers who eventually struggled with cocaine usage for awhile, but they have fortunately overcome that now. But it is that search for a better high. It’s not a guarantee that smoking pot will cause you to move on to heavier drugs, but when have you heard of someone going straight to heroin without using marijuana first?

I think of it as that friend who likes to ‘smoke when they drink.’ Chances are they won’t become a full-on smoker, but the more they enjoy that feel, the more they chase that buzz. And when it stops happening, they try smoking more to get it, and that’s when it they get hooked.
 
If Jerry Brown wins, pot won’t be the reason.
Meg Whitman is a pro-abort, too, and is more likely to support corporations, not schools and families. Jerry Brown has done great work in the past. He could do great now, too. Whitman will support the bank, which took over the mortgage company after they illegally sucked all of their clients dry, in taking my family’s home.
The gateway argument is a fallacy. If it wasn’t, you could equally argue that nicotine or alcohol lead to those things, as well. And neither are illegal (right now, they were in the past).
I have seen people go from cigarettes to heavy drugs. A friend of mine who was a smoker decided to get involved in heavier drugs. She abandoned her family - her husband, who had found out he had lymphoma, and their daughter. Her husband died a couple years later, and her daughter was raised by her in-laws. My friend eventually got help and quit, but she missed out on so much. All because of cigarettes.

I watched my aunt die of alcoholism. That was not easy. It was down-right depressing and frightening.

Just because something is legal does not make it right. Abortion, euthanasia, fornication, and contraception are legal, and, as Catholics, we know those are not right. In some places, prostitution is legal, and we know that’s not right, either. Again, just because something is legal does not make it right.
 
Lol gotta love the “only have a couple drinks because it tastes good” crowd. You may not lose coordination but your brain is functioning differently. Not to mention the placebo effects if it is a daily ritual.
 
Well let me put it more bluntly - people smoke marijuana to get high, and any who argues otherwise is full of it. Beer tastes good. It doesn’t make you ‘hack and cough’ if it’s really good, it just tastes good, so I’ll have one or two after a hard day at work or watching my Skins play on Sunday. There is that control. I’ll agree that some strains of marijuana are more potent than others, but the effect is the same. You may only want to get a little bit high, but the whole purpose is reaching that level. I can have a beer or two and not feel the effects, but with marijuana, the intent is to get high, to get those effects.
True, but what is wrong with that, if a person maintains their reason and health? A person could have a couple of hard drinks instead of the 2 beers you described that be perfectly fine, morally. Furthermore they could have the intent of getting “buzzed”(not drunk) of that amount of alcohol, that be perfectly fine as well. The idea having your mind affected by alcohol or marijuana of isn’t immoral. The bible even condones alcohol, in moderation, to “make glad the heart of man.”
Keep in mind I’m not trying to dish out a red herring, by discussing alcohol, but I am trying to point out that the idea of using a substance like marijuana or alcohol to make you more joyful isn’t immoral. Providing, as I said before, that a person doesn’t become addicted to that joy(uses in moderation), and respects their health(which should be a problem if they use in moderation).
And as for the ‘not a gateway’ drug argument, I’ll speak from experience. I can name several friends and fraternity brothers who were frequent users of marijuana (ranging from weekly to daily), and every single one of them has at least tried some heavier drugs, many times on more occasions. There were several fraternity brothers who eventually struggled with cocaine usage for awhile, but they have fortunately overcome that now. But it is that search for a better high. It’s not a guarantee that smoking pot will cause you to move on to heavier drugs, but when have you heard of someone going straight to heroin without using marijuana first?
Have you every heard of a person going straight to heroin without using alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, chocolate(theobromine)? I hardly believe it was the marijuana that made your friends try harder drugs, rather marijuana was the first illegal drug they tried. The fact that marijuana is illegal probably helped give them connections to harder drugs as well I suppose.
I think of it as that friend who likes to ‘smoke when they drink.’ Chances are they won’t become a full-on smoker, but the more they enjoy that feel, the more they chase that buzz. And when it stops happening, they try smoking more to get it, and that’s when it they get hooked.
I agree. Though I will say some are more predisposed to this than others.Depends how motivated a person is in life. If their life is like feather in the wind, no consistent direction, then the potential for smoking marijuana on frequent basis is more likely. However, if they are motivated towards a career or some other goal in life, generally, they’re less likely to smoke on a frequent basis.
 
Lol gotta love the “only have a couple drinks because it tastes good” crowd. You may not lose coordination but your brain is functioning differently. Not to mention the placebo effects if it is a daily ritual.
It is absolutely not a daily ritual, and yes, I do love the taste of beer so I am content in having one or two. I have been drunk before and I’ve been buzzed before, and my brain may be ‘functioning differently’ but I am clearly in control, I maintain enough motor skills to legally drive, and I am certainly not ‘high.’ Ask the same of someone who just smoked some marijuana.
 
True, but what is wrong with that, if a person maintains their reason and health? A person could have a couple of hard drinks instead of the 2 beers you described that be perfectly fine, morally. Furthermore they could have the intent of getting “buzzed”(not drunk) of that amount of alcohol, that be perfectly fine as well. The idea having your mind affected by alcohol or marijuana of isn’t immoral. The bible even condones alcohol, in moderation, to “make glad the heart of man.”
Keep in mind I’m not trying to dish out a red herring, by discussing alcohol, but I am trying to point out that the idea of using a substance like marijuana or alcohol to make you more joyful isn’t immoral. Providing, as I said before, that a person doesn’t become addicted to that joy(uses in moderation), and respects their health(which should be a problem if they use in moderation).
But being ‘high’ means that someone no longer has control over their reason - their impulses, judgments, and wants/cravings are all altered based on this. I guess it comes down to the point where your level of drunkeness becomes ‘drinking in excess.’ If you go by ‘feeling’ instead of volume consumed, it’s a subjective scale, but with marijuana, it’s all or nothing. Also, has their ever been a study on the cancerous effects of smoking marijuana? And let’s not forget the long-term mental issues (i.e. memory loss - I had a friend who couldn’t remember his mother’s first name for 3 days, and as funny as it may sound, it is tragically not funny).
Have you every heard of a person going straight to heroin without using alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, chocolate(theobromine)? I hardly believe it was the marijuana that made your friends try harder drugs, rather marijuana was the first illegal drug they tried. The fact that marijuana is illegal probably helped give them connections to harder drugs as well I suppose.
Seriously? Tobacco/nicotine and alcohol, absolutely could play a role in someone going to marijuana or other drugs, but the other examples are a bit out there, namely because you can’t get ‘high’ off of them. You may get ‘wired’ by knocking back a triple shot of espresso, but you’re still capable of driving. And it doesn’t matter about what leads up to that point - my point was that marijuana is the first step to other drugs. Again, not saying everyone makes that step, and I’ll estimate that probably less than 10% of all people who try marijuana have tried something ‘harder’, but I’d be willing to bet that less than 1% of people who have tried ‘hard drugs’ haven’t tried marijuana first.

As for your argument about getting ‘harder drugs’ from their dealers in search of a better high, what then would stop the government from legalizing cocaine? It shares the same chemical ‘backbone’ as aderol, which is legally prescribed. It is addictive, but so are caffeine and nicotine. And I’m told that it’s effects are shorter than those of marijuana (depending on amount used) and even stays in your system shorter periods of time.
I agree. Though I will say some are more predisposed to this than others.Depends how motivated a person is in life. If their life is like feather in the wind, no consistent direction, then the potential for smoking marijuana on frequent basis is more likely. However, if they are motivated towards a career or some other goal in life, generally, they’re less likely to smoke on a frequent basis.
I have friends who smoked quite frequently in college and some thereafter (and tried ‘harder drugs’ on several occasions). One is now a doctor, another a lawyer, and others are young professionals in various fields. They were motivated, they had direction, they attended good schools, but they liked to get high, so they did on a daily (or multiple times a day) basis. I do not disagree that some people are predisposed, and I feel it’s a combination of parental attitude (especially towards alcohol use), environment, and peer pressure (as corny as that sounds, it does play some part).

Saying that people who smoke frequently are ‘pre-disposed’ to it is like saying the same thing to an alcoholic after they become addicted. It is easy to claim that after the fact, but maybe their predisposition is as simple as ‘I like to get high, I haven’t been caught by parents or police, and I can still make it to my classes and get my homework done (if I feel like it).’
 
I was a stoner.

So the B.S. doesn’t fly with me that pot isn’t a gateway drug, that pot isn’t addictive, that pot doesn’t impair decision making skills, that pot doesn’t impair reaction time, etc.

As usual, those with addictive needs, will lie to themselves and to others to ensure that their compulsive behaviors will be satisfied.

Pray about it, and get some help. Reality - life in the now - is not as difficult a place as you believe it to be. Place your trust in God and relearn how to adapt to situations that otherwise overtake you. Situations which are leading you toward drug use and abuse.
 
Tobacco cigarettes are addictive, too…
Yes, but cigarrettes can’t make one high in 5 minutes so one can get stoned on one’s lunch break, then drive a car and kill people in the middle of the day, as has already happened many times. It’s too bad the bigoted media continues to soft report stories that fail their agenda.

The U.S. has evolved from large families who struggled to survive, to having the means and free will to spoil ourselves with gluttonous immediate gratification. If we have the means and the free will to choose softer living and more and more selfish pleasure, why would we ever choose harder living and less pleasure unless we could SEE the need to stay strong? If one has a positive experience with MJ, then it’s only logical to try harder drugs in the hopes of having a more positive experience. As the Bible says, “the last shall become first and the first shall become last.” Maybe I should just stop trying so hard to fight prophecy and start searching for a new country. If only the rest of the world could realize that there are a few million well-educated conservative romantics remaining who are shopping for a new country of residence and are willing to learn a new language if we had a new place to go once this ship sinks a few years down the road if people refuse to see.

And Barb, thank you for your brave stories.
 
Okay, I will start with the idea that pot is a bad thing and gov’t should do something about it. I’ve never denied either except during my “libertarian period” which, grant me, lots of folks go thru.

But what should gov’t do? A what level? Punishment or rehab?
For those who revere federalism beware that the Food and Drug Act did more violence to the concept than previous and set the stage for a lot since. It reached the Federal gov’t into citizens’ homes and medicines’ cabinets for the first time.

Exceptions have been carved out of the Bill of Rights: esp. the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7 8th, which original idea was to give prosecutors “tools” (more like weapons) for the War on Drugs but these new doctrines have lasting impacts.
One particularly noxious innovation is “civil forfeiture” which allows police to seize private property alleged to be involved with drugs but without getting proof or a conviction. Some states have tried to cut down on this abouse but the Feds have come up with a scam that lets them “adopt” the forfeiture and then kick most of the money back to the local police or sheriffs who did the original seizure.

Sorry to keep ranting. Suffice to say; I think the Federal involvement and the “War on Drugs” has been a disaster.
No, I have no I died what the solution is but I did like to see the states take a crack at it.
 
Yes, but cigarrettes can’t make one high in 5 minutes so one can get stoned on one’s lunch break, then drive a car and kill people in the middle of the day, as has already happened many times. It’s too bad the bigoted media continues to soft report stories that fail their agenda.

The U.S. has evolved from large families who struggled to survive, to having the means and free will to spoil ourselves with gluttonous immediate gratification. If we have the means and the free will to choose softer living and more and more selfish pleasure, why would we ever choose harder living and less pleasure unless we could SEE the need to stay strong? If one has a positive experience with MJ, then it’s only logical to try harder drugs in the hopes of having a more positive experience. As the Bible says, “the last shall become first and the first shall become last.” Maybe I should just stop trying so hard to fight prophecy and start searching for a new country. If only the rest of the world could realize that there are a few million well-educated conservative romantics remaining who are shopping for a new country of residence and are willing to learn a new language if we had a new place to go once this ship sinks a few years down the road if people refuse to see.

And Barb, thank you for your brave stories.
I don’t know about where you live, but I rarely ever heard of high-and-driving accident cases here. Most, MOST, cases of road accidents while driving involve ALCOHOL. Would you like to go back to the times of Alcohol Prohibition where the mafias were rampant? Oh wait, the gangs are doing that in this modern time of Prohibition, too.

If anything, high drivers tend to drive reaaaallly sloooowly and annoying…
 
I don’t know about where you live, but I rarely ever heard of high-and-driving accident cases here. Most, MOST, cases of road accidents while driving involve ALCOHOL. Would you like to go back to the times of Alcohol Prohibition where the mafias were rampant? Oh wait, the gangs are doing that in this modern time of Prohibition, too.

If anything, high drivers tend to drive reaaaallly sloooowly and annoying…
Like you and others have said, reaction times are slower. If you haven’t heard the media report several cases of high driving in LA, then there’s your proof that your media is bigoted. There’s a whole website dedicated to how many people have been killed by high profile celebs who were driving under the influence. Do you really want to claim that most of them were “only” drinking? How many of these auto deaths in general do you honestly believe get blamed on drunk driving when there was far more in the person’s body? Are you naieve?

I have mixed feelings on the subject of the war on drugs. I was driving through Ohio once when I noticed that “real” fireworks are legal to buy there, but not to shoot them off. Since I was from a state where it was legal to export them to my state, I could buy them in Ohio, though not allowed to shoot them off in Ohio, perfectly legal to export them to my state, yet illegal to shoot them off in my state. This might seem like a hypocrisy, but it makes money for Ohio, illegal to shoot them off in my state, but no one seems to care if it’s around the 4th of July or one is far out in the country with less chance of hurting or disturbing others.
 
Well let me put it more bluntly - people smoke marijuana to get high, and any who argues otherwise is full of it. Beer tastes good. It doesn’t make you ‘hack and cough’ if it’s really good, it just tastes good, so I’ll have one or two after a hard day at work or watching my Skins play on Sunday. There is that control. I’ll agree that some strains of marijuana are more potent than others, but the effect is the same. You may only want to get a little bit high, but the whole purpose is reaching that level. I can have a beer or two and not feel the effects, but with marijuana, the intent is to get high, to get those effects.
Smoking is just one way of using marijuana, there are other less cough inducing methods.
 
Smoking is just one way of using marijuana, there are other less cough inducing methods.
Such as…? I think it is safe to say that marijuana is most frequently smoked - and aside from a couple TV episodes or movie clips where “Mom grabbed the wrong tray of brownies - she took the ‘special’ ones”, marijuana is most commonly depicted in the media as being smoked. Therefore, I think my point about smoking is legitimate.

But regardless of that, the main focus of my response you quoted was that beer drinkers often consume for the taste (although some do use it for the buzz or drunkeness), but people use marijuana solely to get high - there is no group fighting for pot because ‘it tastes good.’
 
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